RV Owners

[G-ManBart]

My wife and I have two large dogs that travel with us, which makes things a bit difficult, and we generally like to go places where there really aren't many (or any) hotels so she's started looking into RVs after I joked about them. I figured they might be an awesome way to travel to big matches....drive, park on/near the range and be right there. We'd tow her FJ Cruiser for getting around the local area on most trips.

Now, a couple of things to consider: Princess (my wife Laurie) doesn't camp and isn't into the "outdoor experience" other than running, hiking, etc....she's not sleeping in a tent or even a trailer....i.e. it's got to be as nice as a reasonable hotel. That pretty much narrows it down to an RV. Neither of us are minimalists, so something bigger is likely to be more along the lines of what we'd need. I'm thinking it absolutely has to be a diesel...not dealing with gas. I've seen some pretty nice Tiffin Allegro Bay and Allegro Bus (used), both in the 37-38ft range) that seemed like they'd fit our needs, but I've done only a little research and am only familiar with a few brands.

So, with that as a background, does anybody have any recommendations, warnings etc? We're nowhere near a decision, but it seems like it might fun and let us do a few things we haven't been able to lately. The other thing is that the prices seemed to have taken a huge hit in the last year and what cost $200K a year ago seems to be more like $150K now....so if we do it, we probably won't wait terribly long. Any info would be greatly appreciated! R,

[Merlin Orr]

You think a boat is a hole in the water to throw money into........

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: There is a magazine called Trailer Life. It will be your friend when you start reading it. They tell things just as they are with no bull like some of the car magazines who have to keep there advertisers happy. A friend of mine had a motorhome that uses a Mercedes diesel(Dodge sprinter, Freightliner) van front and a euro interior design. I believe it was called a Navion and was distributed by Winnabago I think. It was getting between 17-24 mpg which is great in my books. It is not a huge motorhome but would fit your needs nicely. They do have different interior layouts that may work better for you. Another option may be an old Toyota motorhome that you could change the gas engine over to a diesel or V6. I like the first option Motorhomes do take some work but the Navion are very well built and the engine will last a very long time. Get yourself a trailer life magazine and start shopping. I just thought of another option is a motorhome called a Scotty that uses a Dodge pickup front end and they convert it to a motorhome. Thanks, Eric

[Toolguy]

I've always thought If I wanted to travel, I'd get a big 5th wheel trailer and big diesel pickup truck instead of a motor home. It seems to me like a

motor home would be like driving a barn on wheels. With the other rig you could probably turn sharper getting around in towns and park easier.

Also it would probably be cheaper to do maintainence on the truck than the MH. Then when you get where you're going, park the trailer and run around in the truck. The wind might not blow you around on the road as much in a truck based rig, I'm not real sure about that one. Anyway, a 5th wheel trailer can be just as nice as a motor home. I'm sure there are some who have experience with this - It will be interesting to see what

they have to say.

[G-ManBart]

I've always thought If I wanted to travel, I'd get a big 5th wheel trailer and big diesel pickup truck instead of a motor home. It seems to me like a

motor home would be like driving a barn on wheels. With the other rig you could probably turn sharper getting around in towns and park easier.

Also it would probably be cheaper to do maintainence on the truck than the MH. Then when you get where you're going, park the trailer and run around in the truck. The wind might not blow you around on the road as much in a truck based rig, I'm not real sure about that one. Anyway, a 5th wheel trailer can be just as nice as a motor home. I'm sure there are some who have experience with this - It will be interesting to see what

they have to say.

The problem I'd have with a 5th wheel is that I already have a barely 2yr old $50K pickup that is awesome, but not really enough to haul a big 5th wheel the way I'd like. It's got a hauling rating of over 10K, but it's still not a big diesel dually. We use it for shorter trips and there's no way I'm taking the hit on selling/trading it, so it's staying....having two trucks would be overkill. I also wonder whether financing is the same on trailers as RV's....haven't looked at that at all.

[AlamoShooter]

Check your state tax on RVs = Texas is OK But our friends in Colorado pay a big bite each year.....Big Bite on RV tax.

Rent one first for a week I traveled one time 900 miles each way in one If ..If I could buy a $200,000 RV for $70,000 and I could not sell it rite away. I would not spend the $70,000

you can get a nice 5th wheel and a nice crew cab truck for that much

I got a small used trailer that we are very happy with , But my wife likes to camp

[Greg Bell]

If you have a decent tow rating on your truck you could buy a nice bumper pull trailer for a song right about now. Modern RV's of all types really allow you to be pretty comfortable without having to "camp".

[Merlin Orr]

I am on my 3rd 5th wheel and really think they are the best of all worlds. LOTS more room per ft. of length than a coach and way less expensive. Trade your truck in on a Crew Cab F250 or F350 single wheel Power Stroke and buy a 33-36' Holiday Rambler and rock and roll. MUCH cheaper in every regard and you can park the trailer and travel in style in your Stroke when you are tooling around at various locations in your travels.... My F350 will pull my 33' at way over legal limits like it is not even behind me. A bumper pull is OK but they sure can get away from you if your pull vehicle is to light or certain road/wind/speed combinations occur...

[G-ManBart]

I am on my 3rd 5th wheel and really think they are the best of all worlds. LOTS more room per ft. of length than a coach and way less expensive. Trade your truck in on a Crew Cab F250 or F350 single wheel Power Stroke and buy a 33-36' Holiday Rambler and rock and roll. MUCH cheaper in every regard and you can park the trailer and travel in style in your Stroke when you are tooling around at various locations in your travels.... My F350 will pull my 33' at way over legal limits like it is not even behind me. A bumper pull is OK but they sure can get away from you if your pull vehicle is to light or certain road/wind/speed combinations occur...

My current truck has a bigger back seat area than even a super crew F450....this is a biggie for us on shorter trips as I pop out the back seats and the pooches have enough room. So, that would be a step back. Second, I may wind up where my current truck is my back and forth to work truck and I'm not doing that in DC traffic in a big diesel, dually.

Trading/selling the current truck is a non-starter really so that only leaves the coach style as a viable option. Sure, it'll cost more, but I'm willing to deal with that and just tow our FJ for tooling around when we get places. R,

[oddjob]

I used to shoot with a guy who drove a 30 ft motorhome to all local matches. He is quite wealthy and had all sorts of motorhomes of various sizes. He told me the 30 footer was the best for him. He said it was small enough where he could and would use it. If the RV is too big he told me he wouldn't use it and thats the worst thing for an RV (I guess). I'm retiring in Dec and thought about a motorhome too, but my friends talked me out of it. All said it costs too much $$.

[Flexmoney]

I don't know anything about these guys, other than they have been advertising all over since forever. http://www.tomraper.com/rv_home.html

Used has GOT to be the way to go. Especially in the motor city area. (Tough economy often equals graet deals on non-liquid assets!)

I like the idea of renting one first for a practice trip. (have we had this question before?)

I've got a buddy that digs into this stuff all the time. (He just bought a Hummer and is trailering it back across the country, as we speak. He will be the guy running lunch at the Ohio/IPSC in a few weeks.)

[Hank Ellis]

You think a boat is a hole in the water to throw money into........

+2

Owned two campers. Bought both of them used and took a huge depreciation hit on both. The money I spent on those two would have paid for hotel and rental car for many a trip. Never again. If I need a camper I'll rent.

If you don't have a hobby now, just buy a camper. There is always something to fix on it.

[Jim Norman]

Gman,

I bought an RV two years ago to take my family on trips AND to go to matches with. Mine is a Gas powered 32 foot Itasca. Mileage is NOT that of what I read the Diesels get, however, to get into a diesel, a new one at least with the features I wanted was at least double the price. Do the math and see if the higher price is justified. Now understand you can bget a bigger heavier unit with a bigger CGVW and a higher tow rating, but be sure you really need or want it.

Mine has ample power and room. Engine is a V10, I tow my Jeep Liberty with no problems. I've driven from NJ to Tulsa and Ft Benning for matches and to quite a few closer matches with up to 4 buddies.

Buying used can be a real deal. IF you are careful. There are three things to be aware of, the vehicle, the coach and the RV appliances. I suggest that you join Family Motor Coach and Good Same before you buy and read through there archives.

Jim Norman

[Brian Payne]

I have to go against the grain on this one.

I have owned the truck/5th. wheel, and for me, the thing I didn't like was that the vacation started once you unhooked the 5th. wheel. The drive was not an enjoyable experience for me, my wife, or my dogs.

We then switched to a 27' C-class motorhome and have had it much nicer the last few years. The vacation starts as soon as you turn the key. The longest trip we take for a shoot is from Minnesota to Raton NM for the Rocky Mountain 3-gun. The 1200 mile trip is much more enjoyable in the motorhome than the truck and 5th wheel. We crunched the numbers and even at almost $4.00 per gallon of gas last year it was cheaper than flying and renting rooms.

We just test drove a nice A-class (gas) and I was surprised at how nice it drove, but they are much larger when going down the road. My smaller C-class drove through downtown Denver while coming home from the last RM3G and it really was no different than driving a van. Where an A-class is truely like driving a bus.

If you are going to pull a Toad and drive through any mountain passes, you would probably be better off with a Diesel. But don't expect it to get better fuel mileage than a gasser, and maintenance is more when it comes to oil changes etc.. Another plus for the A-class rigs is that they have incredible storeage in the basement. That is the one thing my C-class lacks.

A good place to go and get questions answered by people in the know is www.rv.net/forum. There is a lot of experienced people on that site.

[Seth]

In a previous life, we were traveling to the desert every weekend with Jeeps to go rock crawling. Many of the friends I spent time with had motor homes.

Most of them started with front engine, gas, van chassis Class C. Relatively inexpensive to acquire, maintain and were basic RVs. As time went on, a bunch of them went up to Class A diesel pushers with pop outs built typically on an international truck chassis. WORLD of difference. Automatic leveling, higher appointments, HUGE main cabin, flat floor (motor in back), etc... The truck chassis made it ride and drive much better. For towing a vehicle, I wouldn't do without a full flatbed trailer. Makes a few things harder, and most things a LOT easier and safer.

While I never bought one, I looked and researched more than once. The level of appointments is where you can really nickle and dime yourself. Pop outs make a claustrophobic little cabin into a big comfortable room. The head/shower was a make or break for my wife. She could deal with the tiny master, but HATED the little showers....

[lmccrock]

We lived in a 34" Class A for almost a year: me, wife, 2 dogs and a cat. The Ford gas V10 was ok, but the 4-speed transmission really needed 1-2 more gears. It was nice having everything in the coach, and not have to transfer us and the animals to the living space, especially in bad weather. Usually the generator was running when we were going (to run the roof AC); that means my wife could run the sewing machine while I drove.

Couple of hints. Make sure there is a vent fan in the bathroom (not always standard). And solar film on the windows, especially in the southwest in summer time.

If you tow a car with 4 wheels behind with a motorhome, remember the car's steering wheels are unlocked, so you cannot back up with toad attached. Some cars can go 4 wheels down, some not, ours did. Never had a problem, but most of our stops were at big stations or truck stops. If you are going into spaces where backing up is necessary, the trailer+truck will work better. But most parks have pull-through spaces.

A motorhome is a big asset to leave laying around, unless you use it alot, which is why we sold ours after getting a house. You need insurance year 'round, and that is another expense.

Lee

[Jim Norman]

Consider if you will use the camper regularly. You probably cannot rent one cheap enough to make it pay on a regular basis. Rent one to see if the wifle likes it , but don't make that your standard procedure. In fact I strongly suggest you try before you buy.

There are many type of RV available.

Trailers are the least expensive, but can also be very costly. They fall into several categories, Soft pop-up, hard pop-up, folding, full trailer type and 5th wheel. All can have a lot of amenities, today even soft pop-ups have AC.

Motorhomes/Campers fall into essentially four types: Class B which are built on a sprinter Chassis or similar, generally comfy for two, small easy to drive and manuever. Can probably still tow a small car. Class C which is built usually on a Ford or Chevy van chasis. Larger, can actually be over 30 feet and can tow a car, limited storage and the cab area isn't really a part of the living area when you are set up as a camp. next comes the "Motorhome" or bus type, these are not neccesarily built on a bus chassis, but have that appearance. They usually have the most amenities. At the top of this line is the Bus Conversion (Prevost, MCI priced new usually over a million and heading towards 2) In between or alongside is a "Super-C" (this is actually a trademark of one company) these are large type C units built on a Truck Chassis, Kodiak, Freightliner, International. Heavy duty units capable of towing a real trailer (Think Race team, Horses etc.)

Keep in mind, if you are touring, you will need to go to the camp and set up before trying to drive through that quaint old town with your 5th wheel or Bus. you might do it in a B, however there are some other things to consider.

If you are doing more than driving to and from matches and want to see an area you will probably want to setup in a campground. So, you pull in with your rig, and set up, to go look around the area you have essentially three choices, and they all work for some people. One, no vehicle, but the camper (B, C, A, Bus), you pull out your chairs, set up the grille and relax. To go anywhere you essentially have to unplug everything put it away, then reset when you return. Two, as above, but rent a car when you reach your destinations, OK when staying in an area for a period of time, not so good for a few days in multiple locations. Three, tow a car behind you. Four, Trailer as opposed to driven RV. You get where you are going, set up, and you have the disconnected tow vehicle to tour in. As I said, they all work and truthfully they all have their drawbacks.

If you have and expect to continue to have a heavy duty tow vehicle, then this is probably the least expensive method. If however you really have no need or desire to drive a crew cab, HD, Diesel, 10,000 pound GVW truck around every day so you can camp 10 weekends a year, then it can be expensive.

Keep in mind, that regardless of your choices, if you are planning on sightseeing, you probably won’t do it for the most part until you set up at a destination. Driving a truck with a 30 foot RV trailer behind it or a 38 foot bus with your car behind it through a small old town is not going to be easy and in some cases it won’t even be possible, there will be low overpasses and weight limited bridges between you and what you want to see.

Jim

[Joe4d]

10K is a lot of trailer, If you look around at some of the weights of some decent bumper pulls you may find something your current truck can handle, I tow a horse trailer with a F150, INcluding the horse I am about 6000 pounds and dont have anny issues, could dave you alot of money, Do look at the taxes though, Doesnt affect you probably but Horse trailers even ones with complete living quarters in the front are always listed as having a "Changing" room, not living quarters, MAkes a HUGE difference in the propert taxes. a horse trailer with a changing room, even one with beds, stove, refriderator, TV, is an agriculture trailer, and RV is an RV and taxed at much higher rate.

[Seth]

Figuring the weight of the trailer at 1600ish pounds for a wood deck double axle and the car at 5000#, most 1/2 tons WILL get the job done. But there's ZERO margin for error. Brakes are too small, rear axle is too small, engine is too small.

Will it? Sure. Should it? Up for discussion.

[Graham Smith]

Consider if you will use the camper regularly. You probably cannot rent one cheap enough to make it pay on a regular basis. Rent one to see if the wifle likes it , but don't make that your standard procedure. In fact I strongly suggest you try before you buy.

A big +1. I had friends that won the lottery and decided to see America. They bought a big RV and spent a year traveling and absolutely loved it. Based on that experience and others, some other friends decided they wanted to do the same thing and spent over 6 months researching and checking out different RV options. They finally found the perfect (used) RV and bought it.

They set out the following spring but were back in less than two months. They absolutely hated it. It wasn't the RV they hated - they loved it - it was the driving. They were only making about 4 hours of travel a day before they had to stop. They said that they never realized how exhausting it could be, particularly when going through a big city.

[RV man]

I also support trying to rent a couple of different styles of campers before you spend a bunch of money. Several manufacturers have filed bankruptcy during this downturn and dealers are providing aftermarket warranties on those units. Check out the manufacturer on the stock exchange before you purchase anything so you won't be left out in the cold if there is a problem.

Good luck with your search.

Bill

[maineshootah]

Consider if you will use the camper regularly. You probably cannot rent one cheap enough to make it pay on a regular basis. Rent one to see if the wifle likes it , but don't make that your standard procedure. In fact I strongly suggest you try before you buy.

There are many type of RV available.

Trailers are the least expensive, but can also be very costly. They fall into several categories, Soft pop-up, hard pop-up, folding, full trailer type and 5th wheel. All can have a lot of amenities, today even soft pop-ups have AC.

Motorhomes/Campers fall into essentially four types: Class B which are built on a sprinter Chassis or similar, generally comfy for two, small easy to drive and manuever. Can probably still tow a small car. Class C which is built usually on a Ford or Chevy van chasis. Larger, can actually be over 30 feet and can tow a car, limited storage and the cab area isn't really a part of the living area when you are set up as a camp. next comes the "Motorhome" or bus type, these are not neccesarily built on a bus chassis, but have that appearance. They usually have the most amenities. At the top of this line is the Bus Conversion (Prevost, MCI priced new usually over a million and heading towards 2) In between or alongside is a "Super-C" (this is actually a trademark of one company) these are large type C units built on a Truck Chassis, Kodiak, Freightliner, International. Heavy duty units capable of towing a real trailer (Think Race team, Horses etc.)

Keep in mind, if you are touring, you will need to go to the camp and set up before trying to drive through that quaint old town with your 5th wheel or Bus. you might do it in a B, however there are some other things to consider.

If you are doing more than driving to and from matches and want to see an area you will probably want to setup in a campground. So, you pull in with your rig, and set up, to go look around the area you have essentially three choices, and they all work for some people. One, no vehicle, but the camper (B, C, A, Bus), you pull out your chairs, set up the grille and relax. To go anywhere you essentially have to unplug everything put it away, then reset when you return. Two, as above, but rent a car when you reach your destinations, OK when staying in an area for a period of time, not so good for a few days in multiple locations. Three, tow a car behind you. Four, Trailer as opposed to driven RV. You get where you are going, set up, and you have the disconnected tow vehicle to tour in. As I said, they all work and truthfully they all have their drawbacks.

If you have and expect to continue to have a heavy duty tow vehicle, then this is probably the least expensive method. If however you really have no need or desire to drive a crew cab, HD, Diesel, 10,000 pound GVW truck around every day so you can camp 10 weekends a year, then it can be expensive.

Keep in mind, that regardless of your choices, if you are planning on sightseeing, you probably won’t do it for the most part until you set up at a destination. Driving a truck with a 30 foot RV trailer behind it or a 38 foot bus with your car behind it through a small old town is not going to be easy and in some cases it won’t even be possible, there will be low overpasses and weight limited bridges between you and what you want to see.

Jim

Big quote... but worth the +1

Having either a class A or a class C will give you some flexibility in modifying your rig for your activities.

I scuba dive as well as shoot (and combining them both during my time in the South during winter vacation is awesome!) so I have replaced some fixtures, modified storage areas to fit what I wanted. We don't pull anything, rather rent a car when we get to the general area that we will be for the next several days.

If you go with slideouts for a RV, that will limit some of your space that you have available when you are driving. We chose one that didn't have slideouts, as we tend to only stay in one pace for about 3-4 days tops.. before we are off for the next adventure. The slideouts are GREAT for extra space, we just didn't want to spend the $ or deal with the limited space while we were driving.

Overhead restrictions, weight limited roads and tunnels can all be problematic. You have to do some planning on your route to make sure you don't run into such an issue.

My wife drives our class C (27') more often then I do. She is very comfortable with it, as it drives and she sits as if she was driving a pickup truck. What ever you pick, make sure you can get a test drive.. I found some were not comfortable, others rode great.

I think Brian mentioned this... worth doing.. A TON of info on that forum.

" A good place to go and get questions answered by people in the know is www.rv.net/forum. There is a lot of experienced people on that site."

Gas milage in all of them suck. End of story.. don't even think about that.

Edited September 20, 2009 by maineshootah

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you are handy at all you could also buy an old city bus and convert it. There is a magazine about that as well. I have a friend who's son did that and uses bio diesel to run it. He is an off road racer and travels alot with it. The city buses are built to last and the parts are cheaper than the big name brands. I still vote for the Navion though Thanks, Eric

[G-ManBart]

Hello: If you are handy at all you could also buy an old city bus and convert it. There is a magazine about that as well. I have a friend who's son did that and uses bio diesel to run it. He is an off road racer and travels alot with it. The city buses are built to last and the parts are cheaper than the big name brands. I still vote for the Navion though Thanks, Eric

That's a pretty cool idea about the bus, but I don't have that kind of time. The Navion isn't likely big enough....wifey is looking at something with a stacked washer/dryer, queen bed (or bigger)...you get the idea Good thing she makes more money than I do!

[Jim Norman]

Gman,

With regard to the washer-dryer. I wouldn't bother. talk to a lot of RVers. I did and those with the W-D rarely if ever used them. Reasons, Small and slow also unless you are hooked up you won't have the water or grey storage to handle the load. Anywhere you are actually hooked up will have a laundry.

38 feet is a good size, but borders on BIG. We have a 32 and already have had difficulty in many campgrounds finding a site.

Any chance you will be at either the NC Recon next week or at the FB3gun? If so, look me up. glad to show you mine (RV) and answer questions. Been in RV since 1965, although more than a few years away from, but in interim spent 10 plus on boat, similar life style, just a lot more expensive.

Jim