[Squib rule in need of changing?]

So, under the rules, its assumed I did it on purpose and loaded a half-primer or soaked my powder in oil for that particular stage? Does that make sense?

Nowhere in the chapter re : Malfunctions- Competitor's Equipment supports your statement of ASSUMPTION! Everything that you'll use in the match is your RESPONSIBILITY. Too bad, we do suffer from unfortunate circumstances during a match that it should be so bad to warrant a change in the Rules. Before we even think of changing the Rules, gather enough evidence supported by solid facts that would back your theory that the Rule is inadequate.

Cheating is a mouse turd when compared to safety which is a mountain in this case. Just because cheating this way may have happened it really never enters my mind in a squib scenario

For clarification, the The first statement is lifted from the last paragraph of Post#1. i was merely trying to refute his statement.

[Squib rule in need of changing?]

So, under the rules, it’s assumed I did it on purpose and loaded a half-primer or soaked my powder in oil for that particular stage? Does that make sense?

Nowhere in the chapter re : Malfunctions- Competitor's Equipment supports your statement of ASSUMPTION! Everything that you'll use in the match is your RESPONSIBILITY. Too bad, we do suffer from unfortunate circumstances during a match that it should be so bad to warrant a change in the Rules. Before we even think of changing the Rules, gather enough evidence supported by solid facts that would back your theory that the Rule is inadequate.

[Ammo Catching @ match]

I would venture to guess that, in a class environment, having students constantly stooping over to retrive ejected rounds MIGHT be more of a risk than the OOBD.

Unless you pick up ejected ammo before you are holstered. i wont wait for my chance in the roll and cup technique versus briskly ejecting the last round.

[Ammo Catching @ match]

Is the case of open breech detonation well studied as to what really causes it? Is it limited to .40S&W only? I also flip my chambered round during ULSC precisely because of a deep fear for detonation. I'd rather have a broken gun than end up with a mangled hand.

Catching the ammo is not always done. Safety first.

[Passing through non scoring areas]

The only time the hit would not count would be if the no shoots were edge to edge. Then it is possible for the perfect shot to hit outside of each perf so that the shooter does not get a penalty but because the area under the no shoots would be considered unavailable they would not get a scoring hit out of it either. It would be considered a full diameter hard cover hit.

Perhaps I am misreading this.

Edge to edge no-shoots with a bullet striking right in the middle would score whatever is under the no-shoot non-scoring border (and probably both no-shoots). That type of no-shoot array is not a good idea..

Pardon my ignorance.... point of clarification.... in a stroke of luck, a perfect shot touched 2 no shoot targets, would the shooter be penalized for 2 no-shoots from a single shot? Yes.

A converse of this would be.... i once saw an array arranged in a N-S-E-W configuration and there were overlapping borders on the lower C and D areas. A shooter missed a shot in 1 of the targets but on the adjacent target, it broke touched the perf and touched the scoring area where a shot was missed. Question is, would a single shot earn a score for both targets? Very poor target placement but yes.

Thanks for clarification, Sarge!

[Passing through non scoring areas]

The only time the hit would not count would be if the no shoots were edge to edge. Then it is possible for the perfect shot to hit outside of each perf so that the shooter does not get a penalty but because the area under the no shoots would be considered unavailable they would not get a scoring hit out of it either. It would be considered a full diameter hard cover hit.

Perhaps I am misreading this.

Edge to edge no-shoots with a bullet striking right in the middle would score whatever is under the no-shoot non-scoring border (and probably both no-shoots). That type of no-shoot array is not a good idea..

Pardon my ignorance.... point of clarification.... in a stroke of luck, a perfect shot touched 2 no shoot targets, would the shooter be penalized for 2 no-shoots from a single shot? i wonder how big is the target behind to need 2 no-shoots to cover it?

A converse of this would be.... i once saw an array arranged in a N-S-E-W configuration and there were overlapping borders on the lower C and D areas. A shooter missed a shot in 1 of the targets but on the adjacent target, it broke the perf and touched the scoring area where a shot was missed. Question is, would a single shot earn a score for both targets?

[Adding a rug in the shooting area]

I think the rule clearly states this. When I took my RO class, Goerge talked exactly to this. If he puts a rug down, it's a procedural.

Rule 4.5.1

Would putting down gun bag be a procedural too.

4.5 Rearrangement of Range Equipment or Surface..... Did a rug rearrange the surface?

[Ammo not passing chrono]

Some shooters don't really man up to the responsibility of their equipment.

Going to a Major match is planned way ahead of time, and almost always

sufficient time to prepare and plan.

I guess they just want to blame everybody but THEM!

Personally, i'm not comfortable using ammo which i've not tested or had personal knowledge

on how it performs with my guns.

[When is a wall not a wall]

I think i saw a video of that. I would be okay with a shooter easing thru the window, but going under is another story.

But I believe, it should have been clarified in the WSB. There are set-ups sometimes that the lower portion of the wall

is deemed open and engaging targets are allowed.

Point taken.... Will keep that in mind. Honestly, we didin't expect a shooter to crawl under! LOL

[Backup Gun?]

Far from claiming of having more knowledge than our respected DNROI, i was just voicing my 2 cents. USPSA rules were almost lifted verbatim from the IPSC rulebook.

Not so sure that anybody has the monopoly of the CORRECT interpretation of all the rules. The original framers of the rules might have a different intention that what we are discussing right now.

Pretty much what i'm trying to say.... The Supreme Court Chief Justice is just but one vote of the whole Supreme Court.

[Backup Gun?]

On 6/30/2015 2:55 PM, Patrick Jones wrote:> If you drop to minor power factor in mid-match, either thru > chronograph or a substitute gun, can you now load your magazines to 10 > rounds in Single Stack division?> 

Certainly not, load in magazine is determined by caliber, not PF. Not making Major PF is no reason to load 10 in magazine.

It is the shooter's responsibility to make sure his ammo passes the test. i think USPSA is not in the business of rewarding shooters who fail the chrono test by allowing them to increase their magazine load unless they change and shoot a pistol of a lower caliber(9mm) but their scores will be recorded as Minor.

Using PF as a basis will surely be more than a handful in Level I matches where no chronos are done.

It scares me to think that our sport is full of gamers and cheats? just my 2 cents

[Backup Gun?]

So in the case of SS, I would just move down to minor scoring and use capacity. If I'm 5 stages into a 10 stage match then all 10 goes to minor scoring? (No If you start in Major you stay in Major)

But if I start with the 9mm minor and go to the major gun, I would rechrono and get scored major for the rest of the match or all 10 stages? (No If you start in Minor you stay in minor)

wait, what? Are you saying that if you have to switch to a minor gun for backup, you still stay in major because that's where you started? That can't possibly be what you mean, but it sounds like what you said.

Before you can shoot the remaining stages, an approval from the RM is in order. No approval would be a No Score. This has happened to one of our shooters.

[Starting outside the shooting area heels on marks]

The deal about shooting with one foot out doesn't fly because that is with any part of the body touching the ground outside the shooting area, so as not to gain an advantage. So why would we let you game it in reverse to gain an advantage? Since the person started with something inside the shooting area, don't care which part, they were not outside the shooting area therefore not in compliance with the WSB and I can not start them. I would tell them to get their foot outside box and refer to 8.2.2

If they wanted to argue, I would have them USC, move on to the next shooter, call the RM and he/she would tell them the same thing, or at least they should.

JT

Note: As long as nothing was touching the ground inside the shooting area and their heels were touching Xs, they would be in compliance with the WSB. So if say, the Xs were wide and they wanted to put their feet perpendicular, this would be in compliance with how it's written and would need clarification or stand.

The point some folks are making is if you have one foot inside and one foot outside the shooting area while shooting, the rules say you are outside the shooting area. So, if you have one in and one out at the starting position, you are also outside the shooting area. The WSB said outside, so that requirement of the start position is met.

I agree with you to have the RM make the final call. After that, roll with it.

Fallacy!

Nothing is better than God

Banana is better than nothing.

Ergo, Banana is better than God.