Chrisperkins027
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Posts posted by Chrisperkins027
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The big factor for me was cost in reloading which can be substantial over the long term depending on how many rounds you shoot/reload.
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What wonderkid came up with 50? >30 is used for a normal distribution. Did USPSA do a Bayesian analyses? I tend to doubt.
30 is more than enough. Normalize the data: subtract the mean and divide by the standard deviation for you Z value. Then look it up. So simple. And you don’t need >30 in the sample size.
Ooops.
I agree. I think 30 would be quite sufficient.
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Wrong,
the classification system rewards pushing the limits, and most of the High Hit Factors take that into account (division dependent) most M and A class shooters (not all) got there by pushing hard on classifiers and either getting a good run or tanking hard enough for it not to count against them. at a L2+ match most shooters will not be pushing to 100% because the crash counts against their match and they likely value that score more.
if you want to stop the hero or zero system we have make all classifiers count all the time and your class can float up and down,
Ok I hear what you’re saying. IMO if you have an A class shooters that shows up to a local match and goes 100% to get his A class but then goes to a level II that has a classifier and only goes 90% on the classifier and shoots a B class classifier then he is a B class shooter that only goes fast at matches that don’t matter. Again just my opinion.
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meh. I threw out all those plaques, but if someone else likes them, that's cool. Some dudes dig fat chicks too.
[emoji1787]
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you may be right, which is why I don't object to class trophies. I think they provide certain people something they need without screwing up other stuff. I only object to having valuable prizes/contingencies tied to the class results. But in the long run, I don't really care about that either. I just care about getting better at shooting. When I can't work on that, I pass time by arguing on the internet. And maybe if they give valuable to stuff to a class winner, they'll give it to a category winner too, and I can pretend I 'won' by beating a bunch of other old dudes.
[emoji1787].
Don’t get me wrong I’m talking about the trophies not the prize table. I support prize table walks in order of division or match finish not class finish, even over the apparently newer random draw trend.
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I think most of us can agree that minor league baseball truly doesn't matter.
In many sports it makes sense to separate athletes by ability for safety reasons. You don't want beginners playing full-contact hockey with experienced players, for example, and you can't run beginners on the same enduro or motocross courses as expert riders.
I personally think handicaps for golf and bowling are stupid and counterproductive, and for the same reasons as I think prizes for class 'wins' are.
Ok and I respect your opinion. I believe though, that if this sport gets away from recognizing class leaders and maintaining integrity within the classification system it will be more difficult to attract new shooters in a world where the pro gun crowd seems to be getting older and smaller.
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The problem is that your premise and your solution do not align with each other. Putting a classifier in every level 2 match will do nothing. If anything, it will keep people's averages down, as they will not be willing to Hero or Zero a stage at a major match.
I would respectfully disagree. Having a classifier in every level 2 match would force those trying to win a class or division to shoot their very best on every stage or risk losing the place they had hoped to achieve. It would also provide some remedy for those shooters who get an initial classification and then never go to local matches.
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Time for positivity. Why can't you compete for a national title some day IF you work hard enough to be in the conversation? Every year someone comes out of the shadows to be a top contender. This year we had one of the best examples ever in Christian Sailer. You WILL be better if you train to be better.
I get what you are saying and I agree that you will get better if you train better. In my position, however, I entered the sport too late in life to likely ever achieve that level. Additionally my schedule does not allow me the time to train like I would need to train to achieve that level therefore I set smaller goals that are more consistent with my age and career. My 15 year old son on the other hand is climbing the ladder quite quickly.
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What do you think the classifier system is for?
In general, this isn't a problem except in one division, because one company is offering cash, and the system is going to work itself out via match bumps. The great majority of other shooters aren't purposely hiding in a lower class because they want a $6 trophy.
At least in my group of friends they would rather be struggling as a new master or GM as opposed to winning every match in A or B class.
I agree that’s what the classification system is for. What I’m saying is that competition would be better if the classification system worked better. My recommendation for making it work better is to put a classifier in every level II match.
My question for those on here who say it doesn’t matter or I people should work harder etc is this...”If it truly doesn’t matter then it shouldn’t matter if USPSA made a rule change to make it mandatory.”
As for getting my feelings hurt or needing a hug or whatever bc someone beat me out of a class trophy etc., I have no feelings. I was just offering a suggestion to make the sport better and more competitive for those of us that will likely never compete for a national title.
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Epitome of a response indicating people need vindication for "getting better" via prizes or as they are called...participation trophies. Again, cool that matches can give them away but I competed in bunch of matches this year and never once thought "Better work hard for those prizes this year" lol. I even managed to finish top 3 in my class at A6, A7 and a sectional. Got the plaque and thought "I'm on the right track". Maybe at A6 & A7 the competitors above me were sandbagging. I didn't get in my feelings about it. If they can game the system then so be it.
I played division 1 college football so I know about people gaming the system for real via PEDs and how that is truly unfair. This is a weekend hobby for the majority of our membership. Please take this air hug if sandbaggers are hurting your feelings.
Like other posters here, I too grew up in the time before participation trophies were a thing. I do believe, however, that the sport would become more competitive if shooters were forced to compete against others of the same skill level.
People might argue that this makes no sense or little difference but this is a common practice in nearly all other sports as well. Golf and bowling have handicaps, football and baseball in schools of all levels have classification levels. Even professional sports have different levels for different level players (ie major and minor league baseball.
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Ok.
Make better life decisions. “hey man, don’t age”.
[emoji1787]
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no, what i'm saying is that class 'winners' don't matter, and in fact are bad for the sport.
I don't win my division, but that doesn't take anything away from my desire to improve at shooting. If someone needs to pretend they 'won' in order to be motivated, I don't really care, but I think it's lame to attach valuable prizes to that pretense. Just give out a participation plaque and be done with it.
That’s what I said apparently we lower class shooters don’t matter and under your long of thought should remove ourselves from the sport until such a time we are deemed worthy enough to compete for overall spots. This is dangerous to the sport. And as far as prizes go you seem to be getting your wish as prize tables are becoming rare. I’ve been to two level II matches this year that had no prize tables and instead handed out checks to division winners. Class trophies are still a valuable form of motivation for many shooters as they feel like they have accomplished something.
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There is an easy way to fix that perceived problem.... Stop celebrating lack of competence.
So what you’re saying here is that only the overall division winners matter? If that’s the case then those of us lower class shooters (the bulk of the shooters) don’t matter. If that’s the case then this becomes a sport that only the pros can compete in and would largely fall to a spectator sport. I was under the impression that the sport existed to support the love of shooting and the 2nd Amendment and to acknowledge shooters of all levels. Pretty sure if it only consisted of Ms and GMs there would be no sport.
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IDK. Shite happens. I know I had a few 50% stages at Nats. I also had some really good ones. Definitely wasn’t throwing any on purpose. Forgot to chamber a round, forgot a target, list my dot. Those will crash a stage bad!
I understand those things happen that’s why I am not willing to outright accuse anyone. I was simply using it as an example of how a bad score on a classifier in a major match could impact overall finish.
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I disagree!
Sandbaggers wining prizes off the table for a class win is 100% taking from someone who’s legitimate X class.
even if there’s not a prize to be won, it’s still straight up douche bag!
I agree.
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"appeared"?
If I were going to tank a classifier, I would do it at a local match, not sacrifice a major match, but I personally don't know any M's who aren't striving to make GM.
Appeared just from looking at stage scores. When someone is shooting 90-95 % in every stage of a match then shoots a 50ish % it suggests that it was on purpose.
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Not even close. I have a problem with sandbaggers! I do not sandbag at all.
That’s my position as well. I hate seeing people get knocked out of a class trophy bc of someone shooting in a lower class than what they should be, especially when it’s obvious.
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A few thoughts-
1. That increases the fees paid to USPSA by the match- most MDs May bump the cost of the match a couple $ to account for that.
2. That drops a course of fire that maybe have been unique.
3. If it is a low round count, low match point stage it may not even impact the match
A former AD used to put 2 classifiers in the area match just for this reason.
[emoji1303]
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I think i would worry more about my own shooting, but then I'm trying to improve in the overall, against the winner, not desperately trying to be first senior C transgender military at the next area match.
Well for those of us who aren’t M or GM shooters and got into the sport too late in life to likely achieve those levels it is nice to be able to compete within our respective classes.
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"appeared"?
If I were going to tank a classifier, I would do it at a local match, not sacrifice a major match, but I personally don't know any M's who aren't striving to make GM.
And it may not have been intentional it just appeared that way. It could have been a gun failure. I was just mentioning it as an example of how purposely blowing a classifier could cost someone a spot on the podium.
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This wouldn't change anything related to sandbagging. At a Level 2 match I'm not going to try to blast a classifier at my max "omg let's try to hundo this" pace. I'm going to shoot it so that I get a good number of alphas and don't trash my match by zeroing it.
I get that too. A recent level II match that I shot at though included a M shooter that appeared to purposely tank the classifier stage which cost him a place on the podium. I just think there is some logic behind including one in every match. Before that match I didn’t give it a lot of thought but upon reflection I think it was good idea.
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30 minutes ago, Sarge said:
If I understand things now level II and up are automatically submitted as classifier matches as long as certain criteria is met, so there really isn’t a need to include a classifier per day.
Only if you have 50 shooters in the division and 3 GMs. Some divisions rarely see 50 shooters in a match.
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I was just wondering who would be in favor of making it mandatory to include a classifier in all level II matches? It seems like there is a lot of sandbagging going on and one way to prevent a lot of this would be to include a classifier in level II matches. If a shooter was purposely avoiding local matches/classifiers they would not be able to avoid them in major matches this way. I understand that there are methods in place to promote shooters to higher classes based on major match performance but there are prerequisites that must be met. 1) At least 3 GMs in Division. 2) At least 50 shooters in Division, and some others that I won't list here. The problem here is that many divisions, such as single stack, limited 10, carry optics, and sometimes production do not have 50 shooters or 3 GMs in a major match. Thoughts?
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Finally signed up for my first USPSA match this Saturday. I'll be shooting a Sig X5 with Romeo 1 in CO using Speer Lawman 124gr. Any advice, tips, tricks are welcome. I've shot timed courses of fire before during work qualifications, but nothing quite like this.
Remember to shoot “your” match don’t try to keep up with everyone else. Go slow and get good hits and speed will come as you learn the game.
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Strong Point Range Cancels USPSA matches for rest of the year
in Operations
Posted
One of the clubs I shoot at (two hrs away) has set up the day before the match. Due to this only local shooters have the opportunity to help with design/setup and they are always looking for help. One thing that seems to have helped them and setup is that each time someone shows up to help setup their name is entered into a drawing for a gun. I believe they give a gun away every 6 months but couldn't say for sure.