AmmoGuy
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Posts posted by AmmoGuy
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sorry I put in 1490 vel my error it was 1470
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HS6 does a good job, been using it in my Caspian 38super comped gun with 115gr Rem JHP for years 9.6 gr gives around 1490 fps. Tried WAF with 124 gr JRN long time ago it worked very well. But prefer the 115s with HS6 works the comp well. Acc7 works but too dirty for me. Been wanting to try again WSF with 115s and 125s again because of the gas it puts out BUT beware WSF is temp sensitive as the temp rises the Vel drops. Never had that with HS6. Have fun.
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So Far in using Clays or Clay Dot, Same Load data gives roughly the same results as far as in FPS, Using mixed brass so have to expect never the same but so close to each other makes too small a dif.
Also remember 45 brass and others as you resize them the brass shrinks so the crimp will vary. But using a 230 TMJ Frontier 3.9 gives 750 fps and 3.8 gives 730 fps, And yes the extreme bullets wants .01or so more and the Berrys the same less. I did have a fairly big spread but that's due to the mixed brass, you name the brand and it's in the batch. Those results out of a Colt Series 70 NM using .002 to .003 crimp. Of course if all the same headstamp the spreads tighten right up and the 3.8 works great, Even works the new Glock 4th gen without problems.
One thing i"ve seen is that TightWad works even better then Clays using 200 LSWC but stinks with the 230 especially the FMJ's or plated 230's. Pressure peaks too fast.
Oh Well Have Fun.
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Is it a winner or forget about it?
I so far like it. Been loading 9MM 115 TMJ's with 5.6grs for 1160 to 1170 fps using mixed nickel O/F brass with 9+P brass mixed in, shoots accurate and clean, recoil about the same as my WSF 5.4 to a 5.5 load up to Factory spec. from what I see the 40 with 180 TMJ should need about 5.7 for major been using 5.6 to 5.8 WSF for many years. So far the CFE is not effected by heat as with WSF and WST which are, more testing to be done to verify. The 9's in my 5in 45 Gold Cup Series 70 conversion to 9MM. So far have done about 15,000 rds in the past few months with the CFE and everyone likes it, been using WSF for the past 10 to 15 years or so for my people.
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I am looking to get some loads made up for a SJC Glock 17 with an 11 Port Comp. After speaking with Steave over at SJC, they suggest I use WSF powder. I havent been able to find any, so I am looking to see what other people use.
Looking to load either 115's or 124's. I have Titegroup (For Minor Only), AA7, and Longshot on hand currently. I know AA7 wont really work, but has anyone used Longshot before?
The WSF with the 124 should not be a problem just give a good crimp. I've been playing around with CFE pistol with std 9mm with 115TMJ and the load is very close to what I use WSF, CFE in my 5in colt converted 45acp 5.6 grains I get 1165 to 1170 mixed O/F nickel brass, I was using 5.4 to 5.5 WSF for 1140 to 1160 area. I have in the past made Major using WSF with 124 gr bullets in my 38 super comp gun, it shot so soft. But beware heat causes WSF to lose vel so a 170 PF might not make it at the chrono stage. I did a little test with the CFE in 9MM 115gr had the brass in the sun, saw no diff when chronoed, more testing to be done using a digital temp guage to verify results. I don't shoot 9 major yet but plan to as the TJ super brass is too expensive to lose a lot, I have 1000's of O/F 9+P brass to use. Been shooting IPSC since the late 80's so been there, saw that and done that but alwalys room to learn more.
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I am reading Ben Stoeger's Practical Pistol: Fundamental Techniques and Competition Skills book. Ben recommends gripping the gun hard, but if I grip the gun as hard as I can, my hands start to tremor causing the front sight to move around. Is it really advisable to grip the gun so hard your hands start to tremor causing the front sight to move around?
Gripping hard, dosen't mean as hard as you can. Just hard enough so it does not restrict the trigger finger freedom of movement during multiple shots, if that causes trembling get a handgrip exerciser.
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I currently shoot a lot of USPSA in limited 40 major. My load is 180 grn with titegroup and I'm looking to try out some new loads using 165 and 200 to see what I like the best. Gun is a 40 custom from predator tactical with an sti frame and briley barrel. Anybody have load data I can try out?
Hey cg. I love WSF & WST over Titgroup, BUT they do lose vel when hot, the Titegroup seems harsh to me in either the 165 and 180 TMJ ( frontier ) and FMJs. I've been using CFE pistol for 9mm 115 and 124 TMJs seems nice as good as WSF and so far in testing had some 115 9s in the summer sun they got hot, but did not have a digital therm to see exact heat and the vel was the same as cool or normal. If I get to test with a 40 will give you the results, but I thinking that the 5.7 gr area will make 170 PF in a 5in with 180 TMJs and 5.8 area for the 180 FMJ.
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Im a CE and understand these analyses but I prefer to enjoy the shooting to forget for awhile the stresses of engineering. I tend to learn to manage recoil the empirical way. Lols!
As JWeber (and others) notes, different gunpowders produce different amounts of recoil, and it is tied to how much gunpowder is required to make a given velocity. The bottom line is that more gunpowder weight for the same velocity means more recoil. It turns out to be simple physics and is explained by conservation of mass. The mass of the gunpowder must also be added to the mass of stuff coming out the end of the barrel. More gunpowder means more mass in the ejecta = more recoil.
Mathematical formulas use the gunpowder charge weight to calculate recoil force. There are a couple of recoil calculators on the web, and links to them are posted below. You can find a discussion of the physics behind this at the Wikipedia website, also listed below. If you do the math and compare a fast gunpowder to a slow gunpowder that use very different charge weights for the same velocity, you can have as much as a 20-25% difference in recoil. That's quite a bit.
The article that JWeber refers to might be the one at this link:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/2014/07/15/measure-relative-handgun-recoil/
Compensators use the extra gas from large charge-weight gunpowders to reduce muzzle climb. That is explained and supported with data here:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/2014/04/09/compensators-pressure-gas/
Wiki Article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil#Including_the_ejected_gas
Recoil calculators:
Im a CE and understand these analyses but I prefer to enjoy the shooting to forget for awhile the stresses of engineering. I tend to learn to manage recoil the empirical way. Lols!
Great topic, so many scientific formulations, BUT everyone is forgetting to take into consideration the gun itself, metal or plastic how it's sprung not just the slide but also the main spring, also persons body weight.
If you need more energy to unlock and move the slide past the hammer then you will have more felt recoil. Next to consider is the powder not just how fast or slow but also how fast it pressure peaks, this is in conjunction with the bullet weight and making minor or major, shooting Standard or Open. Of course if a comped gun for major only a light bullet with slow powder within reason will do, as you need the gas and particles to work the comp.
Speaking only from my own experiance with some of the loads I've worked up over the years such as.
In a 45 ACP out of my Colt Gold Cup 15 lb spring with a 19 lbs main spring.
Clays does a good job with the 200 SWC and 230 FMJ.
Tightwad does to me a bit better job with the 200 SWC but not with the 230 FMJ. Both are fast powders but the diff lies in the pressure peak. Using the same charge say 3.7 grs the Tightwad will drive to a higher Vol but is about peaked out. The Clays does much better with the 230 FMJ. This relates to the perceved and felt recoil as I see it.. We all have a different perseption what is recoil.
And yes, shooting Std. in general the heavyer bullets as per caliber will prefer a fast powder but at what pressure peak.
When it comes to the light bullets,as per caliber some of the faster powders do work but using some of the medium burn powders ( not slow ) can do a better job with felt recoil. As stated above when it comes to comp loads everything changes.
I can do pages and pages of loads I've used but that's up to the each person to decide what he likes best. I know what I prefer and usually works for others.
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As JWeber (and others) notes, different gunpowders produce different amounts of recoil, and it is tied to how much gunpowder is required to make a given velocity. The bottom line is that more gunpowder weight for the same velocity means more recoil. It turns out to be simple physics and is explained by conservation of mass. The mass of the gunpowder must also be added to the mass of stuff coming out the end of the barrel. More gunpowder means more mass in the ejecta = more recoil.
Mathematical formulas use the gunpowder charge weight to calculate recoil force. There are a couple of recoil calculators on the web, and links to them are posted below. You can find a discussion of the physics behind this at the Wikipedia website, also listed below. If you do the math and compare a fast gunpowder to a slow gunpowder that use very different charge weights for the same velocity, you can have as much as a 20-25% difference in recoil. That's quite a bit.
The article that JWeber refers to might be the one at this link:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/2014/07/15/measure-relative-handgun-recoil/
Compensators use the extra gas from large charge-weight gunpowders to reduce muzzle climb. That is explained and supported with data here:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/2014/04/09/compensators-pressure-gas/
Wiki Article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil#Including_the_ejected_gas
Recoil calculators:
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Great topic, so many scientific formulations, BUT everyone is forgetting to take into consideration the gun itself, metal or plastic how it's sprung not just the slide but also the main spring, also persons body weight.
If you need more energy to unlock and move the slide past the hammer then you will have more felt recoil. Next to consider is the powder not just how fast or slow but also how fast it pressure peaks, this is in conjunction with the bullet weight and making minor or major, shooting Standard or Open. Of course if a comped gun for major only a light bullet with slow powder within reason will do, as you need the gas and particles to work the comp.
Speaking only from my own experiance with some of the loads I've worked up over the years such as.
In a 45 ACP out of my Colt Gold Cup 15 lb spring with a 19 lbs main spring.
Clays does a good job with the 200 SWC and 230 FMJ.
Tightwad does to me a bit better job with the 200 SWC but not with the 230 FMJ. Both are fast powders but the diff lies in the pressure peak. Using the same charge say 3.7 grs the Tightwad will drive to a higher Vol but is about peaked out. The Clays does much better with the 230 FMJ. This relates to the perceved and felt recoil as I see it.. We all have a different perseption what is recoil.
And yes, shooting Std. in general the heavyer bullets as per caliber will prefer a fast powder but at what pressure peak.
When it comes to the light bullets,as per caliber some of the faster powders do work but using some of the medium burn powders ( not slow ) can do a better job with felt recoil. As stated above when it comes to comp loads everything changes.
I can do pages and pages of loads I've used but that's up to the each person to decide what he likes best. I know what I prefer and usually works for others.
New to reloading 38 Super Comp
in 9mm/38 Caliber
Posted
Do Not use plated bullets in a comped gun, stops any chance of the plating pulling off and lodging at the comp. This is only a rule mine, stick to JHP also to reduce leading in the comp. As far a powder goes, HS6, 3N38, Acc7 works, as a few others tough choice as to which you prefer to feel and recoil. I prefer HS6 with 115JHP in my comped 38S Caspain. Have fun and be safe is the rule.