Limited .45 Load

[Nik Habicht]

Since I'm about to take my Glock 21 out to shoot IPSC in Limited Class, does anyone have any favorite major loads?  And since the chamber in Glocks is not fully supported do I need to worry about that with 45 loads?  

[benos]

Nik,

I would hesitate to use the super fast powders like Vit 320 or Clays until someone you trust gives you the thumbs up for those powders.

be

[Jon Merricks]

Brian your comment is that just for Glocks.

[Flexmoney]

Sierra's reloading manual (50th Anniversary Edition) uses the G21 as their test gun.

For accuracy they suggest fast burning powders such as Bullseye or W-W 231

Their listed load for accuracy in 230 FMJ is 4.9grs. of Bullseye.  OAL 1.270.  It produces 850fps for a power factor of 195.5.  This is not the max load (max= 5.2 of Bullseye).

They used Starline brass trimed to .893 and CCI-300 primers.

I don't load for the 45.  I am just reading from the book.  Hope this helps.

[Flexmoney]

BTW-- max load for for 230 FMJ & Vith N320 is 5.5grs.  @ 850fps.  (Sierra manual)

Just reading from the book...

[kellyn]

According to Nelson ford "The Gunsmith:"  "On the 8th day, God said you shall load 5.3 grains of Bullseye w/ a 200 grain SWC."   That load has always worked pretty well for me.

[Flexmoney]

Nik,

I suggest you don't shoot any lead through your Glock barrel.  I never will again.

...not unless it is from LaserCast (Precision Bullets).  Their stuff is supposed to be pretty hard and consistent.

[benos]

Jon,

Yes, that comment was for and applies especially to Glocks - they do not use fully supported barrels.

be

[38supPat]

What about loads using slower Vit. Powders eg. N350, 3N37, just curious as I have used IMR 4756 which is close in burn rate and I have alot of Vit on hand.

Pat

[benos]

Pat,

If you don't mind a little extra "kick," those powders you mentioned should work well (safely) in the Glock.

be

[38supPat]

Yeah I notice the IMR 4756 I tried in my gun was a bit punchy. Wondered how Vit would be. BTW its for a 1911 Springfield single stack, but it doesn't have a supported barrel either so I guess the same rules apply. It's mostly used as a teaching gun, so the extra kick is not a problem.

Pat

[Ross Chevalier]

IMHO, (meaning I could be wrong), I really like Vit N350 running 6.8 - 7.0 grains with a 230FMJ load.  Makes about 179 out of an STI Edge, and about 175 out of my G21.  OAL 1.263 +- .005, light crimp.  YMMV depending upon the inertial pressure of the barrel.  Recoil is smooth, more a push than a snap.  Burns very cleanly.  In a fully supported barrel you can go hotter if you are seeking a "Pat Harrison Signature Fireball".  

[Stacy Parker]

I am using a IDPA load and I have been very happy. 225 tr-cone lead with 4.3 of WST and Win large pistol primers. It clocks out of my Para at 169 PF. Hope this helps.

[DBChaffin]

I also shoot a Glock 21 in limited IPSC competition, and I can only tell you what another more experienced Glock 21 shooter told me and what has worked for me so far.  I shoot Precision's 230 grain LRN black bullet ( http://www.precisionbullets.com ) over 4.2-4.3 grains of Winchester Super Target and with Federal primers.  Makes around 168-170 PF and shoots pretty soft.   Has been very reliable and accurate, and I don't have a problem with leading.  I clean very well every 400-500 rounds or so just to make sure.  Good luck...

[DblTap]

I'm using a West Coast copper plated 200 grain round nose bullet over 5.8 grains of WW231, Fed primers, OAL 1.265". Chronoed it yesterday at 833 fps/167 PF out of my 5" Kimber. This performance was at roughly 90 degrees F so a little more powder will be required in cooler weather.

[Patrick Sweeney]

I wouldn't worry about fast powders in a 1911.  In the book, I tested all the guns with Viht N-310 and Hodgden Titegroup, and the loads worked fine.  The last pin shoot I was at I took my practice loads (didn't have time to load special ammo) which was 230 LRN and 5.2 Bullseye.  It delivers a 208 PF out of my pin gun, which I needed as the pins were set at the front of the tables.

The .45 ACP runs at a low standatd pressure (17K or so) so even if you bump it up to +P levels with some over-enthusiastic loading, you're still in the 21K range.

If you want more power, go to a slower powder, WW-231 or so.

[benos]

Patrick,

Cool, good specific info.

Have you tested 310 in a .40 at 170 pf?

be

[Patrick Sweeney]

Brian,

I'm right in the middle of doing just that, I'll post the results in a few days.  So far it looks very good indeed, but I always check things in the Ransom rest.  You'd be surprised at the differing accuracy levels of loads that seem "good enough" when shooting offhand.

[DBChaffin]

Patrick,  Have you tried going below the starting load slightly with N320?  I want to try some with a 230LRN but the Vit. manual lists only jacketed and the start load makes 797fps.  I only want about 750 and with lead I should get more velocity for the same amount of powder.  I emailed Vit. and they said I could reduce it slightly, but then didn't tell me what "slightly" was.  They said sometimes accuracy suffers if you go "too low" but didn't tell me anything about where that was either.  Thanks for the help.

[Singlestack]

DBChaffin,

I tested some 230 LRN with 320 and found that 4.2gr gave a PF of 172 out of a Springfield 1911 with a Kart barrel. Good accuracy, soft load. I'm now using 225 TFP's with 4.3gr 320 and they are my current favorite. I have load data on everything from a 175 SWC to 230LRN on the 320 if you need more.

[Patrick Sweeney]

The accuracy problem Viht mentioned comes from poor obduration of the base.  When the powder goes off, it whacks the base of the bullet and swages it to fit the bore.  If the load has too low a pressure (or your bullets are too hard, less likely) the base can't obdurate, you don't get a good seal, and you end up with a load that leads and shoots poorly.

Yes, you can lead a bore with "hard" bullets.  The bullet hardness has to match the pressure within rather broad limits, or accuracy suffers.  They want to warn you so you don't complain to them later.  Understandable.

If the bullets are already a tight fit, obduration is less of a concern, but can still effect accuracy.

[Singlestack]

"obdurate"  You made me go dig out the websters......

You also made me think of a load I had a bad leading problem with. I was using Ranger 200gr SWCs over 5gr VN320 at 1.25 oal. The bullets were sized at .451 and this load leaded worse than anything I have ever seen. The Rangers are a "coated" bullet and do not use a lub ring. I called the distributor and he said he never had any complaints before and allowed me a credit on the bullets I bought. I blamed it on the sizing as I thought they should have been .452 and could not believe he had not recieved any complaints. Now I wonder.......

[DBChaffin]

Thanks John and Patrick for the help.  I am glad to hear the accuracy was fine with 320 and lighter loads.  I am shooting a 4.6" barrelled Glock 21 so I will start a little higher than your figures.  Probably 4.3 or 4.4 grains with a 230 LRN and see how the accuracy is.  I feel a lot more comfortable knowing that someone else has had success starting more than a half grain below the start load listed by the manufacturer.  

(Edited by DBChaffin at 12:42 am on Aug. 23, 2001)

[Patrick Sweeney]

The results;

STI 5" bull barrel, 1.190" OAL, West Coast 180 JTC,

4.4 Viht N-310    934 fps  5.7 Sd 12.3 Es  169 PF

4.2 Titegroup     939  fps 11.6 Sd  28.1 Es  169 PF

Oregon Trail 185 lead RN, long for IPSC bullet, loaded 1.195"  oal:

4.0  Viht N-310   945 fps  12.9 Sd  31.5  Es  175 PF

    the Oregon Trail bullet is much more efficient than the others in getting vleocity.  The 4.0 oad is the starting load I used, and it was already at Major.  I'll have to go back and try some softer loads.

Al were nicely accurate, posting two inch or less groups at 25 yards from the Ransom rest.

Both powders had nice even curves, with velocity increasing proportionally to the powder weight change.