Universal Clays W/ 115 Meister 9mm

[nvmichael]

Just for range and target I have been using AA5 and have had very good results with it

(9MM, 5.8gr AA5 with 115gr Meister LRN).

But, I just had to try Hodgdons Universal Clays. I heard some good things about here. Same bullet with 4.4grs gives me OK results. I seem to have a larger group (probably me).

It does seem to leave me with a clean gun.

The good people on Brian's Forum have recommended (straight) Clays for the 1911 45auto and it has been the best powder I have used. Everything they said it would be.

Any suggestions with this powder??? (Universal Clays)

Thank You

[Carlos]

Michael wrote: "Just for range and target" and . . . I seem to have a larger group"

- you do not mention competition - where you would need to meet the 125 Power Factor for USPSA or 125,000 floor for IDPA. Sounds like you are just shooting at the range.

If so, here is what I have found to be true w/ Universal: it is sensitive to pressure and OAL. It seems to work best when you find a book load that generates the highest pressure.

IF you increase the OAL over the book-listed MINIMUM SAFE OALs (virtually all book-listed OALs are actually MINIMUMs, and NOT SUGGESTED OAL), then Universal leaves behind a lot of unburned powder and soot. The same thing tends to happen with loads that are below the maximum listed load.

If you are practicing or planning for competition, I'd suggest NOT using 115s. Rather, switch to 147s or at least 124s. If you opt to use Universal, see if there is a book load close to 127 to 130 PF but that is also close to a listed, book maximum load.

Better yet, use jacketed or plated 147s over Titegroup or V V N-320 or N330.

D.C. Johnson

[nvmichael]

Carlos, thank you for the reply and the info.

I just bought this gun and it is my first 9mm. I'm shooting it more for fun and practice.

I've been shooting for many years and load for many calibers.

I notice in some of the posts that most people use a heavier bullet.

My thinking was a lighter bullet and charge equals a lighter recoil.

I was using a 1.135 OAL. So far both powders I mentioned have left the gun fairly clean.

Thanks

Michael

[8ring]

Greetings:

The Hodgdon 2004 Annual Manual has 4.0gr as the minimum Universal load with 115gr lead round nose. 4.5gr is the maximum load. OAL is listed as 1.100" with CCI 500 primers.

I have only used Universal with 122gr. Laser Cast truncated cone lead bullets. Performance was OK but nothing remarkable. However, it did give much less smoke and leading than similar velocity loads with Titegroup.

Not to dispute Carlos, an experienced reloader, but I found Universal very clean (and relatively quiet) with both mid-range and maximum book loads under 115 and 124gr jacketed bullets. I load my 115gr at 1.145" OAL and 124gr. at 1.155" OAL. for use in my CZ.

Chris

[Carlos]

Hi Michael, you wrote: "I notice in some of the posts that most people use a heavier bullet.

My thinking was a lighter bullet and charge equals a lighter recoil."

You thought right. Hodgdon had a good article in on of their manuals stating that the only 2 ways to reduce recoil are: reduce velocity or reduce projectile weight. In 9mm, some of the lightest loads of all are loads for steel shooting using 105, 90 or even 88 grn bullets. There is no power factor, but the speeds are extreme in steel shooting.

However, if one is going for a given power factor w/ 9mm, there is a way to reduce PERCEIVED recoil: that is to use a heavy bullet at a modest speed: this produces "soft recoil" where the sights softly & predictable rise & fall right back into position. That is why we load 147s (or even heavier; a 180 grn 9mm load does exist) - sucha a load (147) only needs 850 FPS to make power factor & is increadibly soft shooting.

Anyway, a mild load with 124s or the 115s you have is certainly possible by just reducing velocity - just so long as it functions. Also, I did not mean to pan Universal; on the contrary, I think it can be a fine powder. As for cleanliness, you are using lead that w/ its wax lube, will be dirty on its own. So, the powder's "cleanliness" is no big deal. I also like th fact that you load out to 1.135" - every one of my 9mm guns runs better at that length or longer. Really nothing wrong w/ universal. If you have the chance to try out some 147s at 800 to 850 FPS sometime, give them a try & I think you will like them too. Good shooting & see you at the range.

[nvmichael]

Carlos

I was going to try a heavier bullet but its snowing here this am so I am going to put my shooting on hold for a while. I gotta find another winter sport.

Mainly I wanted to say thank for your advice.

Michael