bbbean
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Posts posted by bbbean
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I can't seem to find the video. Could someone send me the link?
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Going to a first USPSA match with A, M & GM shooters should be an eye-opener for dern near any pistolero. The level of acquired skill is astonishing, if all you could compare yourself to before the match was the typical range drone who might shoot 10" groups at 12 yards..
Going to my first match with B C, and D shooters was an eye opener! I was certain I'd initially classify with a 75-85%, because I outshot all the other ditchbank shooters. By the end of that first match, I was pleasanty surprised to see I made it al the way to a 38% on my first classifier.
Getting back to the topic, though, I have noticed that guys who come out in hunting camo and gear tend to be better and safer than the guys who come out in tacticool gear. Something to be said for actually getting out and shooting your guns instead of just reading and posting about them.
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How many LE/MIL have we all seen show up with the expectation that because they are LE/MIL they can out shoot us only to get their butts handed to them. The true professional knows to NOT draw attention to themselves when not on duty.
The percentage of LEOs who overestimate their skills seems roughly equal to the percentage of non-LEOs who overestimate their skils, in my experience. Their reaction to discovering that they are not, in point of fact a natural GM is what tels me whether we'll ever see them at the match again. Those who complain about their gear, the stage, the sport, the rules, the weather, and everything except their own skill don't typically come back. On the other and, those who seek out the better shooters and start asking questions about technique and strategy tend to come back and enhance the match.
For whatever reason, most of the MIL shooters I've encountered have a more realistic idea of their skill levels. They still run the gamut from great to not-so-great, but they usually know where they are on that continuum.
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Just shoot the wheelgun, you'll have alot more fun.I see a couple more revolver shooters have signed up, glad to see I won't be the only one running the wheel.
I'm toying with the idea...
Did that convince you? I am looking forward to this match, it will be my first time shooting in TN.
I should warn you I've won revolver division at our last two club matches.
Wonder how I would have done if there'd been another revolver shooter?
BB
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I see a couple more revolver shooters have signed up, glad to see I won't be the only one running the wheel.
I'm toying with the idea...
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Why doesn't everbody just start shooting 127 average PF
Wrong model. PF is like the speed limit. They don't care that your average speed was below the speed limit, they care that they clocked you at 10 mph over the limit. Similarly, no one cares what your average PF is. The rule is that EVERY round you fire at a match should make PF, and the only way to do that is to make the average PF higher than the minimum PF.
That's exactly what I said: 127 average PF is greater than the 125 min PF.
Whether every round clocks in over the 125 PF "floor" depends on how consistently you reload your ammo, which in theory should yield a smaller SD.
That's not exactly what you said. In the real world, an average of 127 essentially guarantees rounds under 125. If you're lucky, those rounds all got used on paper, but there's a good chance a few of them will hit steel. That's why I argue that talking averages isn't useful for PF. Talking minimums is.
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Why doesn't everbody just start shooting 127 average PF
Wrong model. PF is like the speed limit. They don't care that your average speed was below the speed limit, they care that they clocked you at 10 mph over the limit. Similarly, no one cares what your average PF is. The rule is that EVERY round you fire at a match should make PF, and the only way to do that is to make the average PF higher than the minimum PF.
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Max at gunsteel.com is the gold standard. Good guy, great products.
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I appreciate the responses, but they don't answer the main question.
IF production loads actually DO exceed minimum requirements, should steel be set to FALL anywhere in the legal hit zone, 90 degs to the steel AT those minimum PF requirements?
How do you know the round in question met minimum requirements? If you're loading to 127, it doesn't take much variance at all or very many rounds to make it a near certainty that there will be the occaional round that falls below minimum PF.
Thre's also the simple fact that between design and mechanical variance in poppers, poppers being set by different people after each run, varying wind, etc, there is a strong possibility that a popper may occasionally be more difficult to knock down.
That's why so many prod shooters load to PF=130-140. It's still nice and soft, but you dramatically reduce the chances that your one light round happens to meet the one stiff popper just as the wind shifts from the wrong direction.
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There are more important things to worry about. We don't object to Tactical Tommies at the club - their tacticool gear makes it easier to distinguish the guys most likely to break a safety rule.
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Ok, I give up. No plaid for me.Real men wear tartan, not plaid.
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For those of you who'd like to join the kilted ranks of real men, here's a
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New as in not a master level, and yes the scoring was NOT correct. (I do know how to score and I do score our matches) I wasn't the only one who saw the errors. My question is more to the point of what is the basis if you do see this error. Do you have the right to question a score that is not on your target?
In a Level II or III match, wrong scoring affects everyone. Having been an RO/CRO with some experience, I can say 2 alphas when I should have said 2 Cs. It happens. I try to be 100% correct, but sometimes shadows, sun, or to many pasters can play tricks on you. So, yes you should identify or "ask" about scoring that does not appear correct. Level I classifiers are important at local matches.
Most of us would want the correct score recorded.
Thank you for the input. The incident that I am referring to was a husband giving his wife and a friend higher scores than they earned. It was a local match and most of the shooters there know each other. I had made a 3 hour drive and this was my first time at this match. He was called out by another local shooter and all was well after that. Trying to stay in the confines of not coming off as a jerk at a new match, I was trying to make sure I had the rules behind me to ask for a correction on a target that was not mine. As previously stated, most of those in our sport are of the highest ethical standards and this was the first time that I had seen this situation.
Sounds like the situation was handled.
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Given that you're a new shooter, are you certain the calls were wrong? Are you familiar with USPSA rules on scoring?
If you're new and you don't understand something ask the RO for an explanation. As a rule, our sport tends to attract people with pretty high ethical standards, and the odds are a lot better that you misunderstood the scoring than that an RO was systematically giving someone better scores than they deserve.
BB
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Wow! Here I thought everyone else thought that HHF was based on an average of the best runs turned in, across the nation. Well, would someone chime in and give a definitive answer. Surely this isn't willy nilly and they pick HHF's at random or use one run from one match and then never revisit the HHF?
It surprises me that this isn't standardized. It surprises me that they didn't average all the GM scores at that particular Area and just used Max's. it suprises me that it didnt get bounced off any other GM score since what, 2005? Geez, I sure wish someone from headquarters would chime in.
I understand that some classifiers might be introduced with a HHF that needs adjustment, due to lack of data. I would expect that at regular intervals USPSA would be mining data on the newer classifiers and adjusting the HHF up or down. I actually thought the HHF's were adjusted and tweaked regularly, I'm paying for legitimacy, just stands to reason that im getting what I pay for, right?
So, what is the consensus? Is it that asshats run the HHF up, or that USPSA doesn't follow any defined plan and some HHF are jacked up as a result?
What's the answer? I'm starting to think that the "lets shoot the piss out of that" is an urban legend. That the problem can actually be traced to "no defined procedure" and "no follow up tweaking".
What say you?
I say the powers that be should be a little more forthcoming on this issue, since it comes up on a regular basis, but I also say there is no problem. Given the fact that classification depends on the best 6 of 8 classifiers and/or major match performance, the occasional classifier that seems to give a percentage higher or lower than expected isn't an issue. The system works.
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There are a few like you are indicating. For instance, Can you count 06-03. We have run this one a few times. Most recently only because it fit in with a theme. We have some top GMs, guys who have finished in the top 16 at Nationals and top 3 at Area matches and have several 100% classifiers. These are guys who can run 0.1 splits to boot! The HIGHEST percentage any of them have shot on this is like 82%. I just went and looked at scores for one of them and he has shot this classifier 6 times as a GM, from 72% to 81%. I think the HHF on 06-03 is very suspect. There are about 5 others like that as well. I usually just avoid running them at matches because classifier scores are important to some of our shooters.
I will say that the more I shoot, the less I care about classifiers and classification in general.
+1 on both points. I've talked with several shooters in the B-M range about 06-03, and the consensus is that we'd love to see video of a 100% run, because that would be some damned impressive shooting and reloading!
By the same token, though, once you've shot for a year or two, you've got enough classifiers and matches on your record that the occasional classifier that seems too hard or too easy doesn't make enough difference to complain about. A system that works 90% of the time is a system that works.
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There are three basic reasons a lot of shooters don't get into revolver:
1) Speed - Obviously a lot of people get into the sport because they want to go FAST. Whatever division they start in, they tend to move to Lim or Open because they want to spend their time running and gunning, not planning and reloading.
2) Gear - Revolver requires an investment in dedicated equipment. Unlike every other division, your gun/holsters/mag pouches/mags aren't going to do double duty in another division, and if you're not already a revolver shooter, they probaby aren't going to do double duty as your carry/bedside gun.
3) The reload - SS/Prod/Lim/Lim10/Open all use essentialy the same reload. If you're good at one, you're probably comparably good at all of them without THAT much practice. But reloading a revolver is a whole different animal. You can have a blazing fast reload in your other divisions, but you'll still have to learn a whole new skill set to get your revolver skills up to speed.
Given those hurdles, I don't think you can expect a larger Nats to produce an overnight bump in revolver participation. But maybe that's the wrong goal for a revolver Nats. Maybe the question we should be asking is "do existing revolver shooters deserve a nationals on a par with the other divisions?"
I'm inclined to think the answer is a resounding yes. While I do think that over time, a more comparable revolver nats will bring a few more wheelgunners to other matches, I think the larger match is justified by simply offering existing wheelies parity. If that means 200 other shooters also dig out a revolver once a year and join them, so much the better. It hasn't hurt Single Stack!
FWIW, I bought a revolver rig and shot a few local matches because of Sam Keen's match in Memphis. If the Nats hadn't been the day after the SSN, I'd have shot the Nats, too. I'm giving serious thought to shooting the whelgun for a sectional or two later this year. So I suppose I'm an example of someone who did ad the division due to the presence of larger matches.
BB
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I'll add that if the shooter asks for the RM, call the RM. Even if it doesn't change the outcome, the shooter will feel like the match staff did everything in the rulebook to make sure the correct decision was made.
+1!
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<I've changed the details slightly to avoid discussing a specific match/incident/person>
At back of deep stage (i.e. not visible from back of bay), popper in one port activates max trap in the next. Target is not disappearing, leaving only the head A zone before and after activation. Shooter shoots popper, moves to next port, sees closed max trap, doesn't engage, then finishes stage and tells RO target didn't activate.
RO#1 (timer) says he wasn't watching target, doesn't know if target reset or not. RO#2 (clipboard and midway back on the stage) says "I reset that target myself. I know it activated." CRO and rest of squad are at back of bay and couldn't see whether target activated or not.
When shooter presses issue and asks for RM, RO#2 says "Won't do any good, I saw target activate."
End result is that shooter drops the issue, but leaves stage convinced RO didn't actually see target activate, and is in CYA mode.
Whole situation could have been avoided if RO#2 had clearly told shooter "I saw target activate" instead of insisting that since he'd reset target it must have activated.
Moral of story - be very clear about what you actually saw and how you communicate that with shooters and other staff. No shooter should leave a stage thinking an RO may have shorted him.
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Ray Hirst is the evil genius of stage design. Great match, solid staff, and I got to shoot with a great squad. Big fun. Sign me up for next year!
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The bugs! It was all about the buggy rat bastard, evil, bugs! This was my first visit to PASA. I enjoyed the mix of stages and a truly dark, dark house. Thanks Ray and crew. Those dang bugs, though, oh man, not enough curse words..
Never go to PASA without taking a bottle of vanila perfume. It's the only thing that works on PASA gnats.
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stay the hell out of the way?Are there an rules or guidelines to where people videoing can stand or follow while videoing a shooter?
I had a gig a few years ago as a part time sports photographer shooting baseball and basketball. While all the advice above is good, Sarge summed it up the best. If you film/photograph properly, the shooters and RO won't even be aware of your presence.
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This is one of the reasons why 3 gun matches are growin so fast and USPSA matches are falling off. USPSA matches are somewhat PC in that almost everyone gets recognized as to not upset anyone just like a kindergarten spelling bee. Everyone gets a plaque or recognition.
So your argument is that USPSA attendance is falling off (Is it? News to me.) because people don't like getting recognized?
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How would problem solving and efficiency change in SS with the front strap lowered in the DOH configuration?
I'm a so-so baseball player. I'm a pretty damned good lacrosse player. If I could just use my lacrosse stick to play baseball, it'd be a lot more fun for me, and I could out throw and out catch anyone relying on traditional baseball gear.
But that wouldn't be baseball, would it?
Ok, I give up. No plaid for me.
2014 TN Sectional Championship
in Match Announcements - Pistol Only - USPSA, IPSC & Misc.
Posted
Found it.