Reverting to old bad habits

[Cy Soto]

I have been shooting USPSA for two years and I still cannot find a way to prevent myself from revisiting bad shooting habits. I learn something new, add it to my repertoire to fix what I have been doing wrong and one day I find myself doing it all wrong again.

The most recent example is what Duane refers to in this post as "Crushing the Gun": http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=1071648 (and this is just one example)…

I know what it is that I am doing wrong. I correct it during dry and live fire practices but, come match day, I find myself doing it again. What can I do to prevent myself from reverting to bad habits?

[Bigpops]

Take this for what it is worth as I have only been at this for a little over a year BUT.... try using a rubber band for trigger manipulation. I do it all the time, especially during meetings. It has helped me isolate my trigger finger and avoid the "CRUSH".

In regards to all of the other stuff...RELAX and realize this is all about having fun. I am competitive but I still have FUN above everything else! Videotape yourself and catch the little things, then work on them. Ask other forum members to critique you (CHA-LEE is awesome)

It's funny, when I first started all of this i watched every video, read every book, and focused on it all. Though there is some great info out there on the basics...if what your doing works for you then go with it. If the next top shooter in the world wins it all and states "I chew Big Red gum during every match"...gum sales would go up!

[Cy Soto]

I am blessed to say that CHA-LEE and I shoot and sometimes practice together. He is not only great at analyzing another shooter's game and providing great feedback, but he also does it in a way that it is easy to understand and put into practice. I have seen him go from a D shooter to Master in record-breaking time; and not by luck or raw talent, this guy is dedicated to the sport and he loves sharing his knowledge with anyone who is willing to listen.

My problem goes beyond that... What happens to me is that I "fix" something and, a few weeks or months later, I find myself doing it all over again. It's as if my mind can only concentrate on dealing with one issue at the time. I concentrate on shooting accurately and I forget how to shoot on the move. I learn how to shoot on the move and all of a sudden I can't enter a position to save my life... That's the kind of thing that frustrates me and I just don't know how to shake off!

Edited December 16, 2009 by Cy Soto

[Bigpops]

I am blessed to say that CHA-LEE and I shoot and sometimes practice together. He is not only great at analyzing another shooter's game and providing great feedback, but he also does it in a way that it is easy to understand and put into practice. I have seen him go from a D shooter to Master in record-breaking time; and not by luck or raw talent, this guy is dedicated to the sport and he loves sharing his knowledge with anyone who is willing to listen.

My problem goes beyond that... What happens to me is that I "fix" something and, a few weeks or months later, I find myself doing it all over again. It's as if my mind can only concentrate on dealing with one issue at the time. I concentrate on shooting accurately and I forget how to shoot on the move. I learn how to shoot on the move and all of a sudden I can't enter a position to save my life... That's the kind of thing that frustrates me and I just don't know how to shake off!

Cy - that is soooo cool that you are friends with CHA-LEE. My wife and I wish we were closer to you guys! I would drive him nuts!!!

Let me ask you this...do you have the same thing happen with other sports or things you try to master?

[CHA-LEE]

Here is my effort to get you to try and think outside the box. I am not saying that any or all of this is “THE SOLUTION” for your situation. But it should be at least give you something to think about.

How do you KNOW that your practice is as effective as you think it is? Is what you practice what you perform during a subconscious stage run?

Is there really something wrong with revisiting and or resolving the same “issues” over and over? Every skill is perishable, is it not?

If you are trying to consciously command something in a stage run, then your overall performance will suffer because you are not shooting from a subconscious state. Do you not trust in your practiced skills to just let it happen at a match in a subconscious state?

When your resolved issues crop up again as what you think are resurrected bad habits are you sure that they are exactly the same bad habit returning? Maybe it’s a whole new challenge cropping up that just seems like a previous issue? A good example would be shooting speed verses calling shots. As your shooting speed increases your shot calling gets worse until you are “Use to” seeing and shooting at the new faster speed. Every time you bump up your shooting speed it may seem that you are reverting back to not calling your shots, but in fact you are trying to call your shots but doing it at the slower old speed so the process is broken. Its not until you match your seeing speed to the shooting speed that it all starts working again. The same could be said for everything else. Any time you take whatever skill to the next level it seems broken until you get use to it.

When I see you shoot I can see a switch flip at some point and you stop calling your shots and start to point shoot targets as you try to go fast. To take your shooting to the next level, you need to beat it into your head that every shot deserves to be respected and thus seen. Once you resolve yourself to see every shot it will not be too long until you find that you can see way faster than you can physically shoot the gun. So there is never a reason to not see and call every shot not matter how fast or slow you feel that the given target needs to be shot.

A perfect example of this is when I shot my lady’s .40 Minor gun in the last practice session we had together. That gun cycles very fast and has zero muzzle flip when I shoot it so I can SEE the next shot all that much faster. I was able to shoot her gun WAY faster than mine simply because I was able to call my shots that much faster due to not being limited by the mechanical recoil management of the gun (Waiting for the sights to return). I didn’t tell myself to “SHOOT FASTER”. I simply shot the gun as fast as I could call the shots. Does this make sense?

[kevin c]

It may be that you are reverting to old "muscle memory" patterns because, under the stress of competition, your body will unconsciously do what it is most trained to do, even if that isn't what is best or not even the most recent training done.

Lots of (good, correctly performed) reps are what most every training regimen requires to "burn in" a new technique. Three thousand plus is what I keep hearing, (which may be why my own progress is glacial). Hopefully after 3K, the new technique is the pattern your body will default to unconsciously.

my $0.02,

kc

[Morgan]

Cy - regular (think daily) dry fire will "burn in" most techniques, especially when you're changing something. You've got to practice it until it becomes the norm, overriding your old programming.

Live fire will confirm that you've sucessfully reprogrammed your mind.

[Duane Thomas]

CHA-LEE,

Excellent post.

[Bigpops]

Here is my effort to get you to try and think outside the box. I am not saying that any or all of this is “THE SOLUTION” for your situation. But it should be at least give you something to think about.

How do you KNOW that your practice is as effective as you think it is? Is what you practice what you perform during a subconscious stage run?

Is there really something wrong with revisiting and or resolving the same “issues” over and over? Every skill is perishable, is it not?

If you are trying to consciously command something in a stage run, then your overall performance will suffer because you are not shooting from a subconscious state. Do you not trust in your practiced skills to just let it happen at a match in a subconscious state?

When your resolved issues crop up again as what you think are resurrected bad habits are you sure that they are exactly the same bad habit returning? Maybe it’s a whole new challenge cropping up that just seems like a previous issue? A good example would be shooting speed verses calling shots. As your shooting speed increases your shot calling gets worse until you are “Use to” seeing and shooting at the new faster speed. Every time you bump up your shooting speed it may seem that you are reverting back to not calling your shots, but in fact you are trying to call your shots but doing it at the slower old speed so the process is broken. Its not until you match your seeing speed to the shooting speed that it all starts working again. The same could be said for everything else. Any time you take whatever skill to the next level it seems broken until you get use to it.

When I see you shoot I can see a switch flip at some point and you stop calling your shots and start to point shoot targets as you try to go fast. To take your shooting to the next level, you need to beat it into your head that every shot deserves to be respected and thus seen. Once you resolve yourself to see every shot it will not be too long until you find that you can see way faster than you can physically shoot the gun. So there is never a reason to not see and call every shot not matter how fast or slow you feel that the given target needs to be shot.

A perfect example of this is when I shot my lady’s .40 Minor gun in the last practice session we had together. That gun cycles very fast and has zero muzzle flip when I shoot it so I can SEE the next shot all that much faster. I was able to shoot her gun WAY faster than mine simply because I was able to call my shots that much faster due to not being limited by the mechanical recoil management of the gun (Waiting for the sights to return). I didn’t tell myself to “SHOOT FASTER”. I simply shot the gun as fast as I could call the shots. Does this make sense?

+1

#1 on your Christmas card list!

[Arc Angel]

This is actually a complex, tough to answer, question; and, this response might seem too easy, ...... Practice more!

By the way, physical skill doesn't necessarily degrade over time; the mind is able to retain timing and technique(s) which the body is no longer able to perform well. (It's called, 'getting old'.) This is particularly noticeable with very consciously held and/or only moderately learned skills. You know like what happens when you play golf no more than once every three or four months. Tiger Woods you're never going to be!

I've seen this sort of, 'proprioceptive confusion' happen to older shooters after a heart attack or long illness. The less ingrained a skill is, the tougher - or more impossible - it's going to be to regain.

The remedy? Frequent visualization, and any form of practice (live or dry firing) that stimulates both memory recall AND physical performance. If two separate events are screwing you up, and you have to revert to highly conscious behavior in order to perform well, then, I'd have to say that neither skill has been properly learned.

People I consider to be masters of their craft are those who are able to, BOTH, perform well and clearly explain the, 'Why's' and, 'Wherefore's' of what they do. To me, this is a perfect - retainable and readily usable - level of physical performance. So, the short answer remains; 'Practice more!'

Edited December 16, 2009 by Arc Angel

[benos]

There is practice, and there is competition. Just because you consistently do something correctly in practice does not mean you will do it in competiton.

The stress accompanying competition creates a whole new world you have to learn to operate in.

If you're problem now is clamping down on the gun to hard on competition, work on only that when you compete. Come up with "shooter ready/stand by" mental game that will allow you to feel calm and aware of your grip and arm tension before you fire the first shot. Don't be in a hurry to get shooting.

The grip/arm tension you feel when you are shooting a stage in a match will not feel anything like what if feels like in practice.

You might experiment with a mental command something like: "I'm going to shoot with 80% of the grip tension I shoot with in practice."

be

[Cy Soto]

There is a lot of wonderful information in all of these replies! I will take all of these suggestions and break them down into smaller chunks so that I can put them into practice. This will help me pinpoint the source of my problem so I can hopefully do away with it.

Thank you all for the great advice!

Cy

[SA Friday]

I'll throw this in there too, Cy. You and Sandra should take a class. Avery does them here regularly. There are opportunities from other instructors around here regularly too. I've struggled all year, and it finally came together again here in the last 1 1/2 months. A lot of that was a class with Avery and a class with Burkette. One open shooter in peticular around here took both of the above classes and a 2 day long private with Avery. Bet you can guess who. Charlie's also been pretty active in the class taking this year also. It makes a difference; it solidifies proper form, identifies what you are doing wrong and how to fix it, and helps establishes how to practice properly.

It makes a difference.

[Cy Soto]

Let me ask you this...do you have the same thing happen with other sports or things you try to master?

Other than shooting, I can't say that I currently have any other hobbies. In the past I have practiced other sports competitively such as martial arts and chess and I cannot remember ever reverting back to old habits. I think that the main difference is that shooting requires a subconscious approach and these other disciplines require a conscious reaction to an opponent's attack.

[Duane Thomas]

At the higher levels, would not martial arts require a subconscious reaction to the opponent's attack?

[Cy Soto]

At the higher levels, would not martial arts require a subconscious reaction to the opponent's attack?

Yes and no... It is true that instinctive reaction to an attack is subconscious but, after you have deflected or neutralized an opponent's offensive, you have to make a conscious decision about what your next plan of attack is going to be. This becomes very obvious when you pay attention at how much information a top level boxing or MMA athlete is receiving from his corner. His mind may be working at a million miles an hour but, amongst the chaos of screams from the fans, he can distinctively pick out his trainer's instructions and implement these into his counterattack.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Cy Soto

[Flexmoney]

I have been shooting USPSA for two years and I still cannot find a way to prevent myself from revisiting bad shooting habits. I learn something new, add it to my repertoire to fix what I have been doing wrong and one day I find myself doing it all wrong again.

The most recent example is what Duane refers to in this post as "Crushing the Gun": http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=1071648 (and this is just one example)…

I know what it is that I am doing wrong. I correct it during dry and live fire practices but, come match day, I find myself doing it again. What can I do to prevent myself from reverting to bad habits?

You keep referring to the thing you are doing "wrong". You are giving power to the bad habit...making it first and foremost in your mind.

The "new" thing... have you REALLY bought off on it mentally? Do you believe in it, or is there some doubt?

Can you see yourself doing the "new" thing? Doing it well?

What is the value to you of the "new" thing? Is that value worth the effort? REALLY ?

Decide. Then make it so.