lugnut Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I have a .270" DIA full length guide rod in my G34 with a Wolff 12lb spring. I used it in practice tonight and I checked it out after. The guide rod itself seems to have some good gouges in it near the end where it slides thru the slide. These are not just scratches! I think when the gun is cycling it scraping along the slide where the rod goes into the slide, not on the muzzle end but I'm not sure. I didn't notice any issues with the slide. Anyone else encounter this? I think it is a Jager rod. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGaultsGun Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 This seems to be an odd problem. I've used many guide rods and never had this happen. When you mention full length rod, is it the standard length or is it the extended length? Is it captured or non-captured? Does this happen on other guide rods or just this one? I wonder if the rod may be flexing or pivoting at the base where it connects with the barrel lug. Can you display a pic of the scratches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I can't comment on the Jager rod as I've never used one. Sorry. I can say that I've never had a problem with a Wolff steel guide with my Wolff Glock springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'm going to go ahead and move this over to the Glock forum, as you might get a better percentage of people reading your question there with the experience to answer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Are these long gouges running most of the length of the rod or close to it? If so, you have the spring on backwards..... Wolff manufactures their springs with a small end and a larger one --- the small end should go on the guiderod first; it's not designed to slide the length of the rod every time the gun cycles but to stay in place..... Some steel wool or fine grit sand paper ought to remove the gouges..... Been there, done that --- ~ 10 years ago..... :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Are these long gouges running most of the length of the rod or close to it? If so, you have the spring on backwards.....Wolff manufactures their springs with a small end and a larger one --- the small end should go on the guiderod first; it's not designed to slide the length of the rod every time the gun cycles but to stay in place..... Some steel wool or fine grit sand paper ought to remove the gouges..... Been there, done that --- ~ 10 years ago..... :lol: This is a full length GR specifically for the G34/G35. The gouges are for the most part around the circumference at some spots. The small end of the spring definitely went in first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'm going to go ahead and move this over to the Glock forum, as you might get a better percentage of people reading your question there with the experience to answer it. Thanks Duane- I don't check out that forum much these days... I'll check it later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) I have seen this. The rod comes with a spring that is smaller at one end than the other. The small end goes to the rear. If you put the smaller end forward, it will get pressed against the rod and scratch it up. Prior to figuring this out, I had exchanged rods with Jager and they found that the finish on the rod I sent them back wasn't as tough as it should have been (some problem in the process). This contributed to the problem. Edited December 22, 2009 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Thanks Duane Yer welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hello: I use the ISMI guide rod and spring with no problem. I think what is happening is the guide rod is rubbing on the slide under recoil. The slide to frame fit on Glocks is not always the best. That allows the spring assemble to move around a bit under recoil causing the scratches you see. The scratches won't hurt anything but makes you think there is more friction there than there should be. The stock guide rod flexes so you don't get that rubbing. There is a video of a Glock under recoil someplace that shows this. I would keep shooting it and have fun. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 I have seen this. The rod comes with a spring that is smaller at one end than the other. The small end goes to the rear. If you put the smaller end forward, it will get pressed against the rod and scratch it up.Prior to figuring this out, I had exchanged rods with Jager and they found that the finish on the rod I sent them back wasn't as tough as it should have been (some problem in the process). This contributed to the problem. Hmmm. I'm about 100% certain that the spring was in correct as I always put the tight end in first. It is a Jager rod so I'll ping them to see what they have to say. The deep marks/gouges on the rod are not preventing the gun from functioning yet I wonder if it is just time before something slows down and I don't get good lock up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hello: I use the ISMI guide rod and spring with no problem. I think what is happening is the guide rod is rubbing on the slide under recoil. The slide to frame fit on Glocks is not always the best. That allows the spring assemble to move around a bit under recoil causing the scratches you see. The scratches won't hurt anything but makes you think there is more friction there than there should be. The stock guide rod flexes so you don't get that rubbing. There is a video of a Glock under recoil someplace that shows this. I would keep shooting it and have fun. Thanks, Eric I think this is exactly what is happening... not sure why so much interferance and damage to the hardened rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Sorry to disagree with the majority, but: That is actually a pretty common problem with the extended 34/35 guide rods, whether tungsten or Steel, and has nothing to do with incorrect installation of the spring. If you look at any Glock (the exception being the blowback-operated 17T Simunitions gun), you'll see that the recoil spring rod actually pivots a bit when the slide it moving to the rear. The tip of the rod moves up, towards the barrel. In a standard length Glock, this causes absolutely no problem, as there's nothing for the rod to hit. Fast forward to the G-34/35: The hole that the spring rests against in the front of the slide is not actually at the end of the slide. The spring seats against a shelf that is about an inch from the muzzle end. There is an extended tunnel that leads from the original-length to the end of the slide. The extended-length rods project on through that tunnel to the end of the slide. When the slide unlocks and starts to come to the rear, the rod pivots upward slightly and taps into the top side of that tunnel, denting or scratching it. Tungsten is more prone to the heavy beating, because it has a little more inertia during the pivot. Stainless rods will do it to a lesser extent. Short guide rods won't do this, because they're not trying to pivot in a long tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Sorry to disagree with the majority, but:That is actually a pretty common problem with the extended 34/35 guide rods, whether tungsten or Steel, and has nothing to do with incorrect installation of the spring. If you look at any Glock (the exception being the blowback-operated 17T Simunitions gun), you'll see that the recoil spring rod actually pivots a bit when the slide it moving to the rear. The tip of the rod moves up, towards the barrel. In a standard length Glock, this causes absolutely no problem, as there's nothing for the rod to hit. Fast forward to the G-34/35: The hole that the spring rests against in the front of the slide is not actually at the end of the slide. The spring seats against a shelf that is about an inch from the muzzle end. There is an extended tunnel that leads from the original-length to the end of the slide. The extended-length rods project on through that tunnel to the end of the slide. When the slide unlocks and starts to come to the rear, the rod pivots upward slightly and taps into the top side of that tunnel, denting or scratching it. Tungsten is more prone to the heavy beating, because it has a little more inertia during the pivot. Stainless rods will do it to a lesser extent. Short guide rods won't do this, because they're not trying to pivot in a long tunnel. And that's the other possibility --- back when I was running Tungsten rods they'd wear in a groove (deeper on the major .40s than on the minor 9mm guns). Eventually wear would stop, and the guns continued to run without problem...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the duck of death Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I made 2 out of full length 1911 guide rods for my 2 G34 open guns. Made them so they work w/ISMI springs. Tapered the ends of the rods and have had no trouble w/them. The key to the above is TAPER, it might help your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 The tungsten rod in my G35 is all chewed up. I wondered what was causing that. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I have both long and short tungsten factory standard diameter guide rods in my 34/35/17 competition guns. Both versions have a circumferential groove near the open end. I have a new std diameter brass rod in - I'll see if that one develops the same problem. (I also have a steel rod that has very light use and no marks - dunno if that's because of little use or harder material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 This is all interesting as the mfr said it may because of a batch of improperly heat treated rods... similar to what Graham Smith mentioned. We'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockcomma Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Braxton1 is exactly right, it will get scratched or grooved to a point then will not get any worse and will not cause any problems just run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 It is an area beyond the range of spring interaction and is totally cosmetic. Though it may be telling you the slide action is pretty violent and it wants a stiffer spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomfab Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I have Jager standard length hardened steel rods in three Glocks (G34, G20, G17 open) with ISMI springs. They all work great. I've had issues with stainless and tungsten rods. Stainless galls pretty bad and the tungsten one had a deep grove worn in it in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager1147 Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I think lugnut just contacted me, I mistakenly sent out possibly several rods without the hardening process. So far I believe only one, and lugnut is number two. (Graham, were you one, correct?) Anyway, if another got out before I caught it I'll replace ASAP. Sorry, my mistake..... You'll se the exact same markings that lugnut is experiencing in tungsten rods as well, that's one of the reasons why I'm not a fan of using tungsten. Our hardened rods will show no markings or scratches. Sorry lug, shipping address in PM or e-mail please. jager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I think lugnut just contacted me, I mistakenly sent out possibly several rods without the hardening process. So far I believe only one, and lugnut is number two. (Graham, were you one, correct?) Correct. But just to be sure all bases are covered, I believe that there is a right way and a wrong way to put the spring on and I believe that I had it wrong the first time which added to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I think lugnut just contacted me, I mistakenly sent out possibly several rods without the hardening process. So far I believe only one, and lugnut is number two. (Graham, were you one, correct?) Anyway, if another got out before I caught it I'll replace ASAP. Sorry, my mistake..... You'll se the exact same markings that lugnut is experiencing in tungsten rods as well, that's one of the reasons why I'm not a fan of using tungsten. Our hardened rods will show no markings or scratches. Sorry lug, shipping address in PM or e-mail please. jager Guy making things right. Another reason I come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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