Buildit2
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Posts posted by Buildit2
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Just curious what firearm and length barrel you were shooting from.
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Hope to see more pistol powders make it down around Columbus. Only powders I've bought this year have been rifle powders (4227 and 3031).
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I've been testing powders for a while. Stay away from unique in my opinion. I've had good success with titegroup and longshot for all bullets and titewad for 115gr or lighter bullets. I've tried PB also but it is a very tight spec and results are all over.
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I tried Unique but it is just so dirty. Liked Titegroup but have stuck with longshot at about 7.2 to 7.7 grains for 185 grain JRN with either large or small primer cases. LP seems to produce about 900fps and SP is lower abound 850fps out of my Sig 1911 tach opp. In a pinch I would try PB as I use that for my 40S&W rounds and it works well. I would be interested to see a recipe for 45acp using trail boss, but I think it would take too much to make it work well.
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Aside from an over charge, the next big thing that I see causing kabooms is bullet setback. If a bullet ends up being pushed into a case very far the room for the explosion is drastically reduced and pressure skyrockets. Most reloaders never check for setback and I have proven to a few folks on here that it is worth checking. Some who swear they have never had the issue have done a quick test and found that their bullets will push into a case by hand quite easily. That is the only reason I use a Udie. My rounds have always chambered fine even with my dillon sizer die but only the Udie will give me the neck tension I need to hold MG bullets tight in FC brass.
I wish everybody reading this would take a minute and grab a handful of their reloads and push one at a time against their bench. Measure before and after. If they shrink you need to look at fixing that somehow.
That is good information and worth everyone looking at. I think the double charge is just an easy excuse and get a lot of the blame weather it is or isn't the real cause.
As for an expert, I guess I am thinking someone who works for the gun makers developing, testing and analyzing the guns under all and any condition. As for covering things up, I am sure the threat of endless law suites is motivation enough. If it wasn't I'm sure examples like what Glock suffered at the hands of their initial negative introduction and Hi Point still suffer under makes the decision final. The public should not know of any issues with firearms that they themselves can not be blamed for. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I am already aware of one example where a Taurus firearm had a catastrophic failure and was covered by Taurus with no information disclosed on why it failed, just here's your money sign the agreement. So It does happen, I wonder how often?
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So what are the possible reasons for a KB that exclude human error with the powder charge? It seems we are all quick to say reloaders fault if it's reloaded ammo. I'm not a metallurgist so what signs of wear or stress are there in guns chamber or barrel? How important is the brass to the containment of the shot? Does the chamber fully support the brass or is the brass more important than that. What is the possibility of a bullet that is slightly over sized getting over crimped or causing too much back pressure exiting the barrel?
I never hear any of these items discussed but always hear the Human error side because most of the evidence for anything else disappears whit the KB. I also notice that most cases where firearms blow using factory ammo are not discussed much online and seem to disappear fast. I'd love to hear from a real gun expert on what other issues aside from powder overcharges can result on an explosion of the gun.
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I've been really liking the 405 gr jacketed soft nose rounds with 3031. Makes around 1600 fps.
On a side note I chronoed some of the Hornaday evolution 325gr rounds and was surprised. Most factory 45-70 rounds seem to chrono around 1200 to 1300fps. I assumed this was because they have to produce the ammo at the maximum pressure for all 45-70 firearms that might be on the market still. The hornaday rounds 2 of them came out at 1912 and 1867 fps. I don't buy the lever evolution ammo anymore since I started reloading as the cases are not standard length but it is interesting they have no warnings on the box about possible higher pressures other than they are made for guns originally chambered in that caliber. Sorry, back on topic....
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So since I started reloading I've had a lot of friends ask about starting up. Most want to start reloading for a single caliber and have that "I wanna try it and see if I like it" attitude. To that extent I put together two videos showing some less expensive options to the traditional press for reloading. The most inexpensive and slowest being the Lee Classic reloader that runs around $30.
Photo of a 45-70 round reloaded using a Lee kit
Then there is the time tested and true hand press. A little faster and not as hair raising for those who feel awkward about hitting a bullet with a rubber mallet. LOL
For disclosure I have used the Lee classic loading kits for 38spl, 45-70 and 223 successfully while the M1 30 carbine kits just don't work (I have tried three and all were returned).
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I've chosen Titegroup as my primary 9mm powder but have used titewad for short barrel rounds and PB or longshot for a slower burn.
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I've used 4.6 gr titegroup with 115 gr berrys JRN bullets and a COL of 1.150 + .005 to get 1100fps + 30 fps but that is with a G17. At 5.0 grains I was seeing 1250 fps with the G17 just for reference. I don't have results with this load for my G34 gen4. Sorry, but I hope this helps.
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I just see you going down the same road I did and it's an expensive one
the more you can borrow from the experiences of others, the fewer blunders you make yourself. I had never shot a compensated pistol until I shot the one I built myself, but these forums helped me quite a bit.Thanks, I guess the best thing to do is just shoot the gun.
In time I might find others nearby or figure something out. -
Are you shooting USPSA? Try to find someone shooting Open with a small frame gun (Glock, M&P, CZ) and shoot your loads in their gun, their loads in yours; then you'll know what your setup is capable of.
No, I've not become competitive yet and most of those I know who are shoot rifles. So for me this is all scientific experimentation and learning. I like to actually be good at something before I compete. LOL
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Well, here's the product info on mine.
The Lone Wolf 9mm Major compensator offers a unique advantage to the discriminating competitive shooter. This exceptional performance is accomplished in 2 simultaneous steps. First, the redirection of gas to a 30 degree rearward angle actually pulls the barrel forward, reducing felt recoil. Second, the redirection of gas vertically provides a genuine reduction in muzzle rise. The result allows the shooters sights to remain on target or realigned quickly providing faster accurate follow up shots.
Want your compensator custom engraved? Check out our custom engraving options here.
Popular choices are "Smile, Wait for Flash" and "Warning, Lead Poisoning" around the muzzle.
*Lone Wolf Distributors provides a quality engineered light weight system that delivers maximum performance at 1/2 the cost of similar compensators.- Fits standard LWD 9mm barrels threaded 1/2 x 28 models G17,17L,19,26,34.
- Will not fit any LWD 9mm conversion barrels threaded 1/2 x 28 models 22/9, 23/9, 24/9, 27/9, 35/9.
- We highly recommend the use of LWD stainless guide rod and ISMI standard power recoil springs (up to increased power) with this product.
- Light loads, reduced power loads and standard ammunition WILL NOT RUN RELIABLY. You must use +P, +P+, or 9mm Major loads with this compensator.
- 115 grain, light loads, or other weak ammo is known to not work reliably with this compensator. Reliability is affected more with tactical or long slides (Glock 34/35/24/17L).
- Approximate dimensions .75"H x 1.5" L x 1" W
- Steel construction with a dark charcoal parkerized finish that's superior to black oxide.
*Customers have reported these comps work great on Walthers
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Nice. There are three top ports, is that alot or not?
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The video is private
Sorry, public now.
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I'm glad to hear it, did you take video?
Probably not the result either of us were expecting.
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I'm glad to hear it, did you take video?
No, it's dark and cloudy so I was lucky to sneak out and get enough light for the chrono to operate. I'll make up 50 or so rounds and try to get some video next time I shoot.
As for the 115 gr, with the 124gr the powder almost fills the case to where the bullets base is. I know it's supposedly "okay" to crush powder in with the bullet but I like to avoid that if I can.
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I think you'll be pleased
So results are in. Using Berrys 124 gr JRN and 5.8 gr I averaged 1200 fps with no FTF or FTE's. However barrel flip was still evident so I upped it one spot on the disc to 6.3 gr long shot with the same bullets. Big reduction in flip it seemed and averaged 1275fps with the highest velocity reaching 1300 fps (124x1300= 161pf) just below a true major. As you can see from the photo there is no evidence of bulging primers or deformed brass. Looks like your advice worked Kneelingatlas, thank you.
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Longshot is the best of what you have but not great and you can have trouble gettin major without flattening primers. If your gonna shoot open 9mm major your best bet is to buy a suitable powder over trying to make due with what you have
While powders can be found getting the good ones is not as easy as you make it sound. Also it should be noted that the necessity of having a major is not necessary. This is more to obtain the greatest function and reduction of recoil from my compensator as I don't shoot competitive.
Sounds like a plan!
Five 124 gr rounds with 5.8-5.9 gr Longshot made and awaiting testing, hopefully tomorrow if the rain holds off.
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According to Hodgdon (http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html) LongShot is much slower than Unique, even slower than HS6, AutoComp and Silhouette (three favorites amount the 9 Major crowd).
LongShot should work the comp well although I suspect you'll start seeing some pretty flat primers before you make Major. Here's what I would do if I were you (I'm glad to see you working with a chrono
): Check your barrel and your mags to see how long you can load with your 115gr Berry's (I'm thinking ~1.145"), then load a handful of rounds at 6.0, 6.2, 6.4 and see where you're at. That should get you a safe baseline, then work your way up from there watching your primers to see how flat they get. Are you using pistol or rifle primers?Pistol primers (Rem 1 1/2). So far the best length for the G17 gen 4 is 1.150 + .005. I've never used Longshot in the 9mm but use it for 45acp. It uses less volume the unique and less grains to make a better velocity so I'm hopeing it would work the same way for 9mm. Hogdon is showing
6.0 1166 27,300 CUP as a max so I'll start there and work my way up till I find a load that works reliably. Then I'll see what the barrel flip looks like in video. -
Yes, Currently I am using Titegroup at 5.0 grains and developing 1300 fps with Berrys 115 gr JRN bullets and 1250fps with 124 gr Berrys JRN.
That's part of your problem. TG is a fast powder; if you were making those same velocities using HS6 or Autocomp you'd feel the effect of the comp much more. By the looks of your video you can barely tell the comp is there right?
Yes, the difference is barely noticeable. My powders on hand include PB, Longshot and Unique. I think Unique is the slowest burner but I doubt I can get enough in to make a decent velocity. So Longshot would be my next best immediately available option for a slower burning powder I think.
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Luke, I responded to your questions here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=183450&hl=
Thanks.
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Luke,
A compensator changes the way the pistol cycles because it delays the un locking of the barrel lugs and adds weight to the barrel, so yes there is less energy left to cycle the slide with any given load. There are two components to recoil: the rotational (muzzle flip) and the straight back (kick for lack of a better term); the gas diverted upwards out of the comp mitigates muzzle flip and the flat baffles impacted by the blast effectively pull the pistol forward, mitigating the push straight back.
So without the comp, the moment the bullet exits the barrel it unlocks and releases the slide; the energy of expanding gasses push the slide back and cycle the gun, but with the comp gas pressure is bleeding out the front of the barrel and pushing off the baffles delaying the unlocking of the barrel so by the time the slide is un locked, there is relatively little energy left to cycle the slide.
Back to a "good load" for the comp: the comp uses gas pressure to mitigate muzzle flip and recoil, so the more gas the better, but not all powders produce the same amount of gas. The principles at work are essentially opposite when choosing a powder for a compensated pistol and a plain muzzle pistol and since the vast majority of pistols which shoot commercially loaded ammo do not have compensators on them the powder used in that 'off-the-shelf' ammo is pretty much the worst possible to achieve your goals.
You want slow burning, low density powder, but factory ammo uses fast burning, high density powder because that's what creates the most velocity with the least recoil. Do you reload?
Yes, Currently I am using Titegroup at 5.0 grains and developing 1300 fps with Berrys 115 gr JRN bullets and 1250fps with 124 gr Berrys JRN.
the more you can borrow from the experiences of others, the fewer blunders you make yourself. I had never shot a compensated pistol until I shot the one I built myself, but these forums helped me quite a bit.
TiteGroup Chronograph Runs (135g and 147g Bullets)
in 9mm/38 Caliber
Posted
Thank you both.