Flinching

[RifleShooter]

I experienced one of these(depending on your point of view) during my IDPA classifier a couple of weeks ago. I experienced my first failure to feed, due to a malformed case which somehow made it through the Lee FCD, and did not realize the gun was not fully in battery. When I pulled the trigger, down went the muzzle, about 3 inches, obviously in anticipation of recoil that was not present. So, do I have a flinch? Or is this post shot, since it appeared to happen just after I pressed the trigger, and I only noticed because there was no corresponding *bang*?

BTW, the nasty round locked up the gun, and it took me about 30 seconds to clear it. Would not go into battery, would not open. Nasty, nasty problem. Luckily I got to reshoot the stage, since it was the classifier. I brought the faulty round home, and checked it with the barrel to see if it would chamber. It did not. I tried it again, it did. Tried it several times, half the time it seated just fine, half the time it stopped short. Some of the time I could fully seat it with a little push, sometimes it was no go. How do I test for something like that? Sometimes it worked flawlessly, but other times not. Do I have to test every round multiple times?

Anyway, should I be concerned about the 'flinch/anticipated recoil/whatever'? I *think* I am doing it post shot break, but I am sure if I had dummy rounds in the gun, it would show up every time I got to one. Does that make it a flinch, or not?

Arnie

[Gary Johnson]

Some of the time I could fully seat it with a little push, sometimes it was no go. How do I test for something like that? Sometimes it worked flawlessly, but other times not. Do I have to test every round multiple times?

I run every round through a chamber gage, especially reloads.

Anyway, should I be concerned about the 'flinch/anticipated recoil/whatever'? I *think* I am doing it post shot break, but I am sure if I had dummy rounds in the gun, it would show up every time I got to one. Does that make it a flinch, or not?

Arnie

Everyone does this, some more than others. If you want to shoot fast, you have to get the muzzle down as quickly as possible.

If you do it before/during the shot it's bad. If you do it after the shot it's recoil management. The trick is figuring out which side you're on.

The best method I've seen for catching this is to have a buddy load your mags with a dummy here and there. Run a mock course of fire against the clock. When the dummies come up you will be running on autopilot and your buddy will see how far you dip the muzzle. You might notice it too but it is much more pronounced when viewed from the side.

If you don't have dummy rounds, try disabling the slide stop (hold it down with your thumb) and loading each mag with a random number of rounds. Don't count shots, let the gun run dry, and watch what happens when you drop the hammer on an empty chamber.

I don't know of any way to measure your counter-recoil reflex. Bottom line IMHO, if it causes you to miss it's a problem. No miss, no problem.

[andrewcolglazier]

The issue of "timing the gun" vs. "flinch" comes up all the time. The remedy of loading a magazine or a cylinder with dummy rounds or snap caps is very often suggested as a fix. Most shooters are of the opinion that muzzle movement caused by timing the gun is a bad thing, and the snap caps come out of the junk drawer. I think this is a waste of time.

In some shooting games such as slow fire handgun or bullseye, follow-through is an important part of the technique. There, where recoil is present but emphasis is placed on firing one shot at a time, slowly, any kind of non-recoil related muzzle movement is a bad thing.

In action pistol games where rapid fire is the norm, the body learns to deal with recoil in a totally different way.

Jerry Miculek told me once that he learned to shoot so fast so he could "outrun his flinch". It's generally when we slow our shooting cadance down that the subconscious muzzle management most of us do becomes evident.

How many times have you seen a shooter prepare to break a shot, not like the sight picture for whatever reason, and their muzzle dips slightly just before they fire? Their brain told their trigger finger "Stop!", but their body was still ready for the recoil.

This is very, very common in shooters of all levels. If you are not having accuracy problems, I say leave well enough alone.

Andy C.

[Mick]

The issue of "timing the gun" vs. "flinch" comes up all the time. The remedy of loading a magazine or a cylinder with dummy rounds or snap caps is very often suggested as a fix. Most shooters are of the opinion that muzzle movement caused by timing the gun is a bad thing, and the snap caps come out of the junk drawer. I think this is a waste of time.

In some shooting games such as slow fire handgun or bullseye, follow-through is an important part of the technique. There, where recoil is present but emphasis is placed on firing one shot at a time, slowly, any kind of non-recoil related muzzle movement is a bad thing.

In action pistol games where rapid fire is the norm, the body learns to deal with recoil in a totally different way.

Jerry Miculek told me once that he learned to shoot so fast so he could "outrun his flinch". It's generally when we slow our shooting cadance down that the subconscious muzzle management most of us do becomes evident.

How many times have you seen a shooter prepare to break a shot, not like the sight picture for whatever reason, and their muzzle dips slightly just before they fire? Their brain told their trigger finger "Stop!", but their body was still ready for the recoil.

This is very, very common in shooters of all levels. If you are not having accuracy problems, I say leave well enough alone.

Andy C.

I regulary use the "ball & dummy" drill with my PD academy students to get rid of "anticipation" problems they develop. The newer folks just can't get it through their mind that a bunch of that push is mental. I get them to do Bill drills when I get a chance followed up with B&D. Often we do B&D at 15 yards with BDs at 7 back to back repeatedly until the finger catches a clue on a constant albeit different speed, trigger pull. I do have a hard time with other instructors wanting to spend the time and the ammo on these drills but then they have never seen what it can do for them. I now bring in movies of matches to show what it can accomplish. Want to see me push the gun to counter recoil but not anticipation?

Throw a dummy round in my mag for Bill Drills. The gun does NOT dip but the counter recoil force is definitely there. How else can you learn to "drive" the gun!?

I shoot a 2# trigger, give me a 5# 1911 and watch me push!!!

Mick

[andrewcolglazier]

Mick, I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, but it seems to me that true, negative flinching can be seen both by watching the shooter, and it shows up on the target in the form of inaccuracy. The snap cap thing, IMO, won't reveal negative flinching, but rather the shooting controlling recoil which normally doesn't effect accuracy.

So, why use them?

Andy C.