170gr Precision Bullets (Moly)

[Pro2AInPA]

I'm going to be working up my first .40 loads within the next few weeks.

I have 1,000 pieces of once fired brass and 2,500 170gr moly bullets from Precision Bullets on hand.

As far as powders, I have 231, WSF, Titegroup, and AA#5 on hand.

Which of those would be recommended? If none of them fit the bill, what's recommended? I want to work up minor PF and major PF loads, preferably with the same power.

Is it safe to work up major PF .40 loads for a stock OEM Glock barrel, or is an aftermarket barrel a must?

I'm also going to get an EGW U die. Is this something you guys use just one time on each piece of brass or does it replace the normal resizing die on your press?

Thanks!

[big_kahuna]

With the PB 170s, I've used the first three powders you listed... I do not have extensive experience with AA5.

231 was easily the most accurate in by G22, G35 and 6" STI. Temp sensitive. Saw pressure signs in hot weather and loading close to 175 PF. Works great at minor PF though, somewhere about 3.9 grains should do it.

TG was noticeably smokier than the others. Smokey enough that I save my TG for CMJ or JHP bullets. Slightly temp sensitive; increased PF cushion and loaded to 175 PF to feel more confident at chrono. Less accurate than 231 or WSF. Heavy fouling in gun, maybe resulting from hot powder melting the rear end of the bullet.

WSF had a slightly sharper recoil impulse. Inversely temp sensitive but this was not a problem. Almost as accurate as 231 but not quite. No signs of pressure even above 180 PF. WSF gave significant cornmealing (unburned powder residue) at minor PF, and accuracy dropped off significantly. 231 works better at minor.

Given a choice between the three powders listed, I would pick WSF. For Major try 5.4 to 5.8 WSF. If you must use WSF for Minor try 4.1 to 4.5 WSF and the hotter you get the load the cleaner it will burn. Again, 231 performed better at minor PF.

I used the PB 170s in both stock and KKM barrels out of my glocks. Didn't have any problems that I can remember with either barrel. I used the KKMs most of the time, just for peace of mind (irrational fear of the mythical lead-related OEM Barrel KaBoom I guess).

I use my EGW U-Die as my resizing die.

[Pro2AInPA]

With the PB 170s, I've used the first three powders you listed... I do not have extensive experience with AA5.

231 was easily the most accurate in by G22, G35 and 6" STI. Temp sensitive. Saw pressure signs in hot weather and loading close to 175 PF. Works great at minor PF though, somewhere about 3.9 grains should do it.

TG was noticeably smokier than the others. Smokey enough that I save my TG for CMJ or JHP bullets. Slightly temp sensitive; increased PF cushion and loaded to 175 PF to feel more confident at chrono. Less accurate than 231 or WSF. Heavy fouling in gun, maybe resulting from hot powder melting the rear end of the bullet.

WSF had a slightly sharper recoil impulse. Inversely temp sensitive but this was not a problem. Almost as accurate as 231 but not quite. No signs of pressure even above 180 PF. WSF gave significant cornmealing (unburned powder residue) at minor PF, and accuracy dropped off significantly. 231 works better at minor.

Given a choice between the three powders listed, I would pick WSF. For Major try 5.4 to 5.8 WSF. If you must use WSF for Minor try 4.1 to 4.5 WSF and the hotter you get the load the cleaner it will burn. Again, 231 performed better at minor PF.

I used the PB 170s in both stock and KKM barrels out of my glocks. Didn't have any problems that I can remember with either barrel. I used the KKMs most of the time, just for peace of mind (irrational fear of the mythical lead-related OEM Barrel KaBoom I guess).

I use my EGW U-Die as my resizing die.

Thanks!

[Pro2AInPA]

Does anyone have an online resource or a manual on their bench showing start and max charges for a 170gr lead bullet in .40 S&W with WSF and 231? The Hodgdon site doesn't show anything for 170gr lead and neither do my Sierra manuals.

[The_Vigilante]

Found this:

Starting:

Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)

170 Hornady XTP Winchester W-231 4.4 847

Remarks: 23,900 psi

170 JHP Winchester WSF 5.5 920

Maximum:

Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)

170 Hornady XTP Winchester W-231 5.3 1,007

Remarks: 33,000 psi

170 JHP Winchester WSF 6.5 1,080

Since you are loading lead bullets just adjust the suggested charges downward about .2 of a grain.

Edited January 7, 2010 by The_Vigilante

[Pro2AInPA]

Found this:

Starting:

Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)

170 Hornady XTP Winchester W-231 4.4 847

Remarks: 23,900 psi

170 JHP Winchester WSF 5.5 920

Maximum:

Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)

170 Hornady XTP Winchester W-231 5.3 1,007

Remarks: 33,000 psi

170 JHP Winchester WSF 6.5 1,080

Since you are loading lead bullets just adjust the suggested charges downward about .2 of a grain.

I've always wondered how to apply jacketed data to lead bullets. How did you arrive at a reduction of .2gr?

[The_Vigilante]

Just what I've learned from the Forum and other sources. It's a good place to start. Others may chime in with their experience.

[big_kahuna]

Here's how I worked up loads I referred to earlier in this thread:

1. Attempt to find data for your bullet weight and composition (170 lead in this case).

1a. If no match, attempt to find the nearest corresponding data for your bullet weight but different composition (170 jacketed bullets)

1.b. If no match, attempt to find the nearest corresponding data for the closest bullet weight (165 or 175) and/or composition (jacketed or lead).

2. Use book starting charge in case 1 above; reduce starting charge by 10% for case 1.a above; reduce starting charge by 15% for case 1.b above.

3. Prepare samples of 30 rounds at starting charge and 0.2 grain increments to forecasted max charge. Be advised that you may not shoot all of these if you run into pressure signs... you may have a bullet pulling party later. I use new brass for workups if possible, and number each case with a sharpie. I also record the case head/web diameter for each case so I can track how much expansion occurs.

4. Record chrono velocities for sample of 30 rounds at starting charge. Record each velocity, ambient temperature, date/time, humidity, altitude, etc. This data is useful for trend analysis of temperature sensitivity, altitude variance. Look for ironed, pierced, or cratered primers; ironed case heads; extrusions of case head; expansion of case head of 4 mils or more; or anything else that looks fishy. STOP if you see pressure signs or exceed your ceiling velocity (I consider my ceiling 180 PF for major, 140 PF for minor).

5. If no pressure signs noted, repeat step 4 for next increments. Note chrono results and again look for signs of pressure. Continue until you hit ceiling PF or pressure signs. Keep good notes.

6. Take your data and calculate Means, SDs and ESs. Try to find a load that gives an SD under 20 (lower is better) and a mean of at least 2 SDs above your power factor floor OR 175 PF. Loads that meet these criteria are good candidates but you are not done yet.

7. Test candidate loads for accuracy from bench. I test at 15, 30, and 45 yards. Record results.

8. (optional) Repeat this entire cycle at temperature extremes for your area. I test loads in both summer and winter to determine temperature sensitivity.

9. (optional) Record your actual chrono results from major matches. This gives you an idea of elevation and temperature sensitivity.

Before I became so anal, I had a WST load with 170 Precisions that made 170 PF major at 2500' ASL at 75 degrees F. This same load went 161 PF at sea level and 112 degrees F (Moro Bay Golden Bullet match coupla years ago). Understand that some of this delta is chrono variance, but still.... This is how I learned that WST is grossly and inversely temperature sensitive, and that thick ocean air really slows down bullets.

[Harmon]

i run .5 grains less powder with lead or coated bullets vs jacketed data.

seems to work for me.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you tell me what pistol you are shooting I can give you a load that will make major or minor. I use Tite Group powder and Accurate #2. I have to add Precision bullets in 155, 170 or 185:rolleyes: Thanks, Eric

Edited January 8, 2010 by Aircooled6racer

[Pro2AInPA]

Hello: If you tell me what pistol you are shooting I can give you a load that will make major or minor. I use Tite Group powder and Accurate #2. I have to add Precision bullets in 155, 170 or 185:rolleyes: Thanks, Eric

It'll be a Glock 35. Still undecided if it'll be the OEM barrel or a Lone Wolf. Thanks!

I already know I'm going to work up a load with WSF, but I'll take all the data I can get!

[sfinney]

i run .5 grains less powder with lead or coated bullets vs jacketed data.

seems to work for me.

Agreed on .5 less - .2 is negligible.

[Mustang684]

I've been working with the 155 and 170 Precisions with my G35 for several years. This is what I found to date:

170 with 3.5g TG, 779 fps = 132 PF

170 with 4.4g TG, 993 fps = 169 PF

155 with 4.1g TG, 830 fps = 132 PF

155 with 4.5g TG, 919 fps = 142 PF

I found the 155/4.5g combo to be the minimum load that worked in my Glock and Sigs without changing anything out. Good all purpose load for factory setups.

[Vlad]

170gr 3.6gr TG 132PF in a standard length M&P,

4.5TG makes 165PF in the same gun.

The major load has a lot of head room to max load, but frankly it is unpleasant in a light plastic gun.

[DougCarden]

Difference between jacketed and lead bullets at same OAL, all things consistent, is .02 grains. It takes more powder for jacketed bullets than lead. You can use the same lead data for plated as well. Some guns vary, but it is usually pretty dead nuts on.

DougC

Edited February 3, 2010 by DougCarden