capdek

Good points on the power factor variations! I'll try 9.3 grains which should put me up around 1360 fps or a 170 PF. Thanks! DEK

Well, as everyone expected, the problem was with my distance from the chrono. I went out to the range today and set the chrono up about 20 feet away. I loaded up a couple of 7.5 grain loads (just in case) and got readings of 1160 and 1164 fps. Then I tried the 8.6 grain rounds and got 1282 and 1276 fps. Went up from there in .2 grain increments until I hit 9.2 grains with readings of 1337, 1336, 1343, 1355 and 1340 fps which averages to 1342.2 fps - perfect! So using a 125 grain bullet, I should be good to go at 9.2 to maybe 9.3 grains of the 3N38. And let me tell you, this is a great powder! The gun barely moves and it even cleans out my comp. Thanks to all of you who posted for helping me work through this. I owe you all a big debt of gratitude! DEK

So I went to see if I could find those 2 pieces of brass at lunch, but hard as I tried, I couldn't locate them. :-( It's pretty obvious the consensus here is to suspect the chrono and not a labeling issue. And I would have to think suppliers would take their product labeling process pretty seriously given the possible litigation issues that could arise if something really bad was to happen to an end user that followed their loading guidelines. I was pretty close to the chrono - about 6 feet away - and perhaps it was picking up some of the muzzle blast as has been suggested. I will give it a try again with the chrono about 12 feet away and see if that makes a difference. I'll also make sure to catch the brass so I can check it for high pressure signs. One thing I can say for sure, there was practically no muzzle flip and very little felt recoil with that powder. True, it was pretty darn loud, but I normally use plugs and muffs when I compete. If this does turn out to be a chrono issue, I will have found a superb load with this powder! Thanks everyone for the help. I sure do appreciate it! DEK

I am going to take a side trip to the range this morning on my way to work and check those two rounds. I'm pretty sure they'll still be where I would expect them to be. If I see super flattened primers or noticeable case bulge, that may confirm what the chrono is telling me. If not, then it is probably a setup issue with the chrono. I really do hope it's an issue with the chrono. I'll post back what I found when I get home later this evening. Thanks for the good advice everyone!

Yea, I should have checked the brass for signs of high pressure, but I didn't think. I was so shocked by the results I just packed up and went home in utter disbelief! I can say there was minimal if any muzzle flip and the recoil didn't feel all that bad, but you could sure hear the damn thing when it went off! I have used that chrono pretty recently to test a few other loads I've worked up - 7.4 grains of Vit N350 at ~1330 fps and 6.9 grains of IMR 7625 again at ~1330 fps, and I'm pretty sure I set the chrono up the same this time as these other two times, so it seems unlikely the issue was with the chrono. From what I'm hearing, you guys would agree that this is way out-of-line for 3N38 and my round configuration, assuming that the chrono was working properly. I guess I could try one more round just to make sure if you think it's safe to be pushing those velocity limits. Assuming these results are indeed accurate, do you think I should contact Vihta Vouri and/or Powder Valley about this? Thanks. DEK

I recently put a new barrel with integral 5 port comp in my .38 super STI open gun and am trying some new loads. I decided to give the Vihta Vouri 3N38 powder a try. I use a 125 grain Zero FMJ bullet in a Starline .38 Supercomp case with Winchester small rifle primers and an OAL of 1.245". Based on my research, I decided to start with 8.6 grains of the 3N38, and loaded up some additional rounds with 8.8, 9.0, 9.2 and 9.4 grains of the 3N38. I went to the range with the chrono, and tested one of the 8.6 grain rounds. I couldn't believe my eyes when the chrono read 1818 fps! I wondered if this was a mistake so I tried one more 8.6 grain round and it read 1813 fps! So this was no fluke. With those kind of velocities coming out of the light loads, I figured I better pack-up and go home before I run into serious trouble! I pulled the 8.6 grain bullets when I got home to double check the powder weights and they were exactly 8.6 grains. I can't figure this out. Based on the Vihta Vouri specs, with a 124 grain bullet and an OAL of 1.260", 8.0 grains of the 3N38 (starting charge) should yield 1110 fps and 9.3 grains of the 3N38 (max charge) should yield 1464 fps. But I'm getting 1800 fps with 8.6 grains, a slightly heavier bullet (125 grains versus 124 grains) and a slightly shorter OAL (1.245" versus 1.260"). Does this seem possible? I'm really wondering if the powder I got was mislabeled somehow. It is clearly a Vihta Vouri standard 4 lb. jug with the usual Vihta Vouri label and it clearly identifies it as 3N38, but I'm thinking this must be a mistake. I purchased this jug from Powder Valley out of Winfield Kansas about 2 weeks ago. This is a pretty serious issue given the incredibly high velocities I'm getting with 8.6 grains of this stuff. Does this seem possible or is it more likely this jug contains something other than 3N38? Should I contact Vihta Vouri or Powder Valley about this? I'm not sure what to make of this and I would appreciate any help or advice people could throw my way. Thanks. DEK

Thanks for the advice!

I think you should go the Saiga route and sell me that old used M2 for $800. OK But seriously, I get your drift! Are there speed-loaders available for the M2? I've only seen ones listed for the M1/M3/M4.

I've been shooting USPSA pistol matches for a number of years now, but I think I would like to try 3-gun IPSC. I have a POF P415 CQB .223 rifle and 5 30-round PMAGS that I think will work out quite well for a rifle. I also have a Benelli M2 with an 18.5" barrel and a Nordic Components +5 extension tube (so 8 in the tube + 1 in the chamber). No doubt about it - this is a nice shotgun! I've got $1200 or so invested in this gun, but I have not been able to find speed-loaders for it. Question: Does anyone know where I could find speed-loaders for the M2? I can now pick up a new Saiga 12 for $500, then spend $? to get it upgraded for 3-gun IPSC. R & R Racing in Salem, OR will do a top-end Saiga 12 limited upgrade for $1300. I'm pretty sure that's on the high-end as far as price goes, but assuming I did that, I'd have a finely-tuned Saiga 12 with a 10-round mag for $1850. In my opinion, my M2 is a much better shotgun than a stock Saiga 12, but without speed-loaders, I think I'll be seriously disadvantaged in 3-gun matches. I'm thinking an upgraded Saiga 12 would be a much better configuration for 3-gun IPSC, but I'd have to fork out up to $650 more to make the switch. Question: Would you keep the M2 in its current configuration, or sell it, get the Saiga 12 and spend the bucks to upgrade it for 3-gun? Thanks in advance for the advice! DEK