mastergunner
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Posts posted by mastergunner
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I have a Dillon 650 that I am loading 9mm with a OAL of 1.142 for USPSA. I have noticed that I get a huge variation when seating bullets. They can go from an OAL of 1.130 to 1.165. I am using Xtreme 147gn bullets. Am I doing something working here or are Dillon dies just not that accurate? Thanks for any advice.
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I would like some suggestions from the forum on spring weights for my M&P CORE 5" barrel 40cal. I believe the stock weight is 16lbs. I am shooting USPSA and hand load using 180gn bullet loading for Major PF. Please provide websites to suggested springs. Thanks.
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GUYS hold up. I started this thread to help me figure out how to reduce recoil in my 40 but also to remain in MAJOR. I have seen a lot of math recently and though it is great, it is not really helping me. The bad part about it is that the math is not jiving with some of the online calculators that I have seen.
To be straight here it seems like I need to push a 180 gr .40 to around 930+ to remain in Major. To me that is going to be a nice amount of recoil.
I would assume fast loading powder may ease it a little but not a lot?
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1 hour ago, Bullets said:
I would use the w231 over the cfe if you are trying to soften up the recoil. Heavier bullets is the way to go for softer shooting too. I would also go with a coated bullet if I were you. It will require less powder to make power factor. That will help soften the recoil too.
Think I will use the W231 with a 180 from xtreme bullets.
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Yep that is what I was seeing so I do not understand why some on here are showing lower velocities. Yes I want less recoil but I want to shoot Major. Seems like I am going to have to live with a lot of recoil.
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Guys this is an awesome discussion though I guess what I thought was a simple question really isn't. What I have noticed is that the calculations provided by a few here on PF are not jiving with most online PF calculators. If I wanted to shoot Major with my .40 I need to shoot a 180gr bullet at almost 900fps. Some of you are showing a way lower velocity so I am really confused.
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8 minutes ago, zzt said:
mg, I just gave you one. 3.5gr e3 under a 155gr bullet for 131PF. You can load it lighter if you like.
sd, you are mistaken.
Got it. So I cannot make Major PF with a 155gn bullet?
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36 minutes ago, zzt said:
sd, you are talking about "felt" recoil. Actual recoil calculations are based on the weight of the powder, not its composition or burn rate. As such, recoil comparisons are accurate and valid.
mg, yes for 40sw and 45ACP. I don't know about 9mm, because I don't reload it. The person who had the testing does use it for 9mm and says it works fine and is safe.
BTW, I gave my Major and Minor loads for Limited in an earlier post. I also developed a soft load for Steel Challenge. It is 3.3gr e3 under a Rainier 135gr TC bullet. It makes 109PF and shoots like a dream in my CZ TS. For Steel with my Open upper for the TS I load 3.5gr e3 under a 155ge Rainier TC bullet for 131PF. It works the comp and there is zero muzzle rise.
zzt I thought those loads were for a 180gn bullet. Did you have one for a 155gn bullet?
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2 hours ago, zzt said:
sd, my reference for the 4000 is Ed Lowry, Winchester's famed ballistician. The math does not say a heavy bullet will generate less recoil than a light bullet pushed to the same power factor. While that is certainly the case sometimes, it is not always. If you use small amount of a fast powder for the 180 and gobs of slow powder for the light bullet, things may reverse.
mg, I came up with the data because an individual had the powder tested at a lab (cartridge manufacturer) to see what the limits were. He reports the loading is the same as Clays, but without the pressure spikes. He also says that at higher pressures, e3 acts like it is a slightly slower powder. e3 exhibits no temperature sensitivity. In my chrono testing e3 gives the same velocity grain for grain the Clays or Clay Dot does.
zzt so I would use the Clay or Clay Dot loading data for the particular grain I need for the velocity I want?
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1 hour ago, zzt said:
The 4000 in the recoil formula (or the 4700, depending on which manufacturer's data you use) is not fps. It is the velocity of sound propagation in the propellant gasses.
The first thing you must do is differentiate between actual recoil and felt recoil. Using heavier bullets actually increases actual recoil, but feels softer to many, because the recoil is more of a push. Using a slower powder, within reason, also increases actual recoil, but may feel softer.
For Limited Major I use fast powders and heavier bullets. My long time go to load was 180gr bullet over 3.6gr Alliant e3. It is clean, accurate soft and has no temperature sensitivity. That load makes 172PF. Loading down to 2.8gr gives 140PF and shoots to the same POI.
Besides recoil, felt or actual, there are other considerations to think about. Let's keep everything at 172PF for now. A 180 is going to hit the hand less (feels softer), but the muzzle will rise more. So you are a touch slower for your second shot. A 155 will hit the hand harder (snappier), but the muzzle will rise less. I tried 165s before I quit limited, and felt I was back on target faster. I was more than willing to put up with the little more snap.
I would not use Clays, Clay Dot, or International for 40 Major, because of the pressure spikeyness. I would use e3, WST, competition, and other powders in that speed range.
BTW, Alliant e3 costs $138.95 per 8 pound jug. That's less expensive than N320 for a 4 pound jug.
zzt how did you come up with this load data for Alliant when e3 is for shotguns? Since I have not been reloading long I would be interested in learning how you came up with this for future reference.
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zzt thanks for the reply. So I take that I should try 165s with a faster powder?
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27 minutes ago, Pirate said:
I use Titegroup behind a 180gr and It works great for me.
How many gn's are running it with? Really light recoil?
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I appreciate all of the answers. So I take that a heavier bullet will reduce recoil. Faster powder will assist with this? Since I am new to reloading (been reloading just over a year) I only own Win 231 and CFE Pistol. What would be a good powder that doesn't cost and arm and a leg like 320 (looks like it costs $42 a pound)? Does anyone have any load data with a specific powder that would allow me to shoot Major PF without huge recoil? Thanks for the help again guys.
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I guess I must be lost because I wanted to be shooting Major.
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I am shooting USPSA using my S&W M&P 40. I have shot 180 gr bullets but thought if I went to a 155gr bullet I would have less recoil. I am using CFE Pistol powder and would like to get some help on a real lite load for a 155gr bullet. Is there such a thing or do I have to go back to a heavier bullet. I also have Win 231 powder that I could use if necessary. Thanks for the help.
Preferred 9mm Major dies
in 9mm/38 Caliber
Posted
How did you get consistent OAL with the Dillon Seating Die? Mine are all over the place with 9mm.