sjz
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Posts posted by sjz
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I can't find a specific place on the website to submit recommendations?
Do we just send IDPA an email ?
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you are running a shooter, and he does not put the safety on his gun while loaded and holstered, and is ready to start.
Would you remind him of his error, or let things be, and have him suffer the consequences.
Safety rules are pretty much black and white, in other words there are no degrees of being unsafe.
If an RO knows that the shooter is unsafe, there is no question in my mind that the RO must not allow the shooter to proceed. He should "immeditaely" bring it to the shooters attention and correct it, just like any other safety violation. Knowingly letting a shooter proceed in an unsafe condition without correcting it, is an absurd argument.
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I ordered part # G4SS17CS with a 13# spring for $2 more. This is a one piece stainless steel captured rod. I hope that it is legal !!!
This should be fine for IDPA. SS is OK for SSP and it has a captured guide rod with no separate bushing.
The 13lb spring is pretty light for a gun set up for SSP. Let me know your ammo specs and how it runs. I run atlanta arms match grade 147gr low PF ammo with a stock recoil spring assembly and have no problems in my g17 gen4..
A 13lb spring might be needed if you had a compensator.
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Also the NRB now says you cannot use full length guides in SSP,, has to be captured.
No such rule exists in IDPA.
Where are you getting this mis-information that guide rods have to be captured?
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If you examine the Gen 4 guide rod while there is a steel sleeve in the Gen 4, the actual rod is polymer. Therefore the correct choice for IDPA SSP is the polymer one, any other material would bump you into ESP.
This is what I have concluded after questioning at our local IDPA SO rules clinics on various forums and consulting with Jager.
Above is incorrect. You no longer need to have polymer guide rod in Glocks to stay in SSP
1) The new IDPA rule book specifically allows recoil rods of any material not heavier than stainless steel in SSP.
Under permitted modifications for SSP
8.2.1.3.4. Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel
2) What would bump you to ESP (in a Glock for example) is a sleeve or bushing in the slide to accept a different type of recoil spring assembly or rod. This violates 2 rules for SSP.
Under SSP excluded modifications
8.2.1.4.1. Externally visible modifications other than those listed in the Permitted Modifications section.
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8.2.1.4.5. Slide inserts to accommodate a different recoil assembly design.
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I ordered the glockmeister with a 13# spring ... Now if it will just get here before the weekend!!! Thanks everyone !!!
Which part# did you order?
I am confused by Glockmeisters website. The G17 gen 4 and the G34 gen 4 take the exact same oem recoil spring assembly. But when I looked at the SS guide rod on Glockmeister, there are a couple that say:
"This recoil rod works for the following GLOCK models: 17 (including RTF2 but not 4th Gen), 22 (including RTF2 but not 4th Gen), 31, 34, and 35."
Why would it work in a G34 gen 4 and not a G17 gen 4?
Also, for IDPA- the tungsten would not be allowed. SS is the heaviest weight material that a guide rod can be made out of.
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"... I am not the only competitor this happened to during the match.
Is it legal for the score keeper in a match to make these calls ?"
My concern would be that the shooter was given the opportunity to correct his error before
the penalty was given ? Did the "SK" verbally call "Cover !" ? Or did you find out about it
only after your run ?
A fault line would for ever eliminate this on going cover call.
It has always been a major problem in IDPA.
How many times have we all seen a big time shooter go fast enough that a SO does not know if they used cover or not.
Go slow Joe blow does the same as big time but gets the procedural for cover.
Leaving cover calls up to SO's will always be up to their personal interpretation.
Enough!!
Problem with a fault line would be cover is different for each person. i am 6'6" and can lean WAAAAAAAYYYYYY around a corner compared to my competitor who is say 5'3". Im in favor of a fault line because it would give me an advantage when shooting around corners for that last target.
The cover line ( fault line ) is the same for everyone. It is a straight line from the center of the target in question to edge of cover and extending indefinatley. 100% of your lower body must be inside this line. That doesn't mean that certain body builds could make this harder or easier.
The problem is that from a cover position there are usually multiple targets, so each target would need a separate line.
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From what i got at the SO training in MI the rule is as he described it to me to wrap my head around. " You cannot reload except at a point of cover, and A point of cover is a point from which you can engage targets." A reload is started when you push the mag release or grab a magazine. So the instance he had was you engage five targets from one side of a wall and ran your gun empty but all targets have been engaged and you are still behind cover. You turn to run down the 10 ft long wall (gun empty) before you break cover on the opposing side to engage the last 3 targets you must reload. ...
You can not do this and I am surprised this was taught at an SO course.
When you run dry behind cover, in this case the left side of the wall, you can not move from this position of cover with a gun that is empty. So on the left side you can essentiually take 1 step while reloading with one of your feet not moving (the pivot foot.) Only when the reload is complete can you move the pivot foot.
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3.9. Under no circumstances may a shooter leave a “position of cover” with an empty weapon. A “position of cover” is defined as any fixed location in a stage from which the shooter is required to engage targets from cover. The boundary marking the “position of cover” is the line of cover defined by the last target to be engaged from that position.
3.9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage, (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded.
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Wanted to put in my $.02 for my 1st post.
I shot my first sanctioned IDPA and I shot SSP. I checked with the match director at my local matches. He stated it was legal. Since I trust him, I shot the match with a stainless steel guide rod. When it was my turn to inspect my G34, they questioned me on this issue. I pulled out a copy of the new rules and they went to the director.
Ruling was that it is legal in SSP according to new rulebook.
The rule states, "8.2.1.3.4. Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel." As long as the guide rod "no heavier" it's OK.
But if I'm wrong please let me know.
Thanks and hope to learn more in the forum.
Ian
FYI- I placed 5th in SSP-MM
If you look a little further down in the rules under prohibited modifications for SSP, there are 2 listings that I would think make the bushing a no go for SSP and bump you to ESP where they are specifically allowed.
8.2.1.4.1. Externally visible modifications other than those listed in the Permitted Modifications section.
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8.2.1.4.5. Slide inserts to accommodate a different recoil assembly design.
Personally I think that the bushing could be viewed as a part of the recoil spring assembly and not a modification of the slide. On the other hand it does fit into the slide so that a different recoil spring assembly can be used.
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This DPM triple spring system looks like it has a bushing to fit the Gen 4. Needs to be researched further. Also big $$
http://www.theshootersbox.com/DPM-Recoil-Reducer-Mechanical-System_p_600.html
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With the new rulebook in IDPA you can now use a SS guiderod in a Glock and stay inn SSP.
The problem is that I don't know if one is made for the Gen 4 that doesn't require a bushing for it to fit. The gen 4 opening for the front of the guide rod is bigger than the gen 3. I had tried an uncaptured ss guide rod in my Gen 4 with a bushing that allows this to fit. This bushing becomes a visible external modification which would bump you out of SSP.
From the prohibited list for SSP ( but permitted for ESP)
8.2.1.4.5. Slide inserts to accommodate a different recoil assembly design.
You will have to do some searching.
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I installed my new Zev "extended tip" striker in my G17 that is modified with a drop in trigger group and a 4lb striker spring. I did some chrono tests today with the G17 and put aorund 50 rounds through it of various reloaded ammo. All of the ammo has winchester SP mag primers. I had no light strikes. so I may have solved my problem. But I'll really see Monday when I put a 150 rounds thru it at a IDPA practice.
I would experiment with 2 other striker springs.
Wolf sells them in 1/2 increments and they are only a few dollars each. You could get a 4.5 lb and a 5.0 lb ( the stock glock spring is 5.5 lb)
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Rule 2.15 provides that steel targets must be engaged from 10yds or more....
I recently completed the Candidate SO test in which I was asked the question whether a steel popper could be engaged at a distance of 7 yds when the Cof stated that target to be engaged fro P1 (10 yds ) what penalty was to apply...
I gave a PE !!!!!.....the answer came back DQ ???
I still have not found the rule which requires that
Can anyone help..
The text book answer is that the rules say that a safety violation is a DQ. Shooting at steel is unsafe per the safety section 2.
The rule book, in the unsafe gun handling section should be amended to specifically indicate shootong at steel <10 yds is a DQ. USPSA has it worded this way, ironically the USPSA distance is approx 7 yds..
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The clarification to this rule came out yesterday. It's on the website. Like was done at the NM state match, it's OK to lift one foot and pivot on the other one, similar to basketball. Both feet don't have to be planted, but you can't lift your pivot foot.
The IDPA ruling that came out was a real gem. Hopefully the next actual rules revision will reword this section.
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Vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate!!!
Vanilla/chocolate swirl is better !
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But in a gun fight, is any spot "safe"? Is harder to hit a stationary kitten or a moving kitten?
I agree with you but that is not what I am talking about. I am addressing one issue and one issue only.
While "behind cover" which could be a 10 ft wall, you should be able to move "behind this cover" while reloading. In our game "cover" is safe. That's all I am trying to say.
The new rules changed this so that you cannot do this. You don't have to agree with me, but in my opinion the new rule is a. -not realistic and b. -dumbs down the skill level.
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If I'm "safely behind cover", I'm sure not leaving that spot without a full gun.
I didn't suggest leaving cover while reloading.
In my opinion, in a real life situation, you should be able to reload while moving "behind cover." Under our game and rules if you are behind hard cover, you are safe. let's not confuse the issue with walls and barrels.
The new rule doesn't allow you to move while reloading behind cover. You must stand flat footed- both feet on the ground while doing a reload. To me this is not a real life scenario.
I guess I look at it this way...if you're currently at a safe spot and you need to reload, you should do it before you move from that spot. I see the other point though. If that "safe spot" is fairly large, you should be able to move AND reload.
Exactly! That is the point I am trying to make.
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If I'm "safely behind cover", I'm sure not leaving that spot without a full gun.
I didn't suggest leaving cover while reloading.
In my opinion, in a real life situation, you should be able to reload while moving "behind cover." Under our game and rules if you are behind hard cover, you are safe. let's not confuse the issue with walls and barrels.
The new rule doesn't allow you to move while reloading behind cover. You must stand flat footed- both feet on the ground while doing a reload. To me this is not a real life scenario.
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"1.1.3. Provide a level playing field for all competitors that solely tests the skill and ability of each individual, not their equipment."
"1.1.5. Provide shooters with practical and realistic courses of fire, and test skills that could be required to survive life-threatening encounters."
Why the flat footed reloading? Isn't reloading safely on the move much more demanding skill wise?
What is more real life when safely behind cover - standing still to reload or moving to a more tactical position while reloading?
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I need to re-examine this rule.
If I even shuffle a foot while reloading I get the finger.
Edit:
3.9.4.Advancing or moving while reloading behind cover is defined as either lifting a foot off the ground or sliding a foot along the ground. The shooter may pivot on one foot or move the torso, as long as the pivot foot does not lift or slide.Ok, how am I suppose to pivot and not slide a foot or lift it off the ground?Can someone paint me a picture where this happens and you don't get the finger?The rule is pretty clear- reloads must be done flat footed. The "pivot on one foot" wording confuses many people who think that this implies that you can lift the other foot. That was my immediate interpretation, however, the rule simply does not say this.What I find more perplexing is rule 3.9.4.1. Exception: The shooter may shoot around both sides of a Bianchi barricade or barrel, including shifting their feet and knees without penalty.This wording is not good, a new undefined term is now introduced "shifting", but this rule is labeled as an exception, so the guess would be that you can "lift or slide" either foot when "shooting around" a barrell for example.
More bad wording, we already know that it is ok to "lift or slide" your feet when "shooting", so what does this even mean ?
"Shooting around" a barrell is different than "reloading" while using a barrell for "cover", after all you can't be shooting and reloading at the same time.
If the rule was meant to allow you to "lift or slide" your feet without penalty while reloading behind a barrell, then that begs the question, what if there were more than 1 barrell side by side ? A very common COF.
Can you actually "shift" several feet in distance to the other side of the other barrell while reloading without penaly?
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Are you switching to a CZ or just adding a CZ, and planning to keep the Glock? If you get a DA/SA, there is a very obvious difference in the trigger pull. If you get a SA only- same pull all the time just like a glock. SA will bump you out of production div (USPSA) and out of SSP (IDPA). I kept my Glock for production/ssp and went with a SA CZ to shoot Limited/ESP. Mostly just to try a differnt type of gun, heavier steel frame, magwell etc.
Here are the differences I came across relative to shooting IDPA and USPSA:
1. Deactivating the safety when drawing ( if applicable).- This is a very easy motion, because your right thumb automatically will be positioned on the safety when drawing.
2. Reloads- with the Glock, after I droped the old mag and then would insert the new mag I used my right thumb to activate the slide lever. With a CZ this was impossible for me due to the location of the lever. So I had to learn how to do this with my left thumb while regripping. Very different. Between the safety lever and the slide lever, it took a longer than expected to get used to it. Now it is second nature. Many good shooters do it this way anyway, and I never knew that.
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Thanks for the reply. I was just wondering what the rulebook said.
Unfortunately, stage descriptions and/or then SO's interpretations, more often than not, conflict with the literal rules per the rulebook. Why have a rulebook then?
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This thread answers how soft cover effects scoring.
My question is whether "soft" cover needs to be used for slicing the pie? I recently shot a stage where barrells were in the middleof the stage however, the stage description called them "soft" cover and further said that there was no cover in the stage for shooting purposes.
1. Is "soft" cover automatically cover for shooting (slicing) purposes?
2. Is "soft" cover automatically not cover for shooting (slicing) purposes?
3. Or with regard to the above do the rules require that it be defined in the stage description?
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This request is probably more for CZ than CZ Custom, but here is one that I would love to see:
The CZ75 platform in a striker fired, double action only.
DPM Systems Advanced Recoil System Legal in SSP?
in IDPA Rules
Posted · Edited by sjz
Here is the wording in permitted modifications:
8.2.1.3.4. Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel.
1) Above is for modifications and applies to ssp, esp, cdp, so an oem single, double or triple or more spring would appear to be ok regardless of material weight.
2) If it is a modification, a literal interpretation (is there any other type) applies only to dual spring assemblies. So a single, triple or more are not covered here and would likewise be ok.
Guide rods are a little different. Tungsten guide rods are not allowed as a modification, period. But if you have an oem gun with a tungsten guide rod or other material heavier than SS it would appear to be OK
Someone else will add to this if I am missing something.