Whoops!
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Posts posted by Whoops!
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Even when warned, some people can’t help but make underhanded remarks. A lot of people.
This is a dangerous sport and new people should be familiar with the safety rules.
But I understand why new people don’t understand every page of such a huge and convoluted rule book - especially when it doesn’t break down differences in unloaded vs loaded.
All of us had people who helped us when we were new.
Pass it on.
No one here is completely right and some humility is warranted.
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Sig came through and replaced mine at no charge to me, just received it today. Great customer service on their part.
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On 11/27/2020 at 11:11 PM, mitommy said:
I’m looking to better my splits. I think short stroking is the answer, but I’m not sure what I need to do to short stroke my PCC.
I have a PSA lower (no LRBHO), a Taccom 3 stage buffer, Taccom ULW barrel, trigger is a Giessele G2S (it’s what I had on the shelf and very similar to what I run on my AR15). I run the Standard Taccom bolt. I see the ESS bolt is on sale. Is that all I need to swap to make this rifle short stroke?
Any thoughts or point me in a direction.
thsnks
Great info on short stroking, but I think the point of this is notable.
if you want to better your splits - get a different trigger with a shorter and more responsive reset.
The CMC’s work very well in their PCC variant and are measured below 3 pounds in most cases. Some people have had durability issues - I think CMC’s method of not EDMing leads to inconsistent metal preparation in terms of stresses. Might be able to cryogenically treat the components for more consistency . . .
I agree with zzt in stroke length with a 16” barrel and traditional barrel.
With a shorter barrel, big comp, and hydraulic buffer it’s possible to use the minimum travel stroke effectively, but it’s not going to lead to being notably quicker on your G2S with how long its reset is compared to the true competition triggers.
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1 hour ago, NOSHMJ said:
What exactly is the gun doing? What type of malfunctions?
This.The wobble you’re illustrating in the barrel most likely won’t cause failures besides possibly premature wear on the barrel lugs and slide.
But on a side note, and STI has been notorious for this, they didn’t put a proper gap between your slide and comp. one of them will crack if fired a good bit.
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It’s the stroke!
Lock-up are similar. Constructions are similar.The slide on the 2011 travels almost half an inch further before it impacts the frame.
The shorter stroke on the CZ makes for a more violent and less controllable feel.
Also, lesser impact but still notable, the weight in the slide that’s moving is higher on the cz.
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Yeah, that’s a pretty normal setup. I think you’ll be happier with that than just the slots over the last inch. It’ll probably take off somewhere in the vicinity of 100 fps from your 9mm ammo (with a middle to slow burn powder and 1/8” holes).
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5 hours ago, zzt said:
Barrel ports do one thing. They reduce muzzle rise. If that is all you are looking for, go ahead. Slit ports are not as effective as circular. Rather than what you propose, I'd go with a V4 configuration with 5/32" or 3/16" holes.
If you are looking for a reduction in felt recoil, barrel ports will do nothing. An efficient comp dramatically reduces felt recoil and also reduces muzzle rise somewhat.
If you want flat and soft at the same time you have to have enough case capacity to achieve that. 9mm won't cut it. You can have flat, or soft, but not both at the same time. You simply cannot get enough powder in the case to 'work' the ports and comp. 38 Super, 40 S&W let you do that. 45 ACP works with max loads, but not as well as the previous two.
The material being worked against is what does more to counteract the recoil.
It’s all physics and vectors.
A port alone on top of the barrel will cause the higher pressure gas left in the barrel to be on the bottom of the barrel (pushing down, counter-acting muzzle flip).
The metal that is pushed forward on while that gas is escaping, the forward force, is what will counter act the backwards recoil.
So, the slots in the top of the barrel, just like a compensator, are some of the most efficient you can get. If they aren’t doing what you want, they should be wider to allow more gas to escape (but be careful about shaving bullets - bearing surface relative to the weight of bullet traveling down the bore - there is a point at which very bad things can start to happen).
The only time a circular port would be noticeably more effective is if it is nozzle shaped and working against enough material to make it do what you want to do against the recoil (like in the Schuemann/SVI design) - a vector where slots would normally have an advantage.
A vector where a comp would have the most advantage.
It’s all a trade off.
Magnaport, with their long but narrow design, is a good design for reducing flip in a standard barrel - which comes to another point -
If you are stuck with a standard barrel diameter and are not willing to put a comp on it - maybe forget about backwards recoil, as stated, and do something like a quad magnaport design to keep all of the high pressure on the bottom of the barrel.
It gets a lot deeper than this when referencing Eric’s points.
We know from flow dynamics that we want to make the most efficient use of the gas we have available.
Bleed off only as much as you need to get the desired effect at each port / baffle.
There is a minimum pressure needed for a port or baffle to make a noticeable difference counter acting recoil.
If you don’t have enough surface area for recoil reduction to make the most effective use of the cartridge’s available gas - then you may notice a benefit from having larger ports first.
But, if we have an unlimited area to work with - such as with the Binary Engineering comp - then the gas can most effectively be used with the larger ports coming last.
Clear as mud?
. It’s long enough where I don’t even feel like rereading the last half of it.
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I’m going to go deeper with this than you probably want to hear.
In a standard barrel, such as the one pictured, ports alone aren’t going to do you much good.
The ports you have pictured are some of the best you can hope for in that design, but, there is little potential material for them to work against.
One of the main benefits of ports is the material that is pushed against by the escaping gas.
Think of the bore of a compensator as a port and the baffles as the material that is worked against.
In a standard barrel such as the one you have pictured, there isn’t much material for the gas to work against.
Bull or cone type barrels will give the ports a much larger effective area to act against.
In the case of the standard barrel, I would always have it threaded and put on as big a comp as possible.
With bull or cone barrels, lots of ports and a big comp.
The ports should be smaller the closer they are to the chamber. Larger the further away. This equalizes the amount of pressure placed on each port - makes for more even wear and more effective use of gases.
All to say, the ports you have pictured are fine - but they aren’t effective enough to where I’d want them - if that makes sense.
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On 11/24/2020 at 5:16 PM, AcePrater said:
Tried a couple more mags this past weekend. Comp spun more out of time. took it back to the smith. will add another set screw and see how that rolls.
Made my first pistol grip with local walnut. looks like a beaver chewed it for now, but feels ohh so right in the hand.
Set screws really don’t work well. When I use a set screw, I also use a big automatic center punch where I want the screw to stay. May also want to try some Hot Lock, which is a relatively new 1600 degree glue.Pin is the way to go though.
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28 minutes ago, csailer said:
Hi Oded,
I think a thumb rest is very important for my grip style and minimizing recoil. It also adds a solid level of consistency for thumb placement.
1) Consistency/thumb placement. Good grip is essential. Having the same grip every time is essential. Various pressure in odd spots creates an unpredictable (not just straight up and straight down dot) which leads to poor results. Having a spot to hit like the pedal has helped me a bunch.
2) Locking the wrist/thumb. The goal of the thumb pedal isn't to push down on the pedal. That is bad. Contrary to silly youtube "shooting professionals".....you do NOT push down on the gun. You let the gun do it's thing. It's going to recoil. Don't push down....you can't time your shots to push down at the right time. Let the gun recoil, but lock your left wrist and put pressure in the right spots and it won't recoil much....but you're not fighting the gun down. Thus, with a thumb rest, don't push down. This is why people who don't train run into troubles with it. Instead, you use it to aid in locking your wrist.
Get a slo mo of the gun, wrist, etc with and without a *thumb rest [generic]*. See what the dot does with either.
Good luck!
Glad the top open guy chimed in. I agree with him.
I’ll add that Grauffel teaches pushing forward on the thumb rest - toward the muzzle. Prevents the user from pressing down as Christian described.
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Check the link above for all of the info for stroking the slide. Find a good gunsmith to do the work.The SRO doesn’t use ambient light, but it’s a lot better for competition because it’s brighter and uses a larger window. I really like the 5 moa.
I only have my Domina with me right now, but here are some pics.
The Trijicon RMR mount is better than the RTS2 mount because it doesn’t cover as much of the ejection port.
Yes, Taylor Freelance components with Mec Gar mags.
I am using the stock base pads because they are more reliable than any aftermarket base pads - albeit at capacity cost.
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I’ve got the hookup for you. Just put down a 98.5% classifier with a Tanfoglio today.
To make it reliable - you have to stroke the slide. I did mine a third of an inch. JJ Racaza and Grauffel did theirs 9mm. Patriot Defense recommends .25 - it’s more plug and play for the general public. If you do a third of an inch like I did, you might have to polish parts of the slide or barrel to keep it from hanging when the slide is pulled back.
Put in an extra power extractor spring.
I’ve used every mount and red dot combo available for the Tanfo in the US.
I prefer the IPSCAlex mount for the RMR with a Trijicon SRO mounted.
Unica Trigger Parts everywhere but the sear - Xtreme sear.
Like any open gun - the slower the powder, the better. Work up your own loads depending on caliber with the slowest powder that people have reported to make major - pretty easy.
This was never a goto gun for open division.
But, Eric Grauffel has beaten a ton of people shooting it.
It’s biggest advantage is its light weight - especially at the muzzle.
That means it’s not very sensitive to dipping with a moderate recoil spring and it’s very easy to run n gun with.
That makes it a great gun for IPSC, which tends to have longer, more movement oriented stages than USPSA.
But, for speed strings or stand and deliver action - a well tuned Domina or 2011 will deliver less muzzle flip.
For the 170mm - I use a Taylor Freelance extension with the Mecgar tubes.
The factory Tanfoglio 170’s suck.
Taylor Freelance for the 140 extensions too.
Polish the mags.
I took the factory barrel and modified it to have about the same recoil characteristics as the v12 barrel but with less powder required.
Bigger ports, but closer to the end of the barrel. Works well.
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I read through the other topic and didn’t see a simple enough answer that I liked.
The dustcover on the front of the slide is what impacts the frame and stops the slide’s travel.In most cases, stroking is when the part of the dustcover that hits the frame is shortened (like by cutting the dustcover where the red line indicates in the picture).
This allows the slide to travel further before it hits the frame.
Where as previously the slide may have traveled 2 inches when pulled back - after stroking it may travel 2.3 inches.
This does several things.
Allows the recoil spring to be used for a longer period of time before the slide bottoms out.
Gives more time for the magazine to properly position the next round.
Gives more time for the spent brass to be ejected.
Potential Drawbacks:
Time out of battery will be longer.
If cut too far, recoil springs may bind before the slide bottoms out. If binding, recoil springs either need to be cut or a new slide needs to be purchased and a shorter stroke completed.
If cut too far, the slide might hang up on the barrel near the rear of the travel. I haven’t seen a gun this happened to that I couldn’t fix by polishing a select angle on either the slide or barrel or both.
Personally, I will not compete with an unstroked gun. They just aren’t as reliable and they aren’t as straight up and down in recoil as stroked guns are.
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Update:
Extractor spring became too weak - ended up cutting one coil off an extra power extractor spring and putting it in there.
EAA won’t sell spare barrels or comps - even though spare comps can be bought through Patriot Defense. I wanted an extra barrel so I could also shoot 38 super - no go. I asked about replacement barrels and they said I would have to send the whole gun in and could only have the barrel replaced.
This isn’t the first issue I’ve had with EAA - from grip stickers on Xtremes, to Gold Teams not working from the factory and having to be stroked, to barrel timing issues causing peening.
It would be nice if IFG started selling open Tanfos.I’m still waiting on my camera lady so I can make a comparison video - but it’s not going to be a stock comparison. I ended up porting my Domina because I needed just a tad more recoil control to keep .1 and under splits on target.
I also hard chromed it because the Cerakote from the factory scratched way too easily.
Also, on all my extra wide safety Tanfos - I changed the safeties to normal wide like those found on the Stock II. I noticed a proper high grip would bump the safety a little too much on 9 major recoil - causing the trigger pull to be a lot heavier.
Forgot to mention - I’m getting really good at hammering Tanfo frames in order to tighten slide to frame fit. I do the frame instead of the slide because then only the lock-up part of slide travel is tight as opposed to the whole slide travel. Done correctly, and with a ton of whacks like a Samurai sword, it holds tight, slides smooth, and lasts a while.
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On 11/2/2020 at 1:29 PM, Joe4d said:
been tried a few times over the years. It doesnt work out so well, parts gouge eachother. Not worth the tooling cost. Especially for frames that can be made of polymer with steel inserts.
This.
Yes, lighter slide = better when setup correctly for the same reason everyone wants the lightest bolt in an ar.I’m not sure why a lot of smiths set a lower weight limit of 10 ozs for cut 1911 slides - I think it was just to compensate for poor post preparation of material or perceived “harshness” - I would like to see a super light slide that is re heat treated after being cut and then cryogenically treated.
Titanium has been tried so many times.
The grades of titanium that have been tried just weren’t good enough. There are newer grades of super metals (even in the category of titanium) that haven’t been tried and that would probably work - but I’m not able to put out specific suggestions.
It would be cool to see how a functioning and reliable 5 oz slide feels to shoot. Let me know if you are able to figure it out.
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32 minutes ago, B_RAD said:
So, I want to be careful on how and what I say. For a couple of reasons. First, it's easy to criticize when you're spectating. Meaning not out there working. Monday morning quarterback. Second, it's difficult to get across true thoughts and feelings thru text. Lastly, I'm still new and inexperienced with USPSA and nats. This was my 4th year and my 2nd Nats. That may be why I feel the way I do about things. I may not know any better?
Saying all that, I'll give my thoughts.
I think Nationals should be a bigger deal than any other match. That means stage design/quality, prizes, trophies, atmosphere. It's easy to say "XYZ needs to be better at Nats" but not offer how or why. I'm worried I may be guilty of this a little. Some just want to be critical to be critical. I'm trying not to do that. So, back to what I was saying. If you're gonna offer trophies and prizes, I'd like to see them be a big deal. What's a "big deal"? Yeah, that's based on opinions.
Look at the prizes and the trophies given out over all the national matches. Were they equal in quality or value? If not, why? Are some divisions looked at more favorably or as more important than the others? Why?
I think most would agree that match quality, stage design is most important for any match. Prizes are cool but we all know that any prizes won is won at a deficit, but we see a lot of shooters enjoy getting something really big/expensive. Nobody cares about winning a cleaning kit but just about everyone wants to win a gun!
Trophies are another interesting issue. A lot of people say they don't care and maybe they don't, but a lot of people do! If you win a trophy that says you were the best shooter at the national level, wouldn't you want it to be an indication of that achievement?
I thought the match itself was good! I had a great time. I'm not dissing the prizes table or the trophies either. Just thinking out loud.
Exactly.
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Yeah, I have to wonder how much of that is USPSA’s choice and how much is the sponsor’s choice.
With the way the contract is currently written, the sponsors are just responsible for x worth.
So if x worth is 1 Czechmate or 5 CZ 75’s, it’s more the sponsor’s choice.
But...Still think it would majorly be worth it for USPSA to kick in their own revenue to make the top 3 prizes much more worthwhile as opposed to cheaping out and relying on donated prizes.
Especially considering how much time and money the top 3 have dedicated to the sport in order to get that position.
It would be a smart investment on USPSA’s part.
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12 hours ago, B_RAD said:
I was asking?
I got a $1,000 Blue bullets cert! Which I'm pretty stoked about!
Then I think it probably did. Just found out JJ got a Auto Ordnance Tommy Gun for 2nd Open. -
What did you get for 2nd?
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Okeedoke, I’ll find the stuff after I get back from JJ’s class tomorrow. Should have it posted tomorrow evening.
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23 minutes ago, Kokeman said:
Thanks for the input guys but a 2011 is not in the budget for a few years. (2 kids in college) Besides I have a long way to go before I need to worry about the competitive advantage of a 2011 over a Glock. I have most parts to build the P80 Glock. All I need is a trigger and make a sight mount, weight, magwell and thumbrest.
I have some used parts that you might want.
if you want I can take some pictures and post them in the classifieds.
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No one said Glocks were equals.
There’s one 2011 company in your area that you have a lot of exposure to and experience with.And don’t get me wrong, that’s not a bad thing. I wish I had people as devoted as you to anything I made.
But
It’s not magic to make an open Glock reliable.
I’ve had 3 actually. I’ve also had a reliable M&P open gun, multiple 2011’s, and Tanfoglios that nobody else could make run.
The performance difference between all of them at a major match with a great shooter would be less than 10%.
The Tanfoglios took me the longest to make match ready, but they are.
I’ve named the detriments to the Glocks, but make no mistake, a good shooter could win with them and has won with them - all day long.
Most of them aren’t setup ideally - but with a Glock - just put on the fattest comp you can and then add porting as needed. I’ve never found an overcomped Glock since the comps are all lightweight and they flip so much. -
Right, Glocks can only win every other Nationals and 98% “can’t win” and it’s my responsibility to prove otherwise.
43 years of how many competitors shooting Glocks? They can’t win if they don’t try.
In my experience, those involved with 2011 building companies take the hardest line on this stance. Everyone do some research before following advice.
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55 minutes ago, RJH said:
Except glock in open in USPSA apparently......
Glock open major reliability is not an actual thing, well maybe 40 major is reliable, but no one does that at the highest levels for a reason. Kinda like no one wins with glocks in open at the highest levels for a reason. I have never seen a glock 9 major gun run for any amount of time reliably. Pretty sure that is why KC went back to shooting 2011s in open, he got tired of the glock crapping out
My Glock open gun was reliable. So was KC’s in 2013. Area matches are the highest level, parallel to Nationals - Level III matches.98% at Nationals?
Would everyone rather shoot a 2011 and most likely do better with it? Yes, of course.
But it can definitely be done. Part of the way to do it is a 13 pound recoil spring.
One mike/noshoot away from one of the most competitive titles out there. I definitely wouldn’t say it can’t be done.
DQ or not?
in Match Screw-ups
Posted
https://uspsa.org/viewer/2020-USPSA-Competition-Rules.pdf
We have this 122 page one.
https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/IDPA-Rulebook-2017.pdf
And this 41 pager.
https://www.3gunnation.com/wp-content/uploads/3GN-RULES-FEB-2019.pdf
And 3 gun nation fits all of their stuff into 29.
And many new people to our sport are used to going to the golf course and needing to know when to yell “four.” Or going to a shooting range and needing to know a list of 9 rules.
Complexities in scoring, divisions, etc. are all tradeoffs taken away from the safety front.
The people designing the books shouldn’t expect new people to understand them after they get past ten pages.
The same way that none of us understand them, even the ones making them, as evidenced by incorrect questions on the RO exams.
Human Factors says to create a new book, in addition to the professional sports league sized ones we have.
Something titled “Must know Safety for Newcomers,” or something along those lines.