Bullet holes

[TWHaz]

I asked Brian if seeing bullet holes in some of the targets while shooting a stage is part of progressing.

I shoot a dot gun with a target focus.

He answered that while I may be seeing more as I progress (i.e. holes appearing in the target) my eyes should have called the shot good and left for the next target.

I took that to mean if my focus was on the target long enough to see the holes appear It was costing me time.

Thanks Brian.

[Blueridge]

I have wondered about that myself. I have watched a number of the high finish shooters that fire "makeup" shots on targets that they apparently don't feel that they hit well. The curious thing is that the delay between their original shots and the "makeup" suggests to me that they are checking the target. This would be counter to the "eyes calling the shot" that I have heard many speak of. Another situation that I see are some of these same shooters going back to targets that they have engaged earlier for "makeup" shots.

At some point it seems that many shooters scan the targets for hits during the engagement of the stage. The idea of trusting the initial engagement of the targets seems reasonable, but happens less that many suggest from my observation. The goal is to be able to trust the initial shots, but if you don't make up bad shots you are doing yourself a disservice also. I think everyone checks the targets, but don't admit or realize that they are.

The idea is not to "stare" at the targets, but to "passively" realize the effects of your engagement.

I am sure better shooters than I have different opinions on this, but I can only provide mine.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Blueridge

[LPatterson]

Having worked some Nationals I feel most of the higher finishing shooters are reading their sights iron or dot. I have seen cases where a shooter would go back 2 or 3 targets for a makeup shot for what was a D hit when the transition was so fast that they could not have been scanning the targets for hits. Golfers can sometimes sense in the middle of a swing that something is not right and try to make subtle corrections, at least if announcers are to be believed. On a very good practice day I can feel that a shot went astray without looking at the target because I have already gone to the next shot. In a match I slow down a lot and spend more time watching the sights but that does not mean looking at the targets. I shoot with bifocals so my choices are clear sights & fuzzy target or a clear target & fuzzy sights and my head bob is not fast enough to see a hole in the target so I have to trust the sights.

[G-ManBart]

When I'm shooting well I'll make up shots without really thinking about it. When I'm not shooting so well I'll either see the poor shot or realize something wasn't quite right and then make it up. There is a huge difference between the two. I shot an indoor practice match the other night and the one shot I made up on paper was absolutely without thought. I didn't see the hit (shooting Production) and afterwards realized I'd called it high and left. Sure enough, it was a D in the upper left corner when I checked the targets. Luckily I made it up with an A

In a similar fashion, they had one array with a dropout no-shoot that started out blocking a target to the right and fell in front of the target on the left. I hit the activator, put two in the left paper and then two in the right paper. I absolutely never looked at the left target after breaking the second shot because I was getting on the right paper as the no-shoot cleared the right target. I knew I got both shots in on the left target and called both as A's.....checked the target and that's exactly what happened, but I didn't really "think" about it until holstering the gun.

I think that shot-calling could really be broken down into a spectrum from just barely calling shots to perfectly calling shots. On the one end you know it was a hit, but maybe you only know generally where it is. On the other end you can call it almost to the exact spot...within less than an inch many times.

[TWHaz]

Seeing holes in the targets is not calling shots, Is what Brian is telling me.

I am getting to the point to where if I " CALL" a shot a D I will make it up.

If I "THINK" it was a D I have moved on.

There is a time difference between the two.

In the "THINK" scenario I will be talking to myself for the rest of the course ( not shooting in present tense) and go back to the target at the end of my run if it is visible from the position.

99% of the time the makeup shot is worth it on the "CALLING" run, not the other unless it was a miss.

Some times I still see holes but not as much as before.

[Loves2Shoot]

IMO the only time to look for holes in the targets are when they are scoring the stage, or if you are shooting some weird position where you are point shooting targets and the gun is not in front of your face (I find this works in IDPA where you must use cover or shoot really weird positions.)

[JThompson]

Seeing holes in the targets is not calling shots, Is what Brian is telling me.

I am getting to the point to where if I " CALL" a shot a D I will make it up.

If I "THINK" it was a D I have moved on.

There is a time difference between the two.

In the "THINK" scenario I will be talking to myself for the rest of the course ( not shooting in present tense) and go back to the target at the end of my run if it is visible from the position.

99% of the time the makeup shot is worth it on the "CALLING" run, not the other unless it was a miss.

Some times I still see holes but not as much as before.

You will not see the holes appear if you are calling the shots because of the muzzle rise. On your second shot you would have to wait for the gun to return to 'see' your hit and at that point you should already be transitioning to your next target. If you are seeing that second hit you are wasting time........

Hint, I always take the bottom target first if the array lets me, that way the muzzle is rising into the next target and I'm not trying to fight recoil to get a shot on target. Also you can see where you are driving too.

Edited December 6, 2009 by JThompson

[kevin c]

"You're looking for the holes", was the observation I heard given by one Master level shooter to another on the way, who was wondering why he was slower, even though his technique was M class level.

I've always been taught - see the FS (or dot, as the case may be) rise off the POA. Don't look for the hole in the paper, don't listen for the hit ring on the steel. Not to say that it's easy to avoid those things. I got burned really bad on that at A2, even though I know better.

[lugnut]

Seeing holes in the targets is not calling shots, Is what Brian is telling me.

Yes it's not. However when I am in real close and use target focus I do see my first hole and usually my 2nd... but no, that's NOT calling shots.. it's just a side effect of being so close. Good indexing of your gun and seeing enough of the gun/sights while focusing on the target should be all you need to do.

I won't lie- I can't yet call all my shots at all distances. BUT- I rarely "look" for holes to validate my shots... first of all it's not good, you should really try to call your shots, but it also takes up valuable time! I try to shoot a match virginia count as much as possible to force myself to focus on my sights... only if I know the sight picture was bad will I make up shots. I can usually call D's but it's hard for me to "see" (by calling shots) a A or a close C. But I do get occasional Mikes on Comstock stages so I can't be calling them that well!

[joecichlid]

For me, I TRY to call my shots (lately getting better at it) and sometimes I see the hole from the first shot as I break the second shot. Mind you this greatly depends on the distance to the target, but with the speed of the stages I have been shooting lately you just don't have time to see anything more than what you NEED to see (sights/dot lift as you break the shot).

I made up a missed shot on the second target, not because I didn't see the hole but because I didn't see my dot on the target when the shot broke. It was D/M and I made up the M with a C hit in what seemed to be no time at all. It really does take a lot of practice to get good at shot calling, I still have a long way to go.

Joe W.

[BSeevers]

Calling a shot is an absolute. You either did or didn't.

No guessing, thinking, hoping or luck involved.

The real twist is most people require lot's of practice and time to be able to do it. You can't just say "today I am calling my shots"

I become "aware" of bullet holes sometimes when I shoot but don't look for them is a shot calling context

[benos]

With irons or a dot, "calling the shot" means you know where the bullet will hit the target before it does.

be