Discussion on gun cleaning

[Corey]

I wasnt sure this was the best place for this thread, if not, please feel free to move where you see fit

So, I've read a few threads on here about cleaning vs not cleaning bores etc etc. (im sure some of them will be linked here later:))

I was always brought up with the mindset of always cleaning a gun before putting it away. Take care of your guns, your guns will take care of you (whoa, i just quoted my father there....). I work at a place that sells reloading and cleaning supplies-a lot of cleaning supplies to be exact. I brought up the idea to a few co-workers and also printed out that Scheumann barrel article (altho it was rather dated) about their recommendations about not cleaning barrels, etc. They were nearly as confused as I am.

I, being simple minded and altho around firearms most of my life still learning new things EVERY DAY, cannot for the love of God see why NOT cleaning your barrel is better than cleaning it out with a good lead/copper/moly/powder residue remover (insert favorite here-Hoppe's, Shooters Choice, Montana Extreme, Butch's Bore Shine, etc etc etc etc..... the list can go on forever).

Id like to see some opinions on the idea and especially if you are on the "nothing but bullets down the barrel" side of things. I'm not sure if im missing the boat here or what.

Thanks!!!!

C

[Jman]

Corey,

A quick search revealed this...

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...e=bore+cleaning

Lots to review.

Jim

[caspian1]

Son's action pistol gun. First barrel and gun was cleaned spotless about every 600 rounds. Excellant accuracy for about 70,000 rounds. Replacement barrel by same manufacturer but will only go very accurate if dirty. Don't even think about brushing the barrel unless you want to fire 300 rounds or more to get the accuracy back. Just a quick swap with a tight patch for this one.

[Corey]

Son's action pistol gun. First barrel and gun was cleaned spotless about every 600 rounds. Excellant accuracy for about 70,000 rounds. Replacement barrel by same manufacturer but will only go very accurate if dirty. Don't even think about brushing the barrel unless you want to fire 300 rounds or more to get the accuracy back. Just a quick swap with a tight patch for this one.

Dry patch or with solvents attached?

thanks for the links, ive read a couple of those threads aleady as well. the problem is only a handful of them have recent postings within the last year and some date back quite a whiel. im just looking for up to date info with the release of who knows how mnay new cleaning products out there now, lol.

[ChuckS]

http://www.schuemann.com/LinkClick.aspx?fi...=67&mid=445

(this one doesn't require any new cleaning products )

later,

Chuck

[Corey]

http://www.schuemann.com/LinkClick.aspx?fi...=67&mid=445

(this one doesn't require any new cleaning products )

later,

Chuck

i knew that would get posted so i didnt bother, but yes, thats the article ive read a couple times, found it when i was researching moly bullets.

While some of the info in the article are worthwhile, some of it is also very very dated-quotes from articles nearly 15 years ago or older. That exact article is what has got this dilema going in my head tho...

Who follows it and why. any "proof" that its a better way of handling this concept?

[RufDog]

The benchrest community has some interesting information on this topic. try 6mmbr.com benchrest guys seem to be 50/50 on cleaning. I just try to do something to keep rust @ bay and knock out the powder fouling usually consisting of a snake and kroil.

[smokshwn]

Brake Cleaner, Compressed Air, Lube ...... whew! and I'm spent

[Duane Thomas]

Clean? What's that? I just went over the 20k mark with my latest Glock 17 and I think I've cleaned it twice. Maybe once.

[Corey]

im really glad i posted this, its kind of interesting to see the fans of not cleaning the barrel of a gun. I still cant get over the idea of all that lead, powder residue, etc just sitting in there......

[Lancair]

There is one thing that experienced shooters agree on in cleaning - DO NOT use a Stainless Steel cleaning brush.

Personally, I clean my SP-01 ever session or so - but I don't lose sleep if it stays dirty for a while. If I shot more than once a week I'd probably only clean it once a week. Scrub barrel with broze barrel brush soaked with Hoppes' 9, then run patches through until they come out clean, then spray a little WD-40 down and run another clean patch.

I spray the rest of the gun with liberal amounts of WD-40, let it sit for a few minutes, the scrub it all with a cleaning brush. Blow all the WD-40 and residue out with an air compressor, Slide-Glide on everything, reassemble, work the slide, wipe down the outside and chuck it back in the safe.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Lancair

[G-ManBart]

I had a new Millennium Custom Open gun delivered in Aug of 2008. It has a Schuemann AET barrel (.38SC) in it. I've kept an accurate log of every round fired (or very, very close) since day 1. I'm at 10K (thought I was at 12K, but checked) and it's never had a brush down the bore. Every couple of thousand rounds I'll run a wet patch down the barrel and follow it with a few dry patches, and I will carefully use a brush in the chamber if it needs it (almost never), and it's still shooting incredibly well. In Nov I did some chrono work and then shot groups at 25yds with it. Using my ammo bag as a rest, lying prone, I shot group after group of 10-shots with my normal match ammo. None of those groups went over 1.5" that I can recall. In many cases I'd take a couple of shots and look at the target and see just one hole. I'm using a 12moa dot, so it's not ideal for accuracy, but I figure if I can use a poor rest and shoot groups in the 1-1.5" at will....I guess I just don't really care.

My standard load (99% of what's gone through the gun) is N105 with a MG 115gr JHP. It chorno's right around 1500-1520 depending on the day....not exactly a mild load. I'm not seeing any reason to bother putting anything down that barrel but patches!

Part of the reason for keeping the round count was just this topic. I hope to be able to show the accuracy at 20K, 30K etc. I probably should have done better accuracy work/documentation when it was brand new, but I think I've got enough evidence now to say that it's a very accurate gun, and if it suddenly started routinely going over 2", I'd know it was the gun falling off. I've shot some 50yd groups, but not enough to have a real measurement in mind....I'll change that if I get the opportunity to soon. R,

[Corey]

good info Bart. maybe it is time to rethink my old ways....

[JTew]

Well, I will chime in with the other side. I clean my guns religiously. They get shot, they are cleaned. I have many Glocks with both factory and KKM barrels. Thousands of rounds through them. I have a Bedell .40 same thing. I have never seen an accuracy problem that covers at least a 5 year time frame and longer on some of them. My duty gun, a Glock 21, has more rounds through it than I could guess. It is at least ten years old and accuracy is the same.

I personally can't have a dirty gun. My take is that if I start having a problem, I will replace the barrel. In a Glock, most are drop in and if the STI goes bad, I will just get another fitted. I do not know how long that may take, but I will keep cleaning them and take the risk.

[Corey]

Well, I will chime in with the other side. I clean my guns religiously. They get shot, they are cleaned. I have many Glocks with both factory and KKM barrels. Thousands of rounds through them. I have a Bedell .40 same thing. I have never seen an accuracy problem that covers at least a 5 year time frame and longer on some of them. My duty gun, a Glock 21, has more rounds through it than I could guess. It is at least ten years old and accuracy is the same.

I personally can't have a dirty gun. My take is that if I start having a problem, I will replace the barrel. In a Glock, most are drop in and if the STI goes bad, I will just get another fitted. I do not know how long that may take, but I will keep cleaning them and take the risk.

Thats always the way I have been but this new idea of not cleaning and receving better accuracy and the like is pretty interesting for me.

[lucasb67]

good info Bart. maybe it is time to rethink my old ways....

Well, I will chime in with the other side. I clean my guns religiously. They get shot, they are cleaned. I have many Glocks with both factory and KKM barrels. Thousands of rounds through them. I have a Bedell .40 same thing. I have never seen an accuracy problem that covers at least a 5 year time frame and longer on some of them. My duty gun, a Glock 21, has more rounds through it than I could guess. It is at least ten years old and accuracy is the same.

I personally can't have a dirty gun. My take is that if I start having a problem, I will replace the barrel. In a Glock, most are drop in and if the STI goes bad, I will just get another fitted. I do not know how long that may take, but I will keep cleaning them and take the risk.

+1

I clean my gun at every use, a lot of like only few shots ... I don't understand why shuemann say it, but my shuemann barrel after 30k shoot very accuracy

[Corey]

OK, so maybe im not out of my mind by cleaning my gun after i use it, haha. do you guys just use patches or do you put a bronze brush thru it as well.

[XD Niner]

I clean my Brazos Open blasters every 2K rounds or so. I just use patches on my barrel and am not too anal about that final cleaning patch coming out pristine white. After all, the first round down the barrel will leave deposits.

I do clean out the Aftec extractor every other cleaning. The whole thing gets lubed with Slide Glide Lite before it is reassembled.

I've not had any problems with this approach and frequency.

I do about the same for my XD-9 and 1911's but use regular Slide Glide on them.

[G-ManBart]

The truth is most of the modern thought about gun cleaning is based on what we did way back when....black powder and corrosive primers. Sure, back then you had to clean a gun to keep it reliable and to prevent rusting. With modern powders, primers and jacketed bullets, cleaning every use isn't necessary.

In fact, a squeakly clean gun can be less reliable than one that's in a reasonable state of fouling. How can that be? Well, if the gun is working properly when you stop shooting, the odds are incredibly high that it's going to go bang the next time you press the trigger. If you've taken the gun apart, cleaned it, and put it back together you have an unknown staring back at you. It'll probably go bang, but it might not. Yes, a function check is a good idea, but it's not foolproof. This is even more true if you've detail stripped the gun.....you sure you got that sear spring on there perfectly and the tension on the legs is still what it's supposed to be???? No way of knowing until you press the trigger for the first time.

For practical reasons I clean my duty/carry gun after I shoot it because I don't want to get my dress shirts and suits dirty. I have another duty gun that I normally only use at the range, for instructing, and it's been cleaned exactly once....after the first time I shot it, new out of the box.

If it makes you feel good...knock yourself out and clean your guns all the time. Just know that any advantage you think you're gaining is offset by an equal disadvantage (no free lunch). Personally, I won't take a gun to a major match that hasn't had at least a couple of mags run through it after a cleaning. R,

[Duane Thomas]

Makes sense to me. But they I'm kind of notorious for how rarely I clean my guns.

[ima45dv8]

The truth is most of the modern thought about gun cleaning is based on what we did way back when....black powder and corrosive primers.

True, but I think a lot of that squeaky-clean culture/mindset comes from, or is at least perpetuated by military training. I once read an article (don't remember where) that made the connection between cleaning and familiarity. It seems safe to say that most people enlisting in the armed services are not hard core gun folks like us. So to instill a complete familiarity with the proper assembly and function of the recruits weapon, something that would serve them very well in the field environment, strict and frequent cleaning regimens were mandated. Handle it more; know it more. It made sense to me, and even if not 100% the basis for the religion of cleaning imparted to these folks, it would seem to be a considerable factor.

Now to mine....

I used to clean mine with alarming regularity. If they got shot, they got cleaned. One day I stumbled across Schuemann's article and thought, if anyone would know, he would. I mean, it ain't rocket science, right? Wait, did someone mention Wil used to BE a rocket scientist? Now his theory was sounding even better (and better founded).

I bought a Les Baer Premier II about that time and caught untold rations of grief... "You bought a name!" "It's all hype!" "That's just slick marketing!" and so on. The two thoughts came together and I decided to do one of those torture tests I'd read about being done to his guns. Not only wouldn't I clean the bore, I wouldn't clean any part of the gun. Lube, yes. Clean, no. I would start every match or range session with two drops of BreakFree on each rail and one on the end of the barrel where the bushing rides. When finished, no cleaning of any type. 27,000+ rounds later and it's been cleaned 6 times. Once before a state-level match in AL, once when it went to Les for a new extractor at 18,000. A few more times because it was just so damned nasty that it would ruin whatever shirt I was wearing, and once because I wanted to test a new heated sonic cleaner. I didn't clean it even when replacing worn-out recoil springs. It's scarred and brush-beat all to Hell and gone, but it still runs like a fine watch.

Besides those shameful cleaning events, it did get 'serviced' a few times. Whenever during a match the slide started 'hesitating' during it's cycle (stick at the rear of the stroke momentarily and then close), I'd pop the top end off in the safety area, scrap the top of the frame against a hard wooden surface to knock the carbon buildup off, re-oil, reassemble, and go back to shooting.

The gun was extremely accurate when I got it, and shoots just as well today.

And I've done almost the same routine with my Brazos Limited gun with the same results. Bob would probably cringe if he ever saw the continuous state it's in, but it's performance, and the Baer's, are testaments to how well built they are and how little care a truly good gun requires.

If a gun won't run dirty, I get rid of it.

YMMV...

[Neomet]

I've always cleaned my guns for no other reason than my dad drilled it into my head that you never put away a dirty gun. Never thought about it much, it was just what you did. I read one of the prior threads on this and was able to loosen up considerably on my XD45 and my CZ TS.

Then I got my Open gun.

I am so enamored with what a precise, tight instrument it is that my compulsion has returned. I might be able to go two matches but then I start getting the DTs. I have never seen how long I could go with it before there was a filth related issue and there are plenty of testimonials here that suggest that the value of regular cleaning has no empirical support. I just gotta let go..... or not.

[mountaincoulee]

Fully agree with those who suggest that compulsive cleaning goes back to the BP and corrosive primer days, and nowadays, to the fact that cleaning makes the soldier learn his rifle inside & out.

I'm still new to the HG games -1 year- and have just this month reached the point where cleaning has been simplified to mean:

- field stripping,

- wiping all combustion debris etc with rag/q-tips,

- cleaning behind extractor,

- reassemble & lube.

The barrel gets patched twice with Hoppes, then dry patched (not clean patched), then lightly oil patched. Done.

I do this after each practice or match, and starting this month only shoot jacketed or plated.

My two target rifles' barrels see a bronze brushing, etc once a year.

During the comp season, the barrels stay fouled. When I really clean them, it takes awhile for both the CF and RF rifle to settle back down to where they are predictable.

The worse was when I de-coppered the HP rifle because accuracy was gradually falling off - it took 40 rds. to restore the rifle to its full potential.

[lugnut]

Hmmmm, quick field strip and brief cleaning every 500 rounds or so. Nothing in the bore. Every 5K or so detail clean. Sometimes every other cleaning or so I run a quick patch maybe. The more I shoot the lazier I get with cleaning them. I shoot Glocks mostly.

[Duane Thomas]

You also have to take into account that in a military/field environment the gun gets MUCH dirtier, much faster than even the most fanatical match shooter could possibly inflict on the poor thing. For a solider in the field, regular cleaning is probably mandatory to keep the darn thing running at all. For our guns, in the environments in which we use them....not so much.