New Trigger in the works.. here's the update

[Dwight Springthorpe]

I just finished a class with Max and Travis. One of the items that they suggested was a flat trigger (along with replacing the loose nut behind the trigger). I have average hands, but feel that a shorter trigger would help.

Count me in!

[Handgunnr]

Henning, will these be available for the Match? I would assume they would be a bit different since I believe I read one of your posts somewhere that they don't use the same pin as the other guns?

[jmleenz]

Exciting stuff! Sounds like were about a month out from a near-perfect trigger!

[sinnsyk]

Latest news...

I've now got all the parts except for the pre-travel screw. Just talked to the shop today and they are running them today. This means we should have all components towards mid-end of next week.

btw. the trigger will work for all single action EAA / Tanfoglio models. Know that any Double Action Tanfoglio/EAA also can be converted to single action ! Just get my SA trigger and remove the "interruptor" from the hammer. That's it !

Edited October 29, 2009 by sinnsyk

[Handgunnr]

Henning, do you have pics and pricing of the new trigger yet?

[Dyroe]

Oh yes, please - price and pics

[slavex]

sigh, I'd like one that worked in a DA gun..... and was PD legal too.

[sinnsyk]

First official match testing of the new trigger at the local ipsc match in Boulder yesterday...

Three of us shared my gun using the new flat trigger and everyone was very pleased. Myself and my buddy both have large size hands. His wife has small hands. Fit all of us and several of the local EAA shooters got to check it out. Gun performed without any problems and due to the trigger's precise fit in the gun I feel it helps shooting more precise than before. Originally I would have thought the trigger would be too short for my hands, but during the courses of fire (four stages) I never perceived anything but a good trigger control. Full focus on the sights and all my shots were placed exactly where I called them. In the past I've felt that I've yanked hard shots off and into No-Shoots etc. The Boulder match / stages has a tendency for some tough and tricky shots. Field courses with multiple 15+ yard targets heavily covered with no-shoots. I don't know why they have to make the stages so difficult every time, but they do. A little off on the trigger control and the shot breaks right into those white things.. I watched many shooter new to our sport walk away with extraordinary many penalties. Personally I felt the level of difficulty at this match was beyond what we want to test. I think the trigger made me experience an unusually strong trigger control which was a fantastic feeling.

Weeks prior to the match I had several prototype return springs made. We experimented with a 0.014" and 0.018" music wire coiled spring. 14 was too light and 18 felt too heavy. I had an 0.016" made which worked out perfect with a positive, but not more than necessary weight spring. The lighter the spring, the lighter the trigger pull and I feel we've achieved that goal.

I still don't have the custom pre-travel screw, but expect to have it by end of next week. The screw machine shop I use for making this screw is very meticulous and we've worked carefully to make a tight fitting pre-travel screw that is beyond any standard screw specifications. A typical tight screw is classified as 3A. What we did was to tweak the numbers to fit the actual threaded hole in the trigger. The hole is standard 4-40 threads, but what I don't like about going with conventional off-the-shelf screws is that they have slop which would have resulted in a screw wiggle. Once you get the screw adjusted to where you want it, it should be locked down using loctite or vibra-tite. I am toying with the idea of pre-setting the trigger to where I think it'll be and also have the adjustment screws pre-coated with Vibra-Tite. For Vibra-Tite information go to: Vibra-Tite VC-3

The pre-travel screw can be adjusted roughly 0.080" in length. Yesterday we shot it without a screw so it had a lot of take-up. I'm well used to it and have in the past stayed away from adjusting the factory trigger pre/over travel tight. Due to the sloppy trigger to frame fit of the factory trigger it can cause problems when you adjust the screws too tight. With my new trigger you can go crazy and really have the shortest possible trigger travel. Now it'll be up to how short the reset is and how well all the other parts play along (trigger bar to trigger plunger and sear).

It's also addressed the typical difficulty of re-assembling the trigger back into the frame. With the factory trigger, the spring is held in place with the trigger pin. Many of you have taken the trigger in/out and know what a pain that is. With my new trigger system it's easy to take the trigger out for adjustment / work etc. The new return spring is similar in size as the extractor spring. It is held in by the trigger itself, sitting in a small pocket. Trust me, it's cool.

And instead of the factory trigger pin which eventually will get worn out and start moving out... the system comes with a solid pin which is threaded and a special nut holds it in place.

At the moment, the trigger itself, the pin/screw and nut is being heat treated. They are all made from 416 Stainless Steel. The pre-travel screw is made from 303 Stainless Steel and all parts should come together end of the week.

All spares will also be made available so that if you ever lose a part or need to replace any of the 6 or 7 parts it will be supplied with, you can order them separately. Kit [currently] comes with

a) Trigger

Trigger Return Spring

c) Trigger Pin/Screw

d) Trigger Nut

e) Trigger Pre-Travel Screw (installed)

f) Trigger Over-Travel Screw (installed)

It may also come with a new trigger bar pin if I can find the one I want to use. Otherwise you will need to shorten the factory pin.

The new trigger pin could also be installed on factory triggers if you end up liking that concept better. You would need to ream the factory trigger to fit the pin. If there's an interest in this I will source 0.0995" reamers and make them available. Alright, I'm rambling on nit-picking details here, but for those who are as nerdy as I on this stuff... the new trigger will have a 0.0995" reamed trigger pin hole. The trigger pin itself is about 0.0005" smaller so as you can gather.. the fit is as tight as possible to give you just enough fit to have minimal movement. And it's enough to not create a bind.

I will have a full article as soon as I get everything together. I've refrained from posting pictures until I've got the finished product. I've been really excited about this project for a long time and it's really been a long way coming. A straight trigger has been in conceptual design for well over a year and we started prototype machining back in August. If you could have been a fly on the wall for all the discussions and thoughts my machinist and I have had over this thing you would go nuts and just tell us to finish the damn thing. You will be very pleased with the finished product.

Edited November 1, 2009 by sinnsyk

[shooterbenedetto]

That's great...still make me on SUSPENSE with the picture!!

I'll wait and I'm sure it will be AWESOME..for me, if it doesnt look RACY its a no go.

SB

[CHA-LEE]

I got to check this out on Hennings gun yesterday, all I can say is ............... WOW!!!!

If it wasnt for Henning investing his time and money into making high quality parts for our guns we would be left in the dark ages. Thank you Henning!!!

[Floydian]

How about a teaser pic Sinnsyk, smokey, partial or hazed like the car dealerships release,

just so we can sleep properly :-[

[Mo Hepworth]

picture?

[Bianchi]

Henning,

I am getting slightly envious of the Standard/Open class fraternity now...... What a fine selection of bits and pieces will be available to the guys and gals out there. Any thoughts about what parts could maybe, ever so possibly, accidentally fall into a PD Stock II, besides the regular polishing tricks?

Just to get the list going:

Lighter hammer spring

Alimin(i)um grips

EGW sear (has to work with the standard DA trigger though)

Sear pin and reamer (for the standard sear?)

Lighter trigger reset spring

The new trigger pin (or will this be too obvious?)

Fiber front sight

......?

I might just throw in the towel and convert this fine pistol into a race gun in order to continue tweaking it .

Regards,

Bianchi

[BritinUSA]

I think that with the recent magazine rule changes in IPSC, that Henning's base pads are now legal for IPSC PD division.

[vous]

I think that with the recent magazine rule changes in IPSC, that Henning's base pads are now legal for IPSC PD division.

The new rule takes affect from 01 January 2010 so cannot use Hennings pad's until then. As soon as that day arrives though you are good to go!!!!

For those small frame owners out there that may not know, Henning will be making his H-520/550 for the small frames and they should be available before January.

These will be nice for Production but also nice if you want to shoot Standard division in IPSC with your Production gun as they will fit in the box!!

[sinnsyk]

Would you post the new PD rules ? I don't pay too much attention to them as I'm more into Limited/Standard. We're making more grips and pads at the moment and I will for sure have more pads. For small frame I need to know what the rules are so I can comply. I will for sure have pads that'll fit into PD and as you know they will be a lot better quality than factory.

[sinnsyk]

btw. I'm as of today also looking into making a better sear that will work for DA guns etc. That is the main problem at the moment and it's a good chance I'll have a new sear soon.

[Ramas]

Would you post the new PD rules ?

PD_Revision_01JAN2010.pdf

[sinnsyk]

Thanks

I guess that says it right there and finally looks like some rules that makes sense. 15 rounds will also stop chase the race game in production and level the playing field. Good call in my opinion.

This means that my basepads will join the list of accepted aftermarket parts including contour grips and iFiber front sights. For large frame guns this means H-400, H-520, H-550 and I guess technically even H-141 would be legal. I currently only make the H-141S for small frame, but I have H-550S in the works which would be a great pad for IPSC Production which also fits the IPSC Standard Box Rule.

For those who haven't seen the light on Stock II yet... if you get that gun in 40 S&W you could shoot it in both Production and Limited / Standard division. With the H-550 type mags you can get as much as 19 + 1 for IPSC Standard division and 21 + 1 in USPSA Limited division. Just download to 15 rounds for IPSC Production and 10 rounds for USPSA Production. I've already talked to a few shooters who have ordered this gun as a combo-gun for both division.

[vous]

Thanks

This means that my basepads will join the list of accepted aftermarket parts including contour grips and iFiber front sights. For large frame guns this means H-400, H-520, H-550 and I guess technically even H-141 would be legal. I currently only make the H-141S for small frame, but I have H-550S in the works which would be a great pad for IPSC Production which also fits the IPSC Standard Box Rule.

Your right any of your mag pads, including the H-141S, are now legal in IPSC Production as long as you only load 15 rnds. The nice thing about the 550's in a Production gun will be that extra length for a sure seat of the mag but also fitting in the IPSC box for Standard so you can run the combo-gun as you mention.

Looking forward to getting some when they are ready!!!

[Ramas]

This means that my basepads will join the list of accepted aftermarket parts including contour grips and iFiber front sights. For large frame guns this means H-400, H-520, H-550 and I guess technically even H-141 would be legal. I currently only make the H-141S for small frame, but I have H-550S in the works which would be a great pad for IPSC Production which also fits the IPSC Standard Box Rule.

Well, it seems not so simple as it looked would be.

"QUOTE"

Yes Juan Carlos, today it's not OK, but 1st of Jauary 2010 it is OK in Production division to drill witness holes or whatever holes you need on your mags.."

"REPLY"

Not on OFM mags. Point 19.1 of the PD Rules has not changed. We only changed Point 19.2 and 20.1, which means:

1. You can use longer, OFM optional mags (e.g. G17 mags in a G19, but you're limited to 15 rounds loaded); and/or

2. You can use OFM +2 baseplates; and/or

3. AM mags no longer need to match dimensions of OFM mags -- there's just the same 15 rounds loaded limitation.

It didn't suddenly become open season in PD for Home Hackers. We just relaxed some previous restrictions while introducing the loading limit. The end result is:

4. 90% of the guns on the approved gun list become round-count competitive; and

5. People no longer need to spend $$$ buying AM mags, just so that they can fiddle with them to squeeze in an extra round or two; and

6. Guns typically sold with +2 basepads no longer need to have them replaced with +0 basepads.

DVC,

Vince Pinto,

IPSC Secretary"

[jmleenz]

PICSPICSPICS

[sinnsyk]

It's here !!

Just got the pre-travel screws and I am picking up the trigger, trigger pin and nut from heat treat. I will take pictures this afternoon and make them available tomorrow.

[jmleenz]

SWEET!

[JorDanO]

A new DA sear would be awesome. I don't want to do much to the factory ones since they're so soft. Any chance of coming up with a better hammer and having the factory use it on an approved model so it's legal like Angus and CZ?