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Posts posted by MiniUzi
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Wow...still no answer on this.Is this match even going to go on?
I found the answer.
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Looking forward to it! Thank you and all the awesome folks at the AMU for doing this!
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The notion of a new Ft Benning match is spreading on facebook faster than Rosanne Barr at an all you can eat Buffet.
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Ive been interested in a setup like this for a while.
Since it sounds like you have to run a larger gas port/opening (as compared to 18" rifle gas), how does this affect the recoil impulse in relation to the 18" bbls?
Good question.
My 18" was a stag 3G and my optimal gas was a .089
My 16" rifle gas Micro moa is .096 gas for optimal gas.
They aren't quite apples to apples in terms of configuration but I do not "feel" any difference in the impulse. Felt recoil is subjective. With that being said I'm working on another project that was spawned by my need to have actual data instead of "yo bro this shoots so flat" type range logic on evaluating the effectiveness of component changes.
This year we have the ability to actually measure the g forces, axis shift etc... accelerator and gyroscope paired with some blue tooth and an android app in a package a little bigger than a quarter. This is a prototype but it works and works well.
I hope in a few months we can have solid data on a number of components and know exactly what they do to the system from a data standpoint. Saying "it feels better" versus saying "this is 20% reduction in force on the shoulder between setting A and setting B" is where I want to be. Data is good thing.
Perhaps I'm not sensitive enough to feel the difference in the 18 to 16" variations but there is more gas with the configuration I choose to run. My setup is not "optimal gamer" . I'm running regular full auto carrier , rifle stock( luth AR) and regular buffer.
A freakishly low gas option so far that we have found is being run by team member JP Thompson. He has .082 gas setting, hyperfire 24c trigger,light carrier, JP Captured spring, Govnah gas block on the 16" rifle and I think a SJC titan break (another important factor for system pressure) . His barrel port is .101 , optimal gas is .082. You can feel the difference between full gas and his optimal gas for sure.
-Todd
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Some more food for thought in regards to the healthy system concept.
In our testing we found a few interesting things that popped up.
#1 Trigger / Hammer system in gun plays a much greater role in how much gas you need to introduce to make the system reliable. We found that the angle on the hammer of some trigger systems actually created friction on the bolt while traveling rearward . This of course caused for more gas to be introduced into the system to make it reliable. Hiperfire triggers have an interesting angle to the top of their hammer which we found allowed us to reduce the gas needed compared to other triggers.
#2 Magazines: Some of us go prone and get our magazine or a pair of coupled magazines on the ground. It's not uncommon to use a clamped pair of magazines as a monopod of sorts on long range shots. Most magazines have a little vertical movement to them.Weight on the gun while prone and resting on magazines can also increase the friction on the bolt while traveling rearward causing more gas to be needed to ensure reliability.
-Todd
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jkrispies Viable yes. Absolutely.
I'm on the Micro MOA shooting team and I've been running the 16" rifle length gas since July with the Govnah gas block. Mark CO is 100% correct it's a system and it needs to be healthy. The barrels Mico Moa uses has single edge polygonal rifling which lends itself to less bullet deformation and a tighter seal around the bullet which results in less loss of gas around the projectile giving a bit more pressure.
Some awesome rifling coupled with the Govnah gas block, which I think could be considered a long term adjustable gas block, seems to be a solid solution thus far. Due to the design of the gas block plate system we know exactly what each setting for the gas block is since the holes restricting the gas are drilled. We have four 16" rifle length guns in team members hands running a variety of adjusted port sizes for optimal gas ranging from .082 up to .096. depending on the gun configuration. The info on some of the specs is detailed here .
The main issue that seems to be pop up in these discussions is dwell time. How much gas do you get into the gas system and how long do you get it for. What does it take to push that bolt carrier back and cycle the action 100% of the time. We haven't seen issues so far that would point to any dwell time related issues. We have thousands of rounds and dozens of matches in the books with zero issues.
We did have two of our guys decide to see how far they could game their loads and they went single shot right off the bat which was to be expected. They pushed the gas plates over and went to the full gas setting and finished the course of fire (and match) without issue. We have never seen a single issue with this system running full gas. Not one.
We would like to do an objective test on a 16" rifle length barrel this year and put this argument to bed. The only remaining question we need to answer is "will the system degrade, and if so , at what point ?". So far those involved in the project say it's not going to degrade at all and although I believe them I'd prefer an outside opinion. If anyone has suggestions as to a number of rounds and method of testing to achieve this we're listening.
On a side note, if you see any of our folks running around with a Micro MOA logo on their shirt at a match, ask them for trigger time on the gun, try it for yourself. It's in their contract to hand over their blaster and share it with others. If any of you are going to the ATL versa max challenge we'll have a couple there with team members at the end of the month.
-Todd
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After being told I would have an unfair advantage if I dont post stage designs here it is. Be ready to shoot pistol strong hand weak hand and with both hands. Also be ready to shoot a teammates pistol. Rifle left handed right handed other persons rifle roll over prone upside down sideways and from various sized ports, offhand pron sitting and kneeling. Shotgun left and right handed prone through a port and upside down and rollover prone. All guns off roofs under cars over logs and from free fire zones and shooting boxes. If I missed anything let me know. Any questions?
No inverted support side prone then? Disappointing
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I have Micro Moa Govnah gasblock with SSK-Keymod one piece rail and liked it so much I somehow ended up with three uppers with the combination. The gas block is great since you just use the head of a bullet to change the gas settings .
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I had a great time at the match and thought that was the best bunch of shooters having the most fun possible in the worst weather imaginable on Friday. I've added a new term to my vocabulary after Tommy Thacker got done with his run on Stage 2. He held the gun together for his last two shots which was a technique I've not seen before . He had apparently damaged the shotgun on a previous stage and then had some issues on Stage 2 after "fixing it".
Thackered : The act of unintentionally disassembling a firearm in a safe condition while placing it into a dump bucket.
(adjective)
Example : He thackered his shotgun when the empty receiver ripped off the barrel and magazine tube and tumbled into the ground.
A big thanks to everyone who let me video tape you on Stage 2... I'll be doing a bit of a video mash up as time allows. If anyone would like to contribute your video and pictures of the good , the bad and the wet and muddy for the mashup I'd love to see it. Drop me a note.
-Todd
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dt1 or anyone else in need...
I have an extra room at the days inn , in Blakely from the 26th-31stwhich I will not be using. I believe it's a king side bed non smoking room. If someone would like it please message me otherwise I'll be canceling it tomorrow.
-Todd
Hotel room is now taken.
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dt1 or anyone else in need...
I have an extra room at the days inn , in Blakely from the 26th-31stwhich I will not be using. I believe it's a king side bed non smoking room. If someone would like it please message me otherwise I'll be canceling it tomorrow.
-Todd
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The match was a good mix of speed and accuracy. RO staff was outstanding and the only real issue was getting golf carts late in the day on Friday instead of the morning when only 3 of the 8 stages could be seen without them. Quite a few people arrived in the morning hoping to walk stages only to have to wait several hours to get the carts. There were also some issues with the ipad that was being used to swipe the cards for charging people for the golf carts but the staff pretty much handled all bumps in stride and got it all sorted out in the end.
Overall I enjoyed the match and compliment the 3GN crew for what I suspect was a somewhat stressful few days for them but made a few hundred competitors pretty happy. The prize table was awesome and the RO's were consistent and professional with each competitor. For the number of people who shot the event and the number of stages things seem to balance out pretty well. Loved the demos and the side match, if the half day schedule continues more side matches would be nice.
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Well Said Bryan 45, even if you have anger issues toward chicken noodle soup
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If 300 shooters show up....then we have a problem...since the match is limited to 200 and we have only let 200 in. Just saying:)
Good point 3GN website shows the cool number of 222 shooters. Looking forward to the match, looks like I need some warmer clothes and a poncho!
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Sight in is open at 3pm. 100 yrds, paper and small auto popper. It will close at 5:00PM.
2 hours for 300 shooters to confirm zero seems a bit optimistic. Never underestimate the damage the luggage monkeys and TSA can do to ones gear when traveling by air.
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Do you still have those treadmills?
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Quality over quantity. You've got the distance there so use it! A few really long shots would be nice. I'd love to see that large bay at the end used to it's fullest potential. One hell of a stage could be put up back there. I love using all 3 guns in a stage but it is nice to mix it up a bit and have a few stages focus on or or two guns instead of three.
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New to this match. What is this skedco you speak of?
You can see it here a few seconds into the video, as well as the other stages and bits of awesome that make this match so unique.
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So, how heavy do you "the competitor" think this years skedco should be and how long of a pull? Just curious how you guys feel about it. If you consider yourself one of the more "in shape/fit" shooters coming to the match then I would like to hear from you as well as the youngest smallest shooter that may be in attendance.
Let's hear it!
I know a few shooters last year opted to not pull it as it was too heavy,had I think a lighter weight, longer distance would be a winning combo. I think it'd be fun to make them pull it a ways, engage some targets and then have to pull it some more.
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Reverse stage 1 mike... start at the top of the tower , shoot all 3 guns and work your way down
Figure out how to get some targets in that pool at the house and how to get some shooters on the roof
Looking forward to it!
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The only fair way to do it with demand obviously larger than the available spots is to allow everyone who wants to shoot to sign-up and to then do a random draw / lottery for the slots. All this negativity over this can't be helping the 3GN cause much at all. It seems a bit silly to promote a sport and build it up to the point it is at now and then only have enough spots for a fraction of the people who want to compete.
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1 minute
Pro's have 35 seconds
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Mac did the stage by stage results get published yet? I wanted to see how some of my times stacked up
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In case anybody would like to see what "Squad Awesome" was up to in the shoot house... I did a little mashup at 3am last night since I was still jacked up from the 3 coffee's i drank on my 4 hour drive back to Miami. This video features Squad 4 and some Squad 5... Smitty is in there somewhere ... Stephen B runs smack into a wall and bounces off like plastic man, Ken goes on a swearing tirade during a malfunction.... some fumbled mag changes... and a lot of shooting
Enjoy
-Todd
Shoot House design
in Stage Design
Posted · Edited by MiniUzi
Physical design notes left off
Congrats on the fun project!
Physical design
I've seen folks build huge walls that are strong but end up being too cumbersome to move around. If you have to move the thing then you're best to do it with framed wooden walls with the plastic Visquen from home depot. If you can build it semi-temporary and will have it in place for a couple weeks/months then just build a few sturdy walls and start locking them together on the top. The first video below has a shoot house build this way slowly over the course of a few years. It has a dedicated bay. If this is something that needs to go up and then come down I have build plans around here somewhere for walls designed to be put up and torn down from match to match.
If it's going to be in place for some time, take into consideration the largest person you've ever met.. putting 100% of their weight on any of the walls.. It needs to survive that, repeatedly.
Some thoughts on stage design... not physical design...
A few things to consider
Fun things to think about.
Anyway Good luck with this! I'm off to the range to setup a shoot house and a few other stages for 3 gun tomorrow If the event allows for it, run the shoot house blind if you can at some point. It's really the true test of one's ability. Unknown targets, unknown or partial house layout... @multigun on instagram and I'll be posting some stuff today as I do some plotting and planning.
A few examples of shoot houses with semi-permanent structures to give you ideas of room layouts/ target arrays. Granted the examples below are from 3gun