K37
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Posts posted by K37
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For what it's worth, I'm relatively new to reloading, but I used the depth probe on my digital calipers to measure the max seating depth for each individual bullet that I load.
1. With a cleared weapon, completely assembled, carefully insert the digital caliper depth probe into the barrel until it touches the breach face and adjust the caliper so the base of the main scale is touching the end of the barrel.
2. Zero the caliper and remove.
3. Remove the barrel, drop a bullet into the chamber, flip the barrel pointing up with your finger gently holding the back of the bullet into the rifling/lead.
4. Insert the digital caliper depth probe into the barrel again until it stops on the tip of the bullet and read the measurement.
The average of several bullets should give you an average depth for that bullet to the lead or rifling. Subtract the necessary length for reliable feeding, accuracy and to account for your loading errors and you should have your maximum OAL for that bullet in that barrel with that amount of wear.
Please let me know if someone has used this method before and knows any issues with it. It seems to work for me and doesn't require anything other than a digital caliper with a depth probe.
Kenrick
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I'm not a gunsmith but the same thing happened to me this weekend at a match with my XD-M. The symptoms I noticed while actually shooting the match were identical, but when I shot it at the range and could notice more of what was happening, I noticed that the sticker was resetting but my reloads with the bullet I was using were too long and the round was preventing the slide from completely chambering the rounds. Because the slide wasn't all the way forward, the striker looked like it wasn't reset and the gun wouldn't fire. When I racked the slide, it provided just enough force to seat the round at the grooves. I went home, ran all them though the seating die to reduce the OAL by .010 and all fired without an issue today at the range. When I was at the match, everyone watching thought it looked like the sear spring as well because of the symptoms. Of course barrel checking the reloads would have prevented all this.
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Just for your reference when you get the sight installed: Your old sight takes up approximately 81% of the rear notch and with a .100 it will take up about 58% of your factory rear sight at extension. I went with a .156 rear and .125 front, giving the same percentage and am extremely satisfied. Your front blade will only take up about 3.7" at 25 yards as opposed to my 4.6". .085 front with factory rear will give you approx. 49%
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The front sight is .140 wide. I replaced my sights and didn't get the right ones back so I can't measure the height for you. I did the same thing it sounds like you're trying to do when I was trying to decide what replacement sights to get. If you want I've got numbers for different front/rear sight combinations, the width of the light on each side that you'll see and the percentage that the front sight will take up in the rear notch (of course this is based on my arm length at full draw). This helped me decide on my replacement sights since there wasn't anywhere I could go to look at the sights I was looking at.
Kenrick
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And you can also change the trigger position on an XDm, right? I have short fingers.
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:I don't suggest a best trigger weight for anyone, but if you learn to rely on your skills and make good habits, you can grab a gun with a 1# trigger or a 8# trigger and do what you need to do SAFELY. If you rely on trigger weight to prevent "something" bad from happening, you limit your ability to be safe.
You can change the take-up, trigger weight, and reset to put it in the most simple terms, correct? What do you think is the most beneficial to a USPSA (non Open) or IDPA shooter?
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Yes.
A 4# trigger is the industry standard floor for carry triggers on single action 1911's historically and that is why we set that as our break point in trigger weight. What you choose to carry is your choice, we just have to make a label for business/service purposes. We do add a little more pre-travel on the carry jobs.
I can pretty much guarantee you that under stress a 4,5,6# trigger won't prevent an AD if you have your finger on the damn trigger when you shouldn't and to hear people say a reasonable light trigger (3# range) is more dangerous than a 4.5# trigger does not compute if the work was done properly.
Scott, thanks for your reply. You guys have been extremely patient with all my questions concerning your work and I'm certainly going to send my XD to you in the next week or so. Having been in the Infantry early this decade definitely drove home the concept of tactical patience and the principle of not pointing your weapon at anything you didn't intend to destroy; however, I've only had to shoot a military M-4, 92F and a stiff, push-button trigger for an automatic weapon and rockets on an aircraft and really didn't have a healthy respect for a light trigger with little take-up. Your first post really answered the question for me. One needs to get a trigger comparative to their level of experience with respect to what they intend to use the weapon for. I haven't shot competitively and only have experience with heavy, loose triggers in high stress situations, so I'm going to opt for your carry trigger job with a 4-5# trigger and reevaluate more trigger work later. Ultimately, I was missing the fundamental point here: It's the person and his experience behind the weapon that matters in this situation, not the weapon itself.
I apologize for leaning this topic towards the carry debate. Although, based on my past experiences, I believe this is a healthy debate, I didn't intend this particular topic to go this direction. My only hope was to get some opinions from various experiences regarding recommendations on pistol work for dual purposes.
Thank you all, Kenrick
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This is why I put this question up to the forum, because I hadn't considered a lot of the issues you guys are bringing up due to my lack of comp experience. I didn't consider the gun reliability issues that Gman was talking about and I see what Resjudicata is saying. I think that's probably the best compromise; to get the "carry trigger" work from SP and get used to it. I'm going to reload as soon as my press gets here and will definitely keep my all of my ammo pretty much the same. I certainly don't want to have to change anything out...I'd like to be able to shoot a match and turn around and carry it wherever I'm going. Don't worry, I'm not taking any of this as legal advice as this isn't an appropriate professional legal forum for that. I'm taking all of this as advice from people with varying backgrounds who all have experience in competition shooting and familiarity with numerous weapons with modifications.
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I was trying to leave the legal situation out of the topic even though it's certainly tied into my questions, just so we all don't go off on that tangent. I appreciate everyone's comments because I don't have much experience with competition tuned pistols. I think I'll probably end up erring on the conservative side and getting some trigger work, but nothing like a full competition trigger job. I'm probably going to have to just play around with other people's guns to get a feel for different triggers before I start really tuning my action. Like kmca said, I'm never going to get the 1911 trigger on my XD(m) anyways.
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I dont mind take up in a trigger, especially a single action feeling/like trigger. I think over travel is more of a concern for my accuracy. But Im a Beretta devotee at heart and thats a whole different thing when you concern take up.
I had Scott do an XD trigger for me and when i sent him the same gun back for additional mods I had him convert the trigger back to a carry type, his light weight was too light for my preference. I think the carry trigger got smoother over time, and is actually pretty light, as light as any trigger I think I will ever need.
If its a carry/match gun I think Id have to recommend keeping it a litle heavier than match weight. If Scott offers any heavey duty parts (he used to) Id include those as well.
My XD tactical has had appx 60,000 rds through it and has broken a few times...
You don't happen to remember what weight you originally requested from him prior to sending it back, do you?
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You're carrying in a good holster that covers the trigger, right?
Interestingly, I discussed (socially - this is not legal advice) this with an attorney friend, who suggested that if he were to defend me in a SD shooting, the fact that I regularly competed and shot thousands of rounds per year through the same gun would be a pretty strong argument in my favor. His thinking was that the court would focus more on one's status as an "expert" shooter than they would the specifics of what sort of gun one used, and that that would be a good thing.
I hadn't thought about it that way. I do have a holster that covers my trigger. I'm only asking because I'm not sure what weight my 1911 trigger is, so I'm not sure what I should bring my XDm's trigger down to (I do know I would like it lighter, I think stock is about 5 1/2#) and was just looking to see if anyone else competes with their carry pistol.
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I'm not so worried about the legal aspect of the trigger work; I'm more concerned about the safety aspect of carrying a pistol around a lot with a competition trigger even if the weight is 3.5-4#. I've read that the weight of the trigger isn't as important as how crisp it is, the reset and of course how much you dry fire/practice with it. I guess a better question would be for those of you that have a competition trigger on a gun similar to an XD, would you feel comfortable carrying the weapon safely or is it really not that big of a difference to compete with a pistol that still has a little take-up left in it?
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I've got a new XD(m) 9mm that I'd like to carry and compete in USPSA Production and possibly IDPA. I've got a lot to work on with respect to shooting skills, but I'd like to start out with a trigger job and sights that I'm going to compete with for the long term and something that feels more like my 1911. I called Springer Precision with questions about their two trigger jobs (competition vs. carry). They said the basic difference was the amount of take-up they left in the trigger. What is everyone's recommendations about whether I should get the competition trigger job vs. the carry trigger job and should I get the weight reduced to something around 4#s? Regardless of who I get to work on the trigger, what should the trigger be like after the work for a carry/comp gun?
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Thanks, will try
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10 Ring, I'll try that, hopefully tomorrow. I hope this fixes it, because it's extremely frustrating.
CocoBolo, I definitely have a blinking problem when I'm not completely focused on it which I know will eventually go away with continued work. I do double up on hearing protection and it helps considerably. I'm going to try the bill drills at the next range along with 10ring's advice.
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I have the same problem (my support hand stays, the gun recoils and my supporting hand grip consequently breaks). I've tried several techniques in this topic to to correct this. I originally tried friction tape, then skate tape (which only leaves a nice seeping wound on my upper support hand palm). I've tried to loosen my overall grip to release tension in my wrists hoping that my support hand would follow the recoil (as at this point I'm not concerned with reducing recoil, just keeping my grip together and allowing the sights to come back to the same spot). This seemed to help some, but after about 3-4 rounds, my support hand had shifted out of the grip again. I don't know if this is due to me tightening my grip on subsequent shots or not, but I am trying to take slow controlled shots and not muscle the grip with my strong hand. I've also tried really bearing down on my support hand grip, which also seems to help for a couple shots, but seems to create more tension in the rest of my upper body. I've gone through about 800 rounds trying to correct this problem and only this problem to no avail.
I'm definitely dedicated to the grip that BE describes in his book. It's worked well to improve my accuracy and sight picture. It was a little foreign to me in the beginning and felt awkward; however, for those who golf, if you change your grip and it feels comfortable, then you haven't really changed your grip.
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Beretta Lover, I'm going to have to take a stronger look at Ameriglo. I've been reading quite a bit of good reviews on this site about them. At least I know that DP isn't going to stiff me on sights if I order some with them and have a problem. Thanks for the reply.
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Thanks for the reply. I have definitely noticed that any rear sights other than black makes it harder for me to quickly focus on the front sight. I darkened out my rear white dots and that helps quite a bit. I'm wondering if rear black and front tritium will provide enough of a front sight reference point (i.e. the white glue around the tritium tube in the front) to aid in acquiring the front sight for quick shots while also allowing me to focus on the top of the front sight blade for accuracy. I have yet to see anyone running a black rear, front tritium, but I've read some posts on this sight to know that some are doing it. I'm definitely going with black rear. Thanks for the reply.
Kenrick
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What size are your sights that you have now, or what are they?
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Has anyone ever tried black rear with a tritium front during the day in competition? If so, does it aid in front sight acquisition during the day kinda like a less visible white dot?
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I recently purchased an XD(m) 9mm and plan to carry the handgun and begin competition in USPSA Production and later in IDPA. Obviously I'll end up acquiring more handguns in the future when I get more experience, but not anytime soon. I am going to get the trigger worked on and would like to get the sights replaced at the same time to start out learning competition on good equipment. I've read as many topics as I could over the last week concerning my questions but have not been able to nor do I anticipate being able to try different sights prior to sending my weapon away. My questions are:
SIGHT STYLES: I have a 1911 with Novak black on black sight which work well for me (regarding front sight focus and accuracy) during the day, outside, and against good contrast. Don't like the three dot factory XD(m) sights; however, with the rear sights blacked out, they're all right. What are you're opinions on practicality of carrying and competing with the various sights I'm considering:
-Black on Black
-Black rear, F/O font (with the flexibility to change to a less bright front (i.e. different color), take the FO out and either leave the hole or darken it in as desired in the future)
-Black rear, Tritium front (I'm not so concerned with the tritium front in a defensive situation, more as a compromise between a bright FO front and a black front as it
relates to sight acquisition and good sight focus/accuracy during long shots).
SIGHT WIDTHS: Based on my trigonometry and measurements (distance front and rear sights are from dominant eye, target distance...etc.) a .100 front sight (on my weapon) will cover 3.5" @ 25yds, .115 4" @ 25yds, .125 4.5" @ 25yds, and .150 5.4" @ 25yds. This obviously effects a greater level of accuracy or target acquisition with a smaller front sight but my concern is also how front sight width will affect me in a carry situation.
Similarly, I've noticed that ,with my pistol sights being 6.6" apart and a measured distance from my dominant eye, most factory front sights take up approximately 75% of the rear notch when the weapon is sighted (.150 rear with a .150 front), most tactical/carry/tritium front sights take up approximately 64% of the rear notch when the weapon is sighted, and a little more with some (i.e. .140 rear, .125 front or .150 rear, .125 front, and most competition front sights take up approximately a little over 50% of the rear notch when the weapon is sighted (.125 rear with a .100 front or smaller). From what I've read a smaller percentage of the rear notch taken up by the front sight with the weapon drawn aides in quicker shots with a detriment to long range accuracy. And I'm not sure how a smaller percentage will affect its use when carried. Obviously durability is also an issue when carried.
I'm considering the Heinie Straight 8 .140 rear with a .125 front or a DP .125 fixed black rear with a .100 FO front (which could be modified as mentioned above). I like the Heinie LPI and wonder if the tritium dot would be a good compromise between white/FO on black, but I've read great things about the DP shallow rear notch and its good sight picture. I'm open to any suggestions. Does anyone have any experience with having to compromise between sights used for USPSA competition, IDPA and daily carry.
Thanks,
Kenrick
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I love this thread. I've been having the same problems with my XDm slipping up out of my support hand. I tried skate tape, then a grittier skate tape and only rubbed my left palm until it was bleeding. After reading this thread, I believe I'm too stiff from my wrists through my shoulders because I'm trying to muscle the pistol. My shot group is all over the place because (I believe after loading some dummy rounds) that I'm anticipating the recoil by tensing up everything in my upper body. Hopefully this helps at the range.
Best Trigger Option for my XDM 3.8 40
in Springfield (XD)
Posted
I have a 4.5" XD(m) 9mm that I used for competition and carry. I had springer do a carry trigger job with a 4.5lb trigger and put on Heine QWIK slant pro tritium sights. The trigger was significantly better than the factory with a little less pre-travel but still enough to not have to worry about an ND. I liked the sights for competition because of the ratio between the rear sight notch width and the front sight width (.156/.125) and they were great sights for a carry pistol. I've since bought a 5.25 and 3.8 compact in order to have a separate carry and comp weapon. This way I'm not limited in competition by what I feel comfortable carrying. I am going to use Springer Precision for my 5.25 and am going to install a Powder River trigger on my 3.8 for learning purposes and for a comparison in trigger jobs; however, if I am not happy with the PR trigger on my 3.8, I'm going to send it to Springer for the same work I had done on my 4.5". I don't believe that this forum is intended for legal discussion concerning carrying; however, I will say that there are many resources available to you so you can make a more informed decision concerning modifying your carry weapon. PM if you are interested.