Csbassplayer2003
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Posts posted by Csbassplayer2003
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19 minutes ago, kimmbeckwith said:
I really think the NRA wants out of the competitions. As a Representative of Zero Ammunition, Inc., Zero Bullet Company, Inc. and Roze Distribution, Inc., we had visited last year with the Marketing Group(Woody) of the NRA assured me that our cash awards would be presented as part of our agreement to be a sponsor last year. Well guess what, 2nd and 3rd Junior was not presented, plaque or cash. I sent Kerrie an email and received an email back that unless there were 6 competitors in a group the awards would not be presented this was told to her by Aaron Farmer Deputy Directer of the Competitive Shooting Division. She forwarded the email to him and he sent me an apology and guaranteed me that they plaques and money would be sent to those competitors. He didn't realize we had this agreement with the Marketing Group. I told them if they were not presented to send me a refund. What were they going to do with my sponsor money? I told them this is exactly why they are loosing Sponsors!!!!
This is the problem when the NRA changes staff mid stream, no communications! If they chose Kerrie over Beth that is their decision, but they should had let Beth run it this year and Kerrie watch to see how it is done.
That was one thing that the NRA would never come clean on. Sponsors pledge support well ahead of the actual event, and before the turnout is known. This “well we didnt get XYZ number” is pure BS. That sponsorship support is going to already be there. This is just more evidence of mis-management. I appreciate the insight.
BTW thank you for supporting AP, Zero. You guys always show a lot of love even for the small events and make a quality product.
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1 hour ago, ffl said:
NRA is absolutely the worst on getting classifications updated. Sydney has been shooting Master scores for awhile but us still listed as Expert.
As former Chairman of ICORE i know how classifications are handled and the importance of keeping current. Classifications are easy to calculate and the scores input can be done online. NRA is so far behind the times it is scary.
Yeah, plenty of others who are mis-classified. And this year was the first year they had scores posted online while the rest of the shooting universe has been using Practiscore, etc... for years.
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1 hour ago, ffl said:
They even screwed up the awards.
Adam S won the Cup
They also gave him the cup for the Open winner According to the rules by winning the Cup he was not eligable to win the Open. that should have gone to Mark Blake, then Doug K then on down.
It was printed in the Program book on page 36 first paragraph
and in the Rule book Appendix B 6 (a) (1)
Wait. You expect the same people who cant even print the rulebook correctly to interpret it correctly as well? This is comical.
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Correct ,1906. Was previously unclassified too. Pretty amazing.
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I started out with a lot of hope for this year. Beth Martin got handed a rocky situation last year on short notice and managed to do right by the shooters under the circumstances.
This year there was zero excuse for everything that went down, foremost being the utter lack of receptiveness to feedback and borderline contempt for the event at all levels by “certain” NRA staff (all of the shooters know exactly who i am referring to, and its not Beth). I dont use the word contempt lightly, but there is almost no other way to describe it. I am not a tinfoil hat person, but this year is pushing me in that direction. The friends ive made and range staff are what makes this event worth showing up for, but unfortunately that seems to be the only thing right anymore. Everything else continues to go in the wrong direction. Ill let others chime in, but the inability to listen is what worries me the most. At this rate, many of the regionals are better run events, cost less and are more enjoyable.
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“Production holsters must be designed for draw from the top
only. Holsters must cover the slide up to minimum of 1⁄2” below the ejection port in semi-autos and a minimum halfway down the cylinder on revolvers. Holster must prevent access to, or activation of, the trigger of the handgun when holstered.”Excerpt from rulebook on production holsters. Based on my understanding and the photos, this holster would not be production legal. Im not a referee though.
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Im wondering just how much it would dilute a field that is already pretty one sided. At the smaller events, Production and Metallic are already in the minority by a lot vs open. Would carry optics (or open modified) change the open field, or take people from the production/metallic field?
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If you guys have taken the Bianchi survey that Cole had mentioned during the match, there is a question about a Carry Optics division and your feelings. I had not really thought about it until now and i have mixed feelings. I generally am in favor of anything to bring in mew shooters to action pistol as most of them dont have $5000 to drop on a proper open gun, but im not sure how i feel about adding such a class. It feels like a junior varsity Open division (or covering up poor mechanics, of which i am guilty as well). What does everyone else think?
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One week from the Cup and not much news.. Worries me a little bit. Program hasnt been updated or anything and still makes reference to 2016.
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I do find it interesting the manufacturers havent backed out even if Midway has jumped ship. Does this mean we might have gun giveaways again?
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What i would love to know in a nutshell is this: What is the NRA doing to grow the sport of Action Pistol?
If the answer is "nothing", they need to give it up or appoint people who are passionate about it. I love Action Pistol, and its a shame to see so much apathy about it, especially from the people who should be promoting it. You have a great group of core shooters that i see at almost every match. But new blood is sorely lacking anymore and it wont survive without it.
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268 shooters finished the match in 2015 (doesnt include no shows, DQs, etc...)It wasnt even the prizes per se, its things like Troy (finished 2nd overall to Doug) and Cherie (finished 2nd ladies) getting these cheap looking medals that look like low grade participation medals i got 25 years ago for club soccer when i was a kid. I would have been insulted. The plaques they handed out for 4th International were nicer. They also altered the rules to 1 award per 5 in Metallic/Production classes. No such rule existed last year, and amazingly enough, turnout in both groups was down. Production was down almost 50% in terms of shooters vs last year.
Do we have the comparison numbers between last year's competitors and this year?
114 Open shooters
59 Metallic
90 Production
2016 was 205 total (down 63)
114 Open shooters (no change)
47 Metallic (down 12, almost 20%)
44 production (down 46, over 50%)
If money was TRULY the issue, why was it taken away from the 2 groups that get the lowest amount of total prizes to begin with? The only two groups hurt by the dumb 1:5 rule were Metallic/Production. Why would they print 50th place payout when it would take 250 production shooters (an insanely unrealistic number) to cover that? I dont buy it. It is the NRA. Money is never an issue for them. Unless it is their intent to only award prizes to the people who can already shell out $5000 for an open gun.
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This (unsure for next year though).I thought the competition portion of the match went very well as usual. The staff was fabulous! I enjoyed watching the championship match and felt like match X should have been a qualifying match only and not an aggregate. It would have been exciting knowing it was possible for any of the 36 to win the cup. The awards dinner was another story.. The evening felt rushed and a lot of the disappointment with prizes could have been negated with better communication. That to me seems to be the biggest issue with this match...communication. And how hard is it to walk to the room next door and pick up plaques to give out during the ceremony. Really cheapened a special night for a lot of people. The competition is what drives me and meeting all the shooters from around the world. Even with the negativity I can't wait till next year to try again!
Stephen
I did like the cameras for the mover.
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Solvent? This is the NRA we are talking about. Money isnt an issue. Desire to grow the sport, and connectedness with your competitors is the issue, and organization is a by product. They extended the match out to.....fill friday with a hastily put together side match?
Those that won awards found out quickly the NRA went cheap there too. They took doorprize items from years passed and used them instead of cash, even though the NRA solicited more cash this year than last. Where precisely did that go? Doorprizes cost them nothing because they were sponsor donated. And furthermore you now get into issues where those same prizes are asigned to people who cant use them or who get those same items for free from sponsorship. That is why cash or a prize table to choose from had always worked
The actual awards themselves were lacking. Chinsy medals for second overall? Cheap cop out. Last year they had smaller versions of cups. Heck the plaques for 4th international and some of the other side categories were nicer than those medals. I got plaques at regionals for winning skill classes. At the Bianchi cup, the NRAs premier event, i got a W-9 for the little prize money i did get, nothing else.
And if sponsors saw the writing on the wall, and donated less as you are claiming, they obviously see what the shooters are seeing and the NRA is failing to see. Paying out deep in to production was an incentive to get more production shooters to show, because, what is the point of shooting production otherwise? Your scores will be lower than the open shooters, making you less likely to get prizes. The cup at one point was down to like 50-60 TOTAL. We had almost 300 last year. Production class was not far off of open for attendance. In one year it was down 50%. Cheaping out on every aspect is not the way to grow your base. Production is your grass roots. This years issues arent going to help that one bit. In fact it is doing a good job of discouraging even veteran shooters from wanting to come back. Entrance fees and hotel alone are already now a $1000 affair. Watching the NRA go cheap and not even attempt to grow the sport is a slap in the face. The pro shooters will always be the pro shooters. Im not advocating everyone getting awards. Im simply asking, if it wasnt broke, and was working, why did you decide to break it?
The NRA needs to take a page from the organizers of a lot of these regionals. They are better organized, cheaper, and more fun in a lot of cases. With the resources the NRA has, this should never be the case.
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I do think the awards payout system of one award per X number of entries used this year at Bianchi was fair.
I would respectfully disagree. That awards format, combined with eliminating the random prize drawings during the banquet is a dis-incentive for anyone who isnt a professional to show up, as your prize potential is next to nil, and the costs are high. You wont ever get casuals to show up without incentive, which is why attendence was down a lot this year.
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It wasnt even the prizes per se, its things like Troy (finished 2nd overall to Doug) and Cherie (finished 2nd ladies) getting these cheap looking medals that look like low grade participation medals i got 25 years ago for club soccer when i was a kid. I would have been insulted. The plaques they handed out for 4th International were nicer. They also altered the rules to 1 award per 5 in Metallic/Production classes. No such rule existed last year, and amazingly enough, turnout in both groups was down. Production was down almost 50% in terms of shooters vs last year.
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It's interesting to me that there seems to be nobody excited and chattering about the Bianchi Cup like years past. Anyone who attended interested in letting the rest of us know how it went?
Chris
The match itself was fine. The format change i could take or leave, as some people who led after the first day lost overall due to the second day. I liked the live broadcast on the mover finals, that was a very nice way of making use of technology. Essentially they set up a jumbo-tron in the two upper movers area, and had live video on the targets so you could see the hits as they were shot. If there was ever a good way to make AP more spectator friendly, this was it and id like to see greater use of this in the future.
The match wasnt really the issue. The awards/prizes were the issue. I wont go in to detail in mixed company, but needless to say they managed to piss off a LOT of people, and not just for monetary reasons. Im meaning long time, established shooters, not just production scrubs like me. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of it. Im not done with Action Pistol as I love the sport, i love the regional matches, the shooters, the camaraderie, and so on. For instance George put on a great region at the Crawfish Cup and the reception was overwhelmingly positive minus a small plates malfunction (which was no ones fault). My attendence to this match (Bianchi) specifically next year is in serious doubt after what happened, not that the people in charge will really care about me per se.
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Seems rather easy to game, and it isnt free. Id rather shoot than be bored but $50 bucks a head? Sigh. It would be too easy to stack teams and eho wouldnt run two open shooters?
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Not to be a total downer but does the squadding seem a little ridiculous considering they increased the match length but everyone shoots only 3 days? I feel like im forking out extra hotel for the "priviledge" of sitting around doing nothing. Im not going to qualify top 4, obviously most shooters wont, so what is their logic behind this? Also noticing there are a lot of big names missing and not as many people registered vs last year. They dont seem to be doing much to encourage the "average" shooter. Costs more, less prize pool for the non elite folks. Not trying to start anti NRA sentiment because that has been beat to death already.
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I have been trying to up my plates score for a long time and im not getting any better (actually getting worse...). The farther 2 ranges are killing me badly. At a practice match today, I went 10 of 12 at 15 (both misses I rushed and knew it), I got 4 of 6 on my first set at 15 yrds, then 2 of 6 on the second set (un characteristic right there, but ok, chalk it up to bad luck, I normally do better). But at 20 and 25yds, I usually stand, and I barely clear 30 plates on an average run, so less than half if I do ok at 10 and 15 (best in a match ever was 35, ironically on my first ever), and those two distances always hurt me bad. TODAY, I tried going prone after some practice beforehand, and it went from bad to worse. For one, Im a bigger guy (6ft 1, 260), so I had to prone at 45 degrees to get my head down enough. As it turns out, this wasn't even enough and I had to raise the gun up so much to get a sight picture that I had to stack my right hand on top of a fisted left hand to get it high enough. This obviously was terrible for rhythm, speed, and stability. I cleared a total of 24 plates of 48 today, and again, 10 of those were at 10 yards. At 15, 20, 25 I went 14 for 36. Not good. Im not sure what to do. Im not accurate/consistent enough standing at those ranges to do well, and prone seems to be even worse. I am shooting a production gun, so no prone pad for me (Glock 34). Its not the gun, its not ammo, it isn't anything other than technique/me. I can slow fire them if I have all the time I need without that much issue, I just can't do it at timed at that range with any degree of accuracy. And prone seems to be counter productive/worse. Anyone have any ideas what to do? Should I keep trying prone? Something else? Just try standing even though it will probably always leave me mediocre?
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Rippin is one of my RL friends so he can troll me a bit
Im starting to get a bit nervous about it. I have yet to have a good barricade score and it is starting to shake my confidence a bit. Free handing only works so well until the distance is increased, at that point my uneven stance is making me string off the target. Left side is just as bad. The speed and off balance plus lack of stabilization is giving me 2-3 mikes per side after a full 48. That is waaaaay too many points to throw away. Left side, no matter how i position, my trigger finger knuckle has barely enough room to function. Ive tried some things at home but no dice. -
This might be better under the Bianchi sub forum if mods want to move it.
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Any exprienced action pistol shooters have techniques for right and left hand for the barricade stage? Particularly for non open guns where you dont have wings to mount. Ive shot the stage before and just never am quite sure what to do with my hands, or just shoot it free handed. Left side is particularly bad and needs improvement. Any advice is appreciated.
Im starting to get a bit nervous about it. I have yet to have a good barricade score and it is starting to shake my confidence a bit. Free handing only works so well until the distance is increased, at that point my uneven stance is making me string off the target. Left side is just as bad. The speed and off balance plus lack of stabilization is giving me 2-3 mikes per side after a full 48. That is waaaaay too many points to throw away. Left side, no matter how i position, my trigger finger knuckle has barely enough room to function. Ive tried some things at home but no dice.
Bianchi 2018
in NRA - Bianchi Cup
Posted
That is certainly what it feels like. But in that same token, why scuttle the ship and destroy a great event if that is your goal? Why not just come clean and hand it off?