BSeevers Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I can shoot 1.5X-1.65 cold with my Open and Limited .10 -.20 slower at 7 yards. Bill Drill(good name ) are measures of relaxation and trigger control. I learned the most about them and myself when I practiced six shots with eyes closed into the bank. YMMV and I never said to shoot with your eyes closed. I think awareness and relaxation are important to the 10th degree. We all achieve these via different paths, hopefully. Bill drills are not the end. They can become the means to an end. Just like anything don't let them become a end. Some people spend a lifetime trying to draw a .75, well in a match, that means very little if your exit times off of "every" array is .5 less than your opponents. That said its been said before "a second is lifetime". That's the difference between TGO and the rest of us. I love this game PS If you want to measure yourself compared to the great ones then put in the time and effort. They did. Sorry feeling squirrley in my absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 PS "Calls shots" who came up with that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Bill I have been accused of shooting with my eyes closed any number of times, after the scores came in. I don't pin lots of importance on a Bill Drill by itself. In the big picture, it means very little. If you can shoot a time that is about 2 flat you won't loose many match points with that time and you haven't shot yourself in the foot by trying to go very low and ending up lots of points down. Just my philosophy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 tightloop Right on. Just try not to use the Force patawan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Wow, this thread is a real blast from the past! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukipsc Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I am shooting a factory .45 single-stack, no competative enhancements at all. Rob L. says begin BD's at 6 seconds and work faster from there. Rob L. shoots 6 shots in 2 seconds or less (probably much less). How fast can a GM go with a factory gun. For my gun and caliber what should I consider a "fast" BD (assuming 0 down). I would like to know what the top end is so I can begin setting some realistic goals. And how far is a target in BD? I trainin it at 5, 9 and 13 metres. I want try compare yours and my results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 lukipsc: The Bill Drill being discussed here is at 7 yards on the metric target. There is also a thread lurking around about 10 yard Bill Drills. That extra three yards can make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 lukipsc We all have goals, just that some are more realistic than others. Example: TGO has shot a BD, clean, in I think 1.36, or less than 1.4 I know. There are guys on this forum who can shoot a sub 4.0 sec El Prez. May I suggest that you not become obsessed with singular drills and instead concentrate on a more rounded practice routine to enhance your skill set in ALL areas instead of just a few. Noone ever won any match by shooting a sub 4 sec El Prez or a sub 1.5 BD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I ditto TL. I like to shoot basic drills every other week and record my first 3 scores. I then look over it at the end of the month and see where I am improving, and more importantly, where I am still lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 All this talk about drills, especially the bill drills made me wonder where I stood. I never really tried any of the drills but thought it would be fun to post and have other people put up their times. The * represents clean runs, all alpha's. Draw, 1 shot @ 7 yrds ( these were all Alpha's) .82, .84, .79, .73, .81, .77, .68, .71 Bill Drill @ 7yrds 1.73, 1.60*, 1.65, 1.62, 1.54*, 1.52, 1.65, 1.53, 1.46*, 1.62, 1.53* El Pres 10yrds, targets spaced 5 feet 4.97, 4.89, 4.87, 4.56, 4.53, 4.57, 5.31, 4.44, 4.45 None shoot totally clean. Average was 3-4 points down. Focused on getting my head turned faster and times started to drop. Reloads for above El Pres. 1.17, 1.47, 1.18, 1.19, 1.09, 1.91, 1.09, 1.13 Wasen't able to break the 1 sec mark @ 10y@ 10 yrds. Draws were all pretty consistant. The turn and draw I worked on getting my head snapped around and that saved me some time. Bill drill I need to work on. I was definately over driving the gun. Also my cadence was not consistant, so tension was killing me. Interesting drills though. I'll have to work them into my practice more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 Paul Very impressive. Is this with an Open gun or something else. I can do the single draw and shoot an A in the same kind of timeframes you did, but not even close on the BD or the El Prez. I am sure they were, but you didn't say if all the BD's you shot were all A hits. We won't talk about the difference in our times on the El Prez, but our points down are about the same... Again, very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 Tightloop, Yes this is with an open gun. Thanks for the compliment, but mucho room for improvement. Only the ones with the * were all A's. So I need to work on that. I could tell when I started to get really tense that my splits/cadence started to get off. Whole setup Grand Master STI w/ recoil master CR speed holster 115 gr MG JHP/N350 powder Safariland belt and mag pouches I learned a whole lot more than expected doing these drills and plan to incorporate them more in my training/practice sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 Hmmm...now I know why Paul has the letters GM on his classification card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 I just tried the drill to finish my practice awhile ago. I shot 7 bill drills and got 3 in less than 2 seconds. all A's The best was a 1.78. I got one at 1.6 but 1 C so that does not count. Its such a wonderful feeling to do this drill and get to talk about it. The sights just went up and down and up and down was using a classic ipsc target and an svi limited gun, ill try it again using a ipsc human target and see if i can bring it down some more. Great thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecajberry Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 As a new forum member, I have to ask. What are BD's and how are they done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lndshrk Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Practice, practice, practice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 at 7 yards ipsc target, not classic ipsc, draw and fire 6 shots in the A zone. only A's count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Did one yesterday in 1.81 with all A's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 a week after taking a class with voigt i shot my first b.d. in under two seconds 1.82 limited. Also the first time I broke one second on the draw at seven yards with an A hit (.95). with my open pig the best I've gotten down to was 1.91 with a 1.05 draw and .15 and .16 splits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Funny story. Shows to that we all have bad days. Also shows that when the pressure is on, who knows what may happen. SHot a classifier match Sunday. Stage 1 had a drop that I called but it was VC and I let it go. Stage 2 mag fell out of the gun, then I ran it dry. Stage 3 missed the reload terribly. Stage 4 shot ok but wild stage 5 missed the reload AGAIN stage 6 Hey I got one right! Just a weird day, felt out of my groove all day. So yea, practice those drills and work on the fundementals, but some days you just have realize thet "you ain't got today!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORCA Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Finally got a few nice days in to practice and did a few 10 yard bill drills. The best was a 1.42 with a .67 draw. The average was between 1.5 and 1.6 with draws ranging in the .73 to .78 area, all A's. I'm around .3 faster on the drill than I was in the summer, and my hits are a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 WOW, smokin runs ORCA. At 10yrds even. What class and what kind of gun? .67 draw is quick as hell..... Congrats!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORCA Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Paul W, Thanks, it's taken a lot of dry fire to get the draws down ( I've been on the Determinator program) and a lot of live fire watching the front sight. Well your going to laugh your ass off. I'm a 50% limited and a 67% limited 10 shooter. I really blow at classifers. The gun is a heavy limited STI .40 I built myself. I pulled a .1 off my draw since the summer and my splits went from the high teens to the low teens. More important to me though my draw accuracy is extremly improved, and my groups at speed are much tighter. This drill just happens to play to my strengths. I think everybody has a skill or two they naturally excel at, the draw is mine. My goal for the new year is a consistant sub .7 draw on demand in matches with solid accuray. I slow down on the draw in matches to get better accuracy, .8 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 ORCA, Not laughing at all, that's awesome. "Sucking at classifiers" sounds like is just in your head. If you can pull off .8 draws on demand, you'll never need anymore to go as far as you want to. Faster never hurts though. Great job, keep it up!! And quit blowing those classifiers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 May I suggest that you not become obsessed with singular drills and instead concentrate on a more rounded practice routine to enhance your skill set in ALL areas instead of just a few. Noone ever won any match by shooting a sub 4 sec El Prez or a sub 1.5 BD... Makes sense to me. I think our gracious host has pointed out that a good test of your ability at any given time is not your best time/score on a drill after hours of practice, but what you can do cold. His example was that it actually took him years to do a clean BD (presumably under the master par time) cold, first shots out of the holster for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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