sort your brass

[wide45]

A few words on why you should not use "FC" brass in .40, other calibers are fine.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29370

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=25282

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31326

[wide45]

This is why roll sizing is bad;

Push thru sizing can cause the same trouble. Don't reload brass that has been blown out. It's that simple.

[Chills1994]

^^^

[Chills1994]

Chills1994 (that's me) on the first page wrote:

I use just about anything. Life is too short, in my opinion, to sort beforehand. I will usually find the A-MERC headstamped brass as it is going through the reloading press. There seems to be more resistance either sizing it or running it up into the powder/belling die.

I just wanted to add that on the front end of the 550 I am using an EGW/Lee Undersize die and on the back end I am using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. I also went with Eric Wesselman's instructions on how to de-clunk a dillon powder measure. I haven't exactly got the 650 all caught up yet with caliber conversions and shell plates and what NOT, so if you have a 650 and you're trying to use both of those dies...well... YMMV. I will case gage the first 10 rounds off the 550 at the start of a reloading session and check them for OAL again. If everything checks out okay, then I don't case gage the rest. In my opinion, life is to short to case gage all my ammo too. Again, YMMV.

I used to be that anal retentive too, once.

[splashdown]

I toss a few specific headstamps, plus anything roll sized, or otherwise damaged. Federal, and Remington shot from my gun get separated to load for major matches. Everythin else gets loaded for practice, and club matches.

Throw away PMC, FC, AMERC, and any brass thats deformed, or roll sized. Load on the 1050. Shoot it.

Chamber checking .40 is a waste of time.

I mentioned chamber checking, but I meant chamber gauging. That's not a waste of time when I get 2 to 5% that fail to drop into my barrel. Many of those become death jams on the range.

[scribble]

This is why roll sizing is bad;

Push thru sizing can cause the same trouble. Don't reload brass that has been blown out. It's that simple.

Isn't roll sizing what the case pro does?

[wide45]

I mentioned chamber checking, but I meant chamber gauging. That's not a waste of time when I get 2 to 5% that fail to drop into my barrel. Many of those become death jams on the range.

Bad brass, or components?

Bad dies, press, or other tools?

Bad process, or technique?

Why are you loading defective rounds? Why would you keep doing it?

[h2osport]

I sort Nickel and Brass. Nickel is for 40 minor. Brass is for 40 Major. Just another way to tell the loads apart.

Randy

[Chills1994]

scribble wrote:

Isn't roll sizing what the case pro does?

Yeah, I think I was under the same impression as you scribble that the CasePro was the end all be all, that and a bag of chips of a tool for case prep/re-sizing.

Weird.

Me likes the EGW/Lee Undersize die and the Lee FCD for 9 (minor), .40 and .45 . The only hiccups I have along the way are:

1. berdan primed cases, lately just in the 9mm

2. .38 Supers, 9X21's, and 9X23's in with the 9 Parabellums/Lugers

3. any A-MERC brass, most notably in the .45...if I inadvertently make a completed round with a piece of A-MERC brass, it never passes the case gauge.

4. 9mm's with crimped in primer pockets.

5. non toxic brass with the smaller primer pockets.

other than that ^^^ reloading on the 550 goes pretty smooth. Using both of those dies virtually eliminates the need for any case gauging. Period. Dot. End of story.

I never felt the need to get a case pro, besides that I'm cheap.

[scribble]

I know people who run all there brass through a case pro and never get what u were showing. I wonder what the condition of it was before hand.

I use a dillon decap,u die at the primer, then powder, seat and crimp from dillon.

[G-ManBart]

For the most part I only use one headstamp because I get it free...Winchester brass.

I use once-fired for big matches and for practice/local matches I always have a pile of multiple fired cases that I use until the headstamps start getting faint or they split. R,

[RiggerJJ]

Those cases in the photo don't appear to be a problem with roll sizing, they appear to have been blown out or damaged BEFORE roll sizing, which would be caused by poor sorting before processing. the same could happen without roll sizing... If the brass is badly blown or nicked or cracked or otherwise, it needs to be pitched BEFORE reloading.

roll sizing will not "fix" bad or blown out brass, it will however resize good used brass to factory specs, espcially the base of the brass that a normal sizing die on a reloader will not reach.

jj

Edited August 16, 2009 by RiggerJJ

[Chills1994]

I have never seen a case pro in operation, in person...so... I dunno...

No luck on YouTube doing a search for case pro and roll sizing.

I guess that the EGW/Lee Undersize die is not a normal die then.

I put on a reloading demo one time at a church. I first showed the folks how a single stage press works and running stuff through in a batch process. I used an RCBS carbide decapping/resizing die for a straight walled pistol case...I forget which caliber now. Then I showed them the belling step, re-priming with a Lee handheld priming tool, and then seating and crimping the bullet. When I went to case gauge the loaded rounds, NONE of them would pass the case gauge check.

Then I showed them my Dillon 550 which had the EGW/Lee U die in the toolhead. All of the rounds passed the case gauge.

I was kinda bummed because I just made 20 plus rounds on the single stage press that I am going to have to pull the bullets on.

So yeah, riggerJJ, you're right, a normal resizing/decapping die with a radiused mouth isn't going to size down far enough.

[wide45]

Those cases in the photo don't appear to be a problem with roll sizing, they appear to have been blown out or damaged BEFORE roll sizing, which would be caused by poor sorting before processing. the same could happen without roll sizing... If the brass is badly blown or nicked or cracked or otherwise, it needs to be pitched BEFORE reloading.

I agree that the cases were ruined before they went thru the roll sizer.

roll sizing will not "fix" bad or blown out brass, it will however resize good used brass to factory specs, espcially the base of the brass that a normal sizing die on a reloader will not reach.

jj

Normal dies easily resize good brass. When the base is expanded, or blown out, I consider the case be junk. I won't use brass that's been blown out enough to need roll sizing. I won't buy, or load brass that's been roll sized, because you don't know how bad it was abused.

[Chills1994]

^^^ Oh... I think I know what you're saying... some people are using "roll sized brass" as kind of a band aid fix to possibly cover up what could be gazillion times reloaded range brass. Well, I think that's what you're saying anyway.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Chills1994

[RiggerJJ]

Normal dies easily resize good brass. When the base is expanded, or blown out, I consider the case be junk. I won't use brass that's been blown out enough to need roll sizing. I won't buy, or load brass that's been roll sized, because you don't know how bad it was abused.

Normal dies do not resize the base of the brass, or the rim. MOST of the time, it is useable thou. Even fully supported chamber fired brass will be slightly oversized at the base after even one firing. The roll sizer will bring the brass back to factory specs AT THE BASE and up from the base 1/3 of the way in most cases. It sometimes can be the difference between getting 20 or 21 in a mag.

non-supported chamber fired brass CAN be resized to factory spec with a roll sizer. this brass is probably what would most closely fall under the heading of "needing" to be roll sized (espcially if you are loading it for a fully supported chamber), but roll sizing it does in no way damage it. if it comes out of the roll sizer damaged, it was already damaged before it went in.

bottom line is, roll sizing does not damage brass, and you have to sort carefully before loading if you use a roll sizer or not.

jj

[barney88pdc]

Well beinging retentive and not wanting to blow up my new gun I did some research on here when I frist started loading. I sort and keep Winchester, R-P, Federal (Not FC that gets tossed), Speer. Everything else I have been chunking.

Now the concensus seems to be Chunk A-merc, S&B and keep the rest. Some say throw PMC as well? I just bought 4K mixed brass and what was not "good" was mostly CBC, PMC, BLAZER, CCI and Independence. I think I am going to load these once and use them at local matches and just for go the brass gathering at the end of the match untill I am back to my "good stuff". Has anyone had bad experiences with CBC, BLAZER, Independence or CCI?

Edited August 16, 2009 by barney88pdc

[Squishy]

I have been using a Case Pro for over 15 years. Mostly on 40 s&w and 38 super . I have never had a problem with any brass blowing out. I sort out all my brass by headstamp. I only use Winchester, Starline, Remington for matches. Only once fired Winchester for large matches. Never had a problem that was brass related. Ever!!

[BMartens]

Normal dies easily resize good brass. When the base is expanded, or blown out, I consider the case be junk. I won't use brass that's been blown out enough to need roll sizing. I won't buy, or load brass that's been roll sized, because you don't know how bad it was abused.

Any brand name standard resizing die, properly adjusted, will resize decent brass. Anything else is junk. Stock dies do not attempt to size the head of a case, simply because if you need to size the head, you have a serious brass problem, throw it away.

I've not loaded much .40 but, I have not had any problems, even with the Glock bulge. The .45 is the most forgiving. Load them until they won't hold a primer or split. I find 9mm to be about the same.

IMO if once fired brass cannot be reloaded, it should have not been loaded the first time.

[blaster113]

I get my .40 brass for free; Winchester and Federal. For major matches I use new brass or if I'm low on funds; once fired same headstamp. That way if I screw up in a big match, I cant blame the ammo...

[scribble]

I have been using a Case Pro for over 15 years. Mostly on 40 s&w and 38 super . I have never had a problem with any brass blowing out. I sort out all my brass by headstamp. I only use Winchester, Starline, Remington for matches. Only once fired Winchester for large matches. Never had a problem that was brass related. Ever!!

I think some one with a greater knowledge of what a case pro does than my self should put it in this thread so others understand y a case pro is used vs just a standard sizing die.

Edited August 17, 2009 by scribble

[LPatterson]

When I first read about "Glocked" brass I didn't realize it was mainly a 40 problem so I took my 45 shell holder (shooting a Glock 21) to a machine shop and had them mill off .025. I have since done the same thing for my 9mm and 40 shell holders. I deprime everything in a Rockchucker before I sort and only keep the brands recommended on this forum. S&B and a few foreign brands are thrown away, the rest (commercial CCI, Blaser,*I*,etc) are given to friends for practice brass.

[Dennis (CT)]

I sort my 40 brass by headstamp. I load for several 40's (STI's, 610 revolver, EAA Witness, P16, Olympic 40 Upper, etc.). The Witness mag can only handle length's up to 1.135.

I load different brass for each gun. EAA Witness (IDPA gun - Federal & FC Minor loads).

Winchester for my IPSC practice loads, NICKEL for my IPSC Major MATCH Loads.

The 40 upper gets REM cases.

Low quantity counts of other brass *I*, PMC, etc. I use for Monthly local matches.

I label each box of reloaded ammo, but the separate headstamp tells me quickly what the load should be.

Anything that does not pass the case check & not deformed, goes into my 610 for plinking and recovery.

[G-ManBart]

I take out all the Federals and then judge them by how they look regardless of head stamp.

In .40, brass marked "Federal" is fine. Brass marked "FC" is the stuff you want to toss. R,

[G-ManBart]

non-supported chamber fired brass

You do realize that there are almost no guns on the market that have "non-supported" chambers right? It's really an inaccurate name to start with as all chambers are supported, some just moreso than others and even the chambers with the least support tend to cover enough of the case to get back to the web where the brass is much thicker and requires a major ammo mistake to fail.

What most people call non-supported chambers (typically people say this about Glocks) are actually fully supported, but have a larger diameter at the chamber mouth, for reliability purposes, which causes the extra expansion of the case near the extractor groove (i.e. guppy belly). The difference in the amount of support between something like a Glock and a match 1911 barrel is a few thousandths of an inch. I've posted pics illustrating this very slight difference a number of times, but the myth just seems to be one of those things people "know"