Winston_Smith
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Posts posted by Winston_Smith
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21 hours ago, davsco said:
damn, all the hate for PCC's and all the MD's that feel the need to add a bunch of super tight shots or other measures to "keep the man/pcc down." it's a separate division, yeah you (handgun shooter) may not get high overall, but it's fun and lets others who might not find it easy with handguns, to compete & have fun. i agree it's the 'cheatingest' division but it is fun and good practice for HD scenarios.
The whole concept of people looking at “high overall” is really quite pathetic. I imagine the people who really care are the same who look for pickup basketball games with eight year olds so they can “win.” I don’t know why Practiscore lumps every division together with an overall “winner.” It’s clearly an apples-to-watermelons comparison. They should simply break it down by division which is the only relevant comparison. The only folks who have a right to gloat for so-called “high overall” are those shooting SSP (or maybe CDP or CCP before the ammo limitations were lifted). If you are shooting PCC, CO, or ESP, you have historically had a decided advantage over everyone else. I don’t begrudge anyone for shooting those (I shoot SSP, ESP and PCC), but taking some smirking satisfaction you “bested” everyone else means that there is some life to be gotten.
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For clarity sake, do the 2022 rules basically adopt the Gentlemen’s Agreement?
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2 hours ago, Jim Watson said:
They have a great reputation in the marque.
I doubt you will feel a lack of the barrel bushing in IDPA; a smidgen off machine rest groups is not significant.
You will find that .45 vs 9mm will gain you a point every now and then when the bigger bullet just hits the line.
When I was running .45 ESP, I was typically seeing 2 points per match. Joe D. once reported 6 nipper zeros.
Agreed. The pistol is pretty damn accurate out of the box. I actually hadn't thought of the advantage of using .45 v 9mm which you point out. I shot my first IDPA match with a Walther PPQ .45 which has a 4 1/4 barrel. The recoil on that thing just about wiped me out by the end of the day.
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On 3/18/2022 at 11:47 PM, Jim Watson said:
Winston, if you are still around, see the new 2022 edition.
ESP now officially follows the Gentlemen's Agreement- AC Letter.
Very little difference from L10, make weight, fit box.
Thanks Jim. I actually went ahead and had my 97BD upgraded by Cajun Gun Works with the Pro Package without the enhanced bushing added in the "E" version. I did that more for expense reasons than IDPA rule compliance. I must say that for any CZ owners out there contemplating using CGW to upgrade your pistol, go for it. This is the best pistol I have ever shot, period, full stop. I'm having my other CZ upgraded as well. Not cheap but well worth it.
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On 1/6/2022 at 1:47 PM, Toolguy said:
Maybe they would let you re-enter with another gun and shoot the course again?
We just don't have the time to do this. We have a pretty full crowd. I'm not trying to seek any competitive advantage. I do this for fun and would just like to try different pistols throughout the day. Thanks everybody for your responses.
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Thank you!
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I didn’t see this in the rules so apologies if I missed it. Must one shoot the same pistol for every string of fire throughout the match day? I’d like to change it up a little. Thanks.
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On 8/15/2021 at 12:00 PM, Jim Watson said:
I think it will fit The Box.
Then you get into the semantics. It has a "bull" barrel which is not addressed in the rules although "cone" and "heavy" barrels longer than 4.25" are not allowed.
If you have one, take it and shoot it.
If you don't, I would not buy one without a clarification from HQ.
That is one of those silly rules that people with nothing better to do make fun of.
This.
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7 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:
Why not allow all modifications? Because not all modifications are equal in their effect or expense.
Why does carry optics bug you so much? You do realize that certain optics and the way they're mounted are absolutely appropriate for concealed carry, right? And that many handguns today come ready to accept such optics from the factory. And that many (myself included) do effectively conceal carry compact and mid sized handguns with silde mounted optics?
Yes, I'm aware of all of those things. I'm waiting to pick up my Walther Q 5 Match SF. Would I actually conceal carry that with with an RMR? No. Do you actually compete with your compact CO pistol? Kudos to you if you do. It doesn't "bug me" that IDPA has a Carry Optic division. But no one I've seen competing with CO at my club would/could actually conceal carry their pistol with optic that they use to actually shoot.
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5 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:
I told you before, IDPA has a Specialty division for just such occasion.
As a technical matter, our club doesn't run a "Specialty" division; as a practical matter, it more or less does.
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Just now, Winston_Smith said:
Jim, I'm glad our club appears to be flexible on rules and equipment definitions by not strictly enforcing equipment definitions. At the end of the day, our IDPA club matches provide an umbrella for me to just go out and shoot with pistols I like to shoot with in a format that enhances my attention to safety and shooting skills. I'm not getting on Practiscore to figure out where I lined up vis-a-vis others (kind of a waste since 70% are shooting Carry Optic which obviously gives them a decisive advantage and I like to shoot CDP which, given ammunition restrictions, mean you will necessarily be behind everybody else from a time perspective) and I'm not planning on going beyond the club to sectionals, state, nationals, etc. If our club did USPSA, ASI, or whatever, I'd be fine with that umbrella, too. Today, we are doing a 3-gun shoot which is basically show up and shoot anything you want. I like that. For those who are really "into" the competitive aspect and want to see rules enforcement at higher-level matches, I respect that. But since the mod rules are kind of arbitrary to begin with, why preclude people who would otherwise want to participate at the club level just because they have a custom barrel bushing?
I should note, by the way, that all of my pistols as concurrently configured meet IDPA rules.
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15 hours ago, Jim Watson said:
And SSP is not as wild and wooly as "Production" either.
I have shot a good deal of .45 Minor in ESP; I have the double stack gun that loads to 10+1 (but I am struggling with magazine "tune" and bullet selection, see thread in Handloading) and I have some 9 round single stack magazines that fit the box*; 9+1 is not a bad handicap, maybe not at all if your MD is unimaginative.
*Don't search the catalogs for 9 shot .45 magazines, most of mine are 10 rounders cut off and the floor plates silver soldered back on.
It is possible to put a CMC 7 to 8 follower and spring kit in an 8 round tube and get it to hold 9, too.
The Gentlemen's Agreement covers a lot of those inconvenient things we would like to have on our ESPs and I am OK with that, but the attitude that "it is just a club match so the equipment definitions don't matter" is hard to get on with.
Jim, I'm glad our club appears to be flexible on rules and equipment definitions by not strictly enforcing equipment definitions. At the end of the day, our IDPA club matches provide an umbrella for me to just go out and shoot with pistols I like to shoot with in a format that enhances my attention to safety and shooting skills. I'm not getting on Practiscore to figure out where I lined up vis-a-vis others (kind of a waste since 70% are shooting Carry Optic which obviously gives them a decisive advantage and I like to shoot CDP which, given ammunition restrictions, mean you will necessarily be behind everybody else from a time perspective) and I'm not planning on going beyond the club to sectionals, state, nationals, etc. If our club did USPSA, ASI, or whatever, I'd be fine with that umbrella, too. Today, we are doing a 3-gun shoot which is basically show up and shoot anything you want. I like that. For those who are really "into" the competitive aspect and want to see rules enforcement at higher-level matches, I respect that. But since the mod rules are kind of arbitrary to begin with, why preclude people who would otherwise want to participate at the club level just because they have a custom barrel bushing?
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14 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:
Why would it not make sense if the purpose was to allow a not-unlimited range of modifications?
I realize there are only indoor USPSA matches convenient to you, but USPSA is a lot more flexible about what you can do to a pistol and remain within the rules of at least one of our equipment divisions. On top of that, if your intent is simply to have fun, I think you'll enjoy yourself more when you're free to solve the shooting problem with very, very few constraints outside of safety (USPSA) instead of having to solve it in a very prescribed way (IDPA)
My view is that once you open the door to modifications, it becomes fairly arbitrary as to what is and what is not allowed. Why is a custom barrel bushing disallowed but not an obviously customized competition hammer? I kind of thought the point of IDPA (but happy to admit I might be wrong) was to be distinct from USPSA where you can basically do most anything you want. In other words, a gun you might actually carry. Size and weight restrictions make sense to me; but once you allow some modifications, why not all as you long as you meet certain size and weight. Particularly when they have a carry-optic division. I think the Gentlemen's Agreement tacitly recognizes this and I'm glad that's the case.
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13 hours ago, matteekay said:
Oh wow. I wonder if the big dogs know this secret? They're all shooting silly old 9mm in the minor-only division.
So, legal insofar as it's required to have a bushing, not legal if you have an SO who's versed enough in CZ's to know that that model didn't originally have it. Willing to bet that it'd be fine at a local but that's up to the OP.
Either way, should be fully legal for ESP based on the latest guidance.
Definitely legal under the Gentlemen's Agreement. Let's hope that sticks. Not for the sake of my pistol but because it just makes more sense.
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To be clear, at my club I doubt that anyone would care. I understand someone has been shooting with a CZ Shadow II which is definitely outside the rules on account of weight. No one would really say anything. I do appreciate everybody weighing in.
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14 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:
The bushing is not on the inclusive list of approved modifications. That's why.
That's how I would read the rules as well. Which frankly doesn't make any sense.
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On 11/3/2021 at 2:35 PM, Jim Watson said:
As I hope to have explained, it is acceptable now but who knows what lies in the future.
You did and thank you. I saw Lund's post on Linked-In. I'm kind of baffled by the whole thing but then, other than weight and dimension, I really don't understand the rationale behind the rules, other than those for SSP.
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On 11/3/2021 at 3:00 PM, matteekay said:
It'd probably be helpful to explain what an "E" version is.
Here you go: https://cajungunworks.com/product/e-conversion-for-cz-97b-bd-625-00/
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I think you have kind of nailed it. I get the sense they are fairly loose on the rules at my club. I'm not planning on trying to go to events outside of my club.
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Getting a gun I enjoy shooting is more important than worrying about whether it will fit into someone's rulebook. I was more curious than anything to know if the E conversion would disqualify it from IDPA.
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I'm not really interested in shooting USPSA. All the USPSA matches where I live are in in-door ranges. I like being outdoors and being able to shoot into lateral side-berms. I haven't yet taken ownership of my 97 BD. I will figure this out in the next couple of months. Thanks for all of the responses.
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On 10/23/2021 at 2:58 PM, SGT_Schultz said:
You can take your chances with the IDPA rules opinion lottery or you can just shoot it in USPSA Production where it's both perfectly within the rules and plenty competitive.
SGT Schultz, I think your response in another thread answers the question. The "E" conversion puts a custom barrel bushing on the gun; since that's not on the "inclusive list" under the ESP rules, I'm assuming that's illegal. Kind of silly when you think about it.
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Did you buy this gun from CZ Custom? I would think the custom hammer would kick it over to ESP. But, I must confess, I struggle to understand the rules.
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Thanks all. Candidly, I just shoot at my local club which has an IDPA chapter (we don't have USPSA). I think we are a little looser on the rules. I don't really intend to shoot beyond my local club.
PCC in IDPA
in IDPA Rules
Posted
Jim, I respect your opinion as much as anyone on this forum. I will say, however, that no gunsmith has been able to do internal trigger work on any of pistols that would otherwise be in SSP and have the performance of the pistol come close to what Cajun Gun Works was able to do to my CZ 97BD. Just night and day. At least for me, there is a big difference between what I would shoot in SSP and ESP. Just my experience and you may have better gunsmiths in your neck of the woods.