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zfields
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Posts posted by zfields
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Was looking for a measurement on the factory M&P 2.0 CORE front sight. Top of slide to top of the blade.
Thanks
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The difference here guys is we aren't "trying" to get the handles made, we ARE making the handles ourselves. Production isn't a question. Doug has a full service machine shop, we aren't trying something new in the garage.
Look. I realize you have a shop, that has nothing to do with it.
What I'm trying to tell you is there is there appears to be variance from gun to gun on the size and style of the stock handles, this effects how it locks into the bolt. Just because it works on your gun, there is a posibility it may not work on others. Before you kick into production, you may want to send a few out to test on other guns to be sure that this issue wasn't just isolated to mine and Kyle's 712s
I'm trying to tell you what we went through, and hopefully something you can avoid.
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Hope it works out. If so I'll be picking one up.
What exactly wouldn't work with it? It works great on my gun. What would make it not work for others??? Just curious as to what you're thinking.
Because it seems that the stock handle varies between guns a bit. Mine for example is dimple cut. And the demos I had made with the full slice down it don't work.
IIRC Kyle ordered a second stock handle from cz, and it varied from his original.
I'm not trying to talk down on this, but I was trying to get handles made and it just didn't pan out.
sent from my damn tappy device...
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Hope it works out. If so I'll be picking one up.
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This handle was produced exactly the same way the factory handle was in terms of installation and lockup. If your factory handle works, so will this one.
Well I can tell you for sure, my factory handle has a detent cut. That was part of the reason the second handle I was working on didn't work.
From what Kyle's experience is working off a plan that fit my gun, it would not fit his.
Just giving you what our experience was in trying to get a working handle.
sent from my damn tappy device...
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Extended charging handles are in the works. Here is a quick picture of the prototype that will be available. The final product will be cerakoted (maybe anodized) in black. Please let me know if you would be interesting in purchasing one.
Quick cell phone pic for reference.
Just from our bad experience in this so far, I really hope that cut in the bolt lock up is doing to be a detent, and not a channel like in the photo.
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CZ is really good on sending out free spares. They sent me an extra lifer NC.
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Well, that would sure make it a real joy to do any after market for it.
Just curious, what was the diameter measurement of the stem going into the bolt?
would have to go measure it again...the 3rd set made required a more rounded lead-in angle for the retainer ball
That is odd. Wonder why this is nordic stopped messing with them.
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Well, that would sure make it a real joy to do any after market for it.
Just curious, what was the diameter measurement of the stem going into the bolt?
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Here is the latest on the handles..First shop i took them to would build them but wanted a minimum order and they came in at too much per unit to make it feesible. $50 my cost each one with a 100 count first order..(no way).
Next shop i had quote them came in at about $15 each minimum order to start of 20..(cool).. lets do it ..I had them make a cpl. to test before going straight to production..good thing because they were not remotely close to working although they looked really good...Second go around on a pair of sample ones were much closer but diameter a bit large yet..3rd time the handle looked and went into the bolt great! (except) the bolt wouldnt cycle at all after it went in..I had to dismantle everything to get the handle out of the bolt..after more measuring and some file work it went in and cycled the bolt good.
So to finish this off the machine shop said they were NO LONGER interested in doing the job...
Anyway , the only thing i have to show for this is a shotgun full of scratches and some dents in the stock (all recieved when the 2nd set of handles stuck in the bolt and had to be roughly extracted)
But i do have 2 bolt handles that do work..I'm keeping one of coarse but the second will maybe put up for grabs..
To be honest guys while doing all this work i bouhgt a new Berretta 1301 comp. in 24" to run , using my CZ-712 as a back-up .
I'm really confused all that happened, considering the original ones I had made off identical measurements for the bolt lockup would fit, but the angle leading to the barrel started to soon by like .5mm.
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Do we have a time frame when these will be available.
Nothing in stone. USMC is waiting on the demo parts to be made, then we need to test them for function.
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This thread is getting WAY too long. Put up a polldaddy poll and let's get 'er done. You can cross post it on the CZ forum and the shotgunner forum.
But if you really want to count all these things here....naked stainless for me.
Myself personally, don't really want to cross post it mainly because I don't want to be banned for commercial posting : )
If someone else wants to, the more we can get ordered, the lower the price point we can get on them. What I will probably end up doing is setting up a section on my website to get an order count in and pre-payment once we finalize
the design and color.
Sounds good, let me know if I should post in the CZ Shotgun section on the CZ forum.
That would be great, I'll jump in over their also. I'll see if I can remember my login for Shotgunworld also, huge Huglu section there.
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is there a "right now" price point for this handle?
~ 40. Small production runs ain't cheap.
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This thread is getting WAY too long. Put up a polldaddy poll and let's get 'er done. You can cross post it on the CZ forum and the shotgunner forum.
But if you really want to count all these things here....naked stainless for me.
Myself personally, don't really want to cross post it mainly because I don't want to be banned for commercial posting : )
If someone else wants to, the more we can get ordered, the lower the price point we can get on them. What I will probably end up doing is setting up a section on my website to get an order count in and pre-payment once we finalize
the design and color.
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It would be A LOT easier if people just emailed it over my way, then I can get an accurate list going that I can send over to USMC once we figure out everything.goodmanac, on 11 Sept 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:
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Personally, my vote is for stainless. But we want to do what will be more popular for somewhat obvious reasons : )
My vote would be for stainless too, but you're right, whatever everyone else wants!
So, for the people that have already replied saying they want one, can you please go back and edit your responses to add your finish preference?
Thanks.
zfields@sandstormsystems.com Subject : CZ 712
Emailed CZ-USA about carrying it the other day
I got an email response from CZ-USA today asking for details. Hopefully something can happen with this.
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We need to cross post this on some other forums and see if we can get into the 30-50 unit range.
I talked to USMC90 last night and we now have the option of having it black oxide dipped. If we are going to do this though, ALL of them need to be.
Won't the stainless on stainless look better? Both finishes should hold up just as well I woul think.
A cross post would be good on the CZ Shotgun Forum section.
Personally, my vote is for stainless. But we want to do what will be more popular for somewhat obvious reasons : )
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We need to cross post this on some other forums and see if we can get into the 30-50 unit range.
I talked to USMC90 last night and we now have the option of having it black oxide dipped. If we are going to do this though, ALL of them need to be.
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The design is fully done in solidworks, it's kicking it over to a 2d drawing type deal that I can't manage. But we might be able to work off of a mastercam 3d model, if thats the case I can get it converted over.
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I'm going to be sending over a mastercam copy of it tonight to him, hopefully that will clear it up.
Beyond basic paper drafting, and simplistic CAD, I'm not to up to snuff on all the new stuff. Solidworks was all I could figure out.
If we still can't get it over with him, I'll toss you a line and maybe ya'll can get it in a format he can work with.
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Hello guys,
I picked up my 712 utiltily from the FFL last night, took it apart and cleaned it (it's almost like they put dirty oil on new guns). I used some EWL 30; should work great. It looks very nice.
I have not got to shoot it yet. Hopefully tomorrow.
Questions:
- Does anybody make a tactical charging handle for this shotgun?
- If for some reason my picatinny rail adapter does not fit, does the front bead unscrew? (I ordered tom buster II hi viz sights as well. )
Updates/additional info
- I found a Sun Optics universal cantilever picatinny rail SM6175 so ordered it and hopefully it will be here this week.
- I got this video in last night for shotgunning basics. I actually was able to order it from the brian enos store via amazon. (have not watched it yet) http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003132S94/ref=pe_385040_30332190_pe_175190_21431760_3p_M3T1_ST1_dp_1
- Also, for reference, mine is indeed a 2013 model (serial number begins with 13). and came with 5 chokes.
Good to hear buddy!
Nordic Components had a short run of charging handles made for it, they told me to just check ever so often on their site: http://www.makereadyproshop.com/product-p/nc-blt-hndl-cz.htm
Half of this thread was about trying to get a new stainless bolt handle manufactured, one day maybe!
I do not believe the front bead unscews.
Good pick on the shotgun video and good to know you got the 2013 model!
We're working on it! USMC90 and I are trying to get on the same page with the drawings. Solidworks doesn't play nicely with a lot of CAD software out there!
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Please learn the good old fundamental stuff before moving onto "tactical" techniques and what not.
We are here to help, thanks for taking interest in recreational shooting!
Big +1 on this. The magpul videos don't really show any basic stuff.
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I'm running a 712 als with 28 inch barrel Nordic +4 tube. the gun is two months old. I shot a 50 round shottie competition last Sunday. This match would be like the shotgun only portion of a 3gun match.
Ammo used: 3 Winchester slugs unknown velocity. for birdshot I used Wal-mart bulk pack Federal 3dram, 1 1/8 ounce, 7 1/2 shot running at 1200 fps
Recoil during the match? looking back to during the match the answer would have to be... recoil? what recoil? target to target transitions were smooth and there was very little if any muzzle rise.
Reliability. %100
Sights? mine had a 1/4 inch green fiber optic on the front hardly noticed it, A buddy had 1.5 inch long fiber optic on his SX3 that glowed so bright that ur eye was drawn to it. It was a Hi Viz magnetic mount. I will be looking for one of these.
Good shooting gun.
Thanks for this info Aleric. I went to the shop yesterday and looked at the utility. Got shy about recoil, came home and did some more reading.
On the way home I checked out to see what loads walmart stocks and they have the exact same loads/boxes you are referring to. 100 rounds for $20.
Thanks very much I think you have calmed my fears on recoil; I don't mind spending the $80 on that stock.
I think I'm going to have to order it now for sure.
Don't take this in a mean/rude way, but recoil on a standard loads from a semi auto 12ga is a joke.
That's good to hear. Remember I'm a noob with shotguns.
I've never shot a semi 12. Only a semi 20 Rem 1100, I'm thinking the 712 should be similar or slightly more. And it was not bad at all. The mossberg 500 12 that I shot kicked pretty good.
I think with that ALS stock I should definitely be comfortable.
Handling recoil is all about how you shoulder the gun. I was shooting 12ga when I was about 10 years old with no issues (granted I was a hearty little bastard).
If you haven't check out a skeet clinic, no better way to learn how to get a gun managed under recoil IMO.
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I'm running a 712 als with 28 inch barrel Nordic +4 tube. the gun is two months old. I shot a 50 round shottie competition last Sunday. This match would be like the shotgun only portion of a 3gun match.
Ammo used: 3 Winchester slugs unknown velocity. for birdshot I used Wal-mart bulk pack Federal 3dram, 1 1/8 ounce, 7 1/2 shot running at 1200 fps
Recoil during the match? looking back to during the match the answer would have to be... recoil? what recoil? target to target transitions were smooth and there was very little if any muzzle rise.
Reliability. %100
Sights? mine had a 1/4 inch green fiber optic on the front hardly noticed it, A buddy had 1.5 inch long fiber optic on his SX3 that glowed so bright that ur eye was drawn to it. It was a Hi Viz magnetic mount. I will be looking for one of these.
Good shooting gun.
Thanks for this info Aleric. I went to the shop yesterday and looked at the utility. Got shy about recoil, came home and did some more reading.
On the way home I checked out to see what loads walmart stocks and they have the exact same loads/boxes you are referring to. 100 rounds for $20.
Thanks very much I think you have calmed my fears on recoil; I don't mind spending the $80 on that stock.
I think I'm going to have to order it now for sure.
Don't take this in a mean/rude way, but recoil on a standard loads from a semi auto 12ga is a joke.
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Great, thank you for the info.
Shotgun shells are pretty easy to find everywhere for me...9mm and the magical unicorn .22LR are still very hard to find in Dallas. (but i don't stand in line at 6am either)
Aint much easier to find down here either.
M&P Core front sight height
in S&W (M&P, etc)
Posted · Edited by zfields
Interesting. I called S&W today regarding the 11826 SKU, and they said .270 from base of dovetail to tip of blade.
That seems to be in the middle of what the factory "standard" sight height is, and the size on your 5" CORE.