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MKitzmiller

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Posts posted by MKitzmiller

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    1 hour ago, kneelingatlas said:

    Peter,

    I've tested 9mm and 38 super loads in a handful of pistols with different comps, barrel lengths, numbers/sizes of holes, bullet weights from 95gr to 135, and the following powders:

    Power Pistol, WAC, CFE Pistol, Silhouette, Longshot, HS6, 3N38, SP2, N105, and Lil Gun.

    WAC and 3N38 have very different burn characteristics, so 7gr of one gives very different results than 7gr of the other.  Your test would give you valuable first hand data, so I suggest you do it, but I have a pretty good idea what you'll find.

    There's a large degree of personal preference in load development, and each shooter has different priorities with regards to soft vs flat, noise, flash, and peer pressure, so there is no substitute for rounds down range.

    This is the most admirable post. So true. Calculations and such in 9major only get you somewhere to start. the fine tuning is done after hours of notes and range time.. 

    Very well said!

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted · Edited by MKitzmiller

    12 minutes ago, teros135 said:

     

     

    This is funny!  Entertainment is good.  It keeps the day from becoming too serious. 

    teros, my 147 load ran great! The world should be blessed with more folks like you! 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    20 minutes ago, BeerBaron said:

    That's reasonable. :) I'll only point out that shooting with a bunch of GM's doesn't affect your classification. in USPSA you earn grade based on your performance on classifiers. unlike your stage performance the % is not ranked against the top shooter but against a set HF for the classifier. so whether you shoot with a team of D grade pensioners or team Eric Graufel it won't change your classifier % (well actually hopefully shooting with lots of GMs will make it better...).

    Best of luck at HAH. I have only seen the vids but it certainly looks to live up to it's name. 

    in fact one of my favourite shooting vids on the interwebs is Travis Gibson rocking the shit out of HAH2014.

    if you want some pre match inspo spend the 15min or so to watch it. :)

     

    Thanks for being cordial. It's the pressure with my group that I allow to affect my head. 

    HAH will be awesome. 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    24 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said:

    Keep your pants on Matt, no one is challenging your manhood :)

    Agreed. No one on a forum would ever compromise my manhood bud. Nevertheless, this thread has turned toward the dark side with regard to the "we've always/never done it that way" statements. The proof is in the timer and the timer has been good to me as of late. 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    You guys are so funny. I misinterpreted one fellow shooters statement and all hell broke loose. 

    Yeah teros135, I'am currently a D class open shooter in USPSA. I also have only shot about 8 USPSA matches and 6 of which were with a minor gun that didn't run for shit. 

    Furthermore, I began shooting 5 months ago @ 35 years of age. So my current classification is likely to be expected in the sense that I live where a solid group of GM's dominate the nation. 

    Lets go a bit further.. I've barely scratched the surface of my career in the shooting games. Come one come all if you'd like to stop running your mouth and put it on the timer. 

    Next major comp I'll be at is the Hard As Hell Multi Gun in UT. Looking forward to meeting all of you on this thread! 

    Last but not least, my 147's shot like a damn .22 last night at a local steel match. Gun stayed flat, and aside from my own f*#kups, the match went great!

    http://www.rsscaz.com/results/tue_nite.pdf

     

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted · Edited by MKitzmiller

    15 minutes ago, teros135 said:

     

     

    Good god man, cant you understand that I'm trying to establish some "findings"???

    I didn't compare irony to science. I'm simply saying that you're babbling on about the scientific method and I'm in the field shooting 3-5 matches a week and trying to get my shots off with more accuracy and speed.. Bottom line...  I started this thread for 9 Major load data. After this back and forth with you, (that will be coming to an screeching stop on my end as soon as I submit reply) I'm going to switch to .38 SC and never look back on this banter. 

    Have a great day. 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    13 hours ago, teros135 said:

    Well yes, this is actually the name drop game, the version of it where one claims someone else's "expertise" but doesn't actually say their names out loud.  Everybody in this conversation deserves to know who's actually talking.  It's better to consider not using them (anonymously) to make one's own points.  (How many of them are actually "world class", anyway?) 

    It's fine to ask questions and share information.  That's why we're here.  We'd like to help, but the forum deserves some respect, too. 

    No, its not the name drop game, and none of you are Brian f-ing Enos so you don't make the rules. Furthermore, keep in mind that many of you have published film of your matches.. If you don't know that Robbie, Nils, Muneki, Naim, etc. live and shoot here at our two flagship clubs you've been hiding under a rock. I'm blessed to have these guys coach and mentor me. Regardless if its a pointer or a 7 hour clinic. Only one shooter has given me load data for 147's, (147 GR FP behind 5.6 gr of CFE). If any of them wanted to share their recipes, they probably would've done so already as I started this thread months ago. The irony here is that you people talk so much theory, science, and hypothetical bullshit with regard to 147 gr loads, yet your legitimately pestering for load data. What are you guys going to do? Call the boys out when you're RO'ing them at a major? C'mon.. 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    19 minutes ago, teros135 said:

    Ok, I'll bite.  Who are the world champion AZ comrades you shoot with who use 147s in their championship performances?  We'd all like to know what their recipes are.  Inquiring minds want to know! 

    BTW, was the gun you shot 147s from yours?  Did you shoot a lot of rounds from it?  At, say, B or A class speeds? 

     

    I live in the Phoenix metro area. If you're a competitive shooter, you know who calls this place home.. I'm not playing the name drop game. With regard to recipes, they were shared in confidence and I'd be happy to share my findings pending chrono sessions. It was not my gun that I shot the 147's from. Once again as previously stated, I shot 29 rounds as fast as I could engage the trigger. 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    27 minutes ago, BeerBaron said:

    you initially said that your pro source told you: 

    "JHP's being good solely for minor is just what I was told. Plated TCG's and CFE pistol is the formula to answer the question."

     

    Now you tell us you're talking about Berrys plated which are not JHP's at all (the J being jacketed not plated).

     

    It's generally plated bullets that do not perform in major velocities as the plating is not thick enough. do a search on berrys and xtremes and you'll see thread after thread from people having accuracy issues with them in major loads (and minor loads too on occasion).

     

    It is almost universally agreed that the best bullet for a 9mm or 38 super IPSC style open gun is a JHP between 115 and 125gn in weight (from different makers they come in 115,121,124 and 125gn).

     

    Of the choices out there the hornady HAP (or XTP) is widely considered the best but of course it's also one of the most pricey. Right up there is zero JHP. If you look at what guys shooting 9 and super in bianchi load (where 50 yard accuracy is crucial) it's likely one of those 2 OR a custom sized lead bullet (fine at their minor velocities).

     

    Close behind those 2 are JHP's from MG and PD.

     

    While most of the plated bullets perform poorly, some people do have success with them in their particular gun and load combo. some brands are better than others too (I use frontier CMJs at major, they have a very thick plating and work just fine).

     

    As far as 147s being the ideal bullet weight for a major PF open gun many users would disagree there too. The heavier bullets impart more recoil and more torque/twist to the gun. As a test pick a powder charge and OAL. something fairly conservative (certainly not major). load some up with a 90gn pill and some with a 147. Same powder charge, seat bullet to same case capacity but I can tell you now they will feel very different. in fact the 90gn will likely not cycle the slide fully. For a major gun we basically want the lightest bullet we can load under the rules with a large amount of slow burning powder. this gives a fast and flat shooting gun. :)

    Thank you for your input. I've been shooting 124's regularly. Obviously thats the drug of choice. I said in a previous post that I misinterpreted a statement regarding the JHP situation. As previously stated, I'm going to shoot some 147's out of my pistol and see what happens. Cheers.

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted · Edited by MKitzmiller

    47 minutes ago, Sarge said:

    How many open major guns have you shot? Silky smooth dream and fast repeatable consistent dot movement are two entirely different things. I'm curious what pro shooter runs 147's in 9MAJOR Open division.

    If I had the time that you have to challenge posts on these forums all day and night I'd be whooping my AZ comrades that are world champs due to the amount of time i spent behind my guns. I don't know how many open guns I've shot Kevin. I know that I've been trying many recipes and I'm still not satisfied. The gun that I shot 147's from shot flat and produced very little muzzle  flip. I was able to follow the dot through all 29 rounds during a rapid fire exercise. I'm going to give the 147's a whirl if you don't mind

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    5 hours ago, tyler2you said:

    I don't think you'll find anyone successfully loading 147s to Major PF with WAC.  One way I have seen it done is with VV 3N38:

    147gr XTP w/ 6.3 to 6.9 gr of 3N38 at 1.142 OAL (1171 to 1207 FPS).
     

    I'm gonna give it hell.. Back from Mexico next week and game on! 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Alaskapopo said:

    Yea going to have to call BS on that reliable source. No offense to you. 

    After speaking with Muneki a little more in detail about this over the weekend he said that th berry's HHP I was shooting was not suggested to fly at 1400+ FPS as I was shooting them. Talked with berry's and they don't recommend exceeding 1150 FPS.. Hopefully this puts this nightmare to bed. Sorry for the confusion fellas. 

    image.png

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    On August 22, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Sarge said:

    Hmmm.. Something was amiss because BBI's can sure handle it. I have loaded 124's to 1425 with the only issue being more smokey than I like and getting the comp pretty dirty. A buddy runs BBI 115's to 1500+ in his open gun without issue. And I believe the owner of BBI runs them in his open guns. All super accurate too!

    what were the loads doing?

    Im sure Donnie shoots his own stuff. However, the bullet is so damn dirty. My comp literally has lead stuck in it after every match. If I keep them slower, they shoot okay and eject. If I load them a little long and faster, they FTF just enough to drive me nuts. Had some random paper hits and weighed the rounds, finding inconsistencies. I went back to MG's and perfect, clean, precision. That's all.

     

    1 hour ago, Sarge said:

    I just can imagine running heavy bullets in 9MAJOR/38. The whole idea is to fill the case full of powder, not lead. Comps need gas to work and you need powder to create the gas.

     I guess if you have some 147's to burn and nothing else to do with them , then testing sounds like fun, I guess?

     I would trade them for some 124 JHP. :)

    I shot a local pro's gun after a club match on Sunday and the gun was a silky smooth dream to shoot. I got his load data. I'll check back in after chrono session. 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    On 8/16/2016 at 9:38 PM, Chevy said:

    Is there anyone loading a 147 gr bullet ? Is there and advantage to meet power factor?

     

    I have a ton of 147's. I'm going to search the forums for WAC load data for them. However, if anyone has a recipe to start with.. Please share! 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    5 hours ago, teros135 said:

    Not sure why a bullet would cause failure to fire.  

    Coated lead (Bayou, Blue, BBI) works fine for many folks.  I do find leading in one of my comps, but it's not hard to deal with.  All are reasonably accurate and none of them tumble at Open velocities  (1400+ for 124s, 1500+ for 115s).  Trust Sarge, he's tried a lot if it.  Opinions vary, so shoot what works for you.  

    FTF as in failure to feed. I trust in how my gun works. In my limited gun and 3G pistol, no issues with the coated guys. Open gun.. No thanks . 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, Sarge said:

    Hmmm.. Something was amiss because BBI's can sure handle it. I have loaded 124's to 1425 with the only issue being more smokey than I like and getting the comp pretty dirty. A buddy runs BBI 115's to 1500+ in his open gun without issue. And I believe the owner of BBI runs them in his open guns. All super accurate too!

    what were the loads doing?

    Im sure Donnie shoots his own stuff. However, the bullet is so damn dirty. My comp literally has lead stuck in it after every match. If I keep them slower, they shoot okay and eject. If I load them a little long and faster, they FTF just enough to drive me nuts. Had some random paper hits and weighed the rounds, finding inconsistencies. I went back to MG's and perfect, clean, precision. That's all.

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    To thicken the plot, I learned the hard way that coated bullets, (at least Bayou Bullets) are NOT worthy of 1300+ FPS. I shot a match Saturday and had nothing but issues running BB 124 TCG's behind 6.8 gr of WAC. Yesterday I ran a 130 MG RN behind 6.4 gr of WAC and shot my best USPSA match. 

    Autocomp 9mm Major Load Data

    in Open Pistols

    Posted

    8 hours ago, Sarge said:

    Yeah, I tried HS6 and just didn't see enough reason to move away from WAC. 7.4 with 121's or 7.8 with 115's gets me 175 all day at 1.165.

     And just love those MG JHP's!!

    I'm fairly confident that I've never built a bullet in spite.. However, the second i get home from vacation... Game on. JHP's over large WAC charges!

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