Optic help

[npolley]

whats the better scope option from trijicon. will probably be used for 3 gun in the future. the two im looking at are the acog ta31 and the accupoint tr24

the acog just really looks good on top of the AR, but is it any good for competition

[Jesse Tischauser]

I have never used an ACOG in competition but I have a TR21 and just bought a TR24. I think you will enjoy the flexibility of having the true 1X at close ranges. It's like having a red or green dot type optic when shooting hoser stages. I recommend going with the German #4 cross hair. I personally prefer the green dot as well. I would also recommend the LaRue LT139 (SPR-E) over the LT140 as the extended mount will allow you more flexibility in where you mount the optic. I like to mount the rifle with my nose on or near the charging and the LT140 works but is right on the edge of seeing the black around the edges if you get way up on the rifle or if you get a little low on your rifle.

Good luck!

Edited December 27, 2009 by jtischauser

[maineshootah]

whats the better scope option from trijicon. will probably be used for 3 gun in the future. the two im looking at are the acog ta31 and the accupoint tr24

the acog just really looks good on top of the AR, but is it any good for competition

I have shot the TA31 and currently run the TA01JP (JP reticle) and prefer the JP for the longer range matches where most of the shots are 200 yards and over. (This is going to change soon however)

The TA31 is great for 200 and under Throw the donut on the target and rip two. However using the bottom circle of the donut at 300-400 yards when I was huffing and puffing was difficult. The JP reticle I think is better at distance. If you do know your dope on your ammunition, the stadia lines (on both models) out to 600 yards (I have not used them farther than that) do work. Both of them are not great at the 15 - 50 yard distance, way too much power, and it is easy to get lost in the scope.

Granted, I shoot open, so I have a side dot for anything 75 yards or closer...

I have not shot the tr24.

Edited December 28, 2009 by maineshootah

[rtr]

You should consider the TA11 Acog over the TA31 as the TA11 has more generous eye relief.

[smokshwn]

Overwhelmingly, 1-4x scopes dominate the Tactical or Tac Optics division at 3 gun matches. Out of the two you are looking at I would consider the TR24 much more highly than the ACOG.

Don't forget to look at the Meopta Kdot or the Burris XTR as well.

[npolley]

this may be a complete newbie question but here goes.

can you shoot up close with an acog with both eyes open?

[Pro2AInPA]

this may be a complete newbie question but here goes.

can you shoot up close with an acog with both eyes open?

Some people can, some can't. You really need to try BAC for yourself to see if it works for you or not.

[1chota]

this may be a complete newbie question but here goes.

can you shoot up close with an acog with both eyes open?

i saw a guy at rm3g in'08 who had a flip up lens cover that fits the ACOG. when shooting up close he had the lens cover down and used both eyes to shoot. he let me try it and it works! you see the target with one eye and the illuminated reticle with the other.

[Jadeslade]

this may be a complete newbie question but here goes.

can you shoot up close with an acog with both eyes open?

Depends on the ACOG. The TA11 and the 31 are built for it. TA01 is not, but can be done. Depends on your eyes. ACOG are military type, very sturdy and reliable. I think they are great for 3Gun, you just have to practice how you shoot close-over the barrel, built in iron on TA01, another sighting method, through the lens. If you know the course of fire and can rock steady your CQ hold I think you can shoot them with eyes open.(BAC) They are excellent at middle distance.

[smokshwn]

One of the problems eluded to above when using the Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC) is that on top of mechanical offset there is a certain amount of visual offset that you need to learn. This seems to vary from person to person. BAC does not work well for me and then adding in the fact that I have to hold differently at varying distances just does not seem a very efficient way to go. The only way to know for sure if it works for you is to try it, a lot. Or you could go with a low power variable that works for everyone and has pretty much overtaken the ACOG as a way to go.

[JohnGaultsGun]

this may be a complete newbie question but here goes.

can you shoot up close with an acog with both eyes open?

I've shot both the ACOG for several years and the Accupoint too. I'm currently shooting the Accupoint scope.

The ACOG seems to have a better quality glass (or coating) than the Accupoint and is much more forgiving with parallax. This had given me a good advantage at long range (250 yards +) and I've been able to consistently reach 400 yard plates. But the problem for me was that 95% of the targets at matches were under 250 yards with most of the major points gained at 100 yards or less. So on the close rifle stages, I was consistently in the middle scoring of a stage.

So I switched to the Accupoint. I had to give up a little bit of long range consistency because the flashers at 300 + yards were not as clear. However I gained A LOT at short range because I could dial down to 1.5x and shoot with both eyes open. And I noticed higher standings on short range rifle stages.

If you do shoot the ACOG with both eyes open, practice using the reticle as your aiming point. I used to use the muzzle as my aiming point at targets 7 yards or less. Worked REALLY well. Past 7 yds, I had to pause until the reticle was on the target. Add that fraction of a second times 15 targets and you get an idea of how much time can be added up.

Hope this helps.

Gary

[Religious Shooter]

Using the Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC) and shooting occluded is different.

With BAC:

The simple substitution of a bright red dot for the usual cross-hairs makes it very easy to keep both eyes open. Just as in the Single point or Armson O.E.G. sighting, the brain merges the two images. During dynamic movement, the scene through the telescope blurs because the image moves more rapidly due to magnification. The one eye sees the bright dot against the blurred target scene, so the brain picks the scene from the unaided eye. The shooter swings the weapon towards the target while perceiving the dot indicating where the weapon is pointed. As soon as the weapon begins to become steady in the target area, the brain switches to the magnified view.

http://trijicon.com/aiming.cfm

With BAC you actually look through the scope.

In contrast... when shooting occluded you either cover up the front of the scope or tip up your head and use "scope shadow" to occlude the view through the scope. With occluded shooting you don't switch "to the magnified view" because you don't look through the scope.

With BAC you switch to the magnified view because you are looking through the scope.

[Xfactor]

TR24 all the way...!

[3gunpinoy]

I shoot open, so I can only comment on this category. ACOG is best if you can deal with a single mag scope that you will use from 10 yds to 500. anything close, i cannot use the BAC concept so I swith to my JPoints. works great for this category

now, if I was shooting Tac scope,( which I did for a year) back then i was using a tr21 BUT, i cannot assure my hits at 350 going up becuase of the triangle of the Tr21. now maybe the Tr24 with a the german crosshair may be a better optic than my older tr21.

[ccoker]

I have had 2 TA33s, a Meopta Kdot and the TR24 with the german #4 and green dot

Also used an Eotech and Aimpoit with a 3x magnifier in a Larue FTS mount

I use a 6.8 for hunting hogs and deer and while it's hunting, not 3 gun, the requirements aren't that different with the exception I care more about how the reticle works in very low light into night (hogs, legal)

I have also spent a lot of time at a private training facility engaging steel targets at all ranges

The TR24 works best for me

I will be going to the SHOT show next week want to check in person the ACOGs with the Circle Dot reticle

Charles

www.tacticalhuntingreview.com

Edited January 12, 2010 by ccoker