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BritinUSA

6 year old IPSC Shooter

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He is right. Developmentally, children that young do not have a firm grasp of the differnce between "fantasy" vs "reality".

+1

At that age he has no idea of the consequences of a mistake, this is an accident waiting to happen.

Airsoft would be far more appropriate for someone of that age if they expressed an interest.

If I was running a match and this kid applied it would be a firm "NO", children of that age should not be doing IPSC.

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There are no age limits in our sport. so we can't refuse a member from participating at a match because we don't like it.

Safety first. I do wonder how he will shoot through ports that are 4 feet high.

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BTW - I noticed that all of the shooters in the posted videos started with gun holster - without a round chambered. Is that a rule in the Philippines?

Not a rule, more like the norm for safety's sake. Chambered starts, unfortunately, are rare.

Yep, loaded starts are very very rare in the PI, they have had lots and lots of ADs on the draw, and because of that they have switched almost all starts to either unloaded, or mag in/empty chamber.

I shot 3 major matches over there last year and I can only remember 2 or 3 loaded gun starts total for all the matches.

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BTW - I noticed that all of the shooters in the posted videos started with gun holster - without a round chambered. Is that a rule in the Philippines?

Not a rule, more like the norm for safety's sake. Chambered starts, unfortunately, are rare.

Yep, loaded starts are very very rare in the PI, they have had lots and lots of ADs on the draw....

Why am I not surprised?

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wow things must have changed a lot over there , ive shot a lot of local and Level 3 matches over there

with loaded starts :mellow:

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Our local Pinoy contingent set up our last club match - I was wondering about all the mag-in/empty-chamber starts. I thought they were just trying something different.

Edited by kevin c

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Not that he's not very young, but the fact that he looks even younger makes it more controversial. He looks barely older than my two year old (who doesn't shoot matches yet!)

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Just because a thing CAN be done that doesn't mean it SHOULD be done.

I wonder if the boy's parents have done any reading about child development. It seems that he is progressing fine in the psychomotor domain but is he developing at the same pace in cognitive and affective areas? If not, then you have a small expert at manipulating tools but maybe someone who is far too underdeveloped to fully understand the consequences and dangers implicit in his actions.

Psychomotor domain (manual and physical skills, ie., skills, or 'do')

Cognitive domain (intellectual capability, ie., knowledge, or 'think')

Affective domain (feelings, emotions and behaviour, ie., attitude, or 'feel')

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I coached juniors and sub-juniors in a very active smallbore group. We would work with youngsters of any age, but they did not seem to "get it" until they were 8 or so. The biggest reason the 6 and 7 year old's did not latch on was attention span. Smallbore requires you to pay attention through getting into position, acquire point of aim, adjust it onto the target, and then get through ten shots slow fire. Something clicked in them around 8 and then they could do it all and be solid in all of their range behaviour. I don't believe I ever came across a 6 year old that was up to the attention and concentration levels of small bore.

Now admittedly, smallbore is single shot rilfes without fire and movement, but it takes being on for 15 minutes too. A younger kid would be more likely to stay "on" for long enough to memorize the stage and run it, but he would have to have good role models and exceptional patience (for a 6 year old) to learn the game to that level... I am suspicious the Miko does have those things, and that is worth a lot. From watching him, I would bet that at least one parent shoots well, and that parent has fully impressed Miko with how he has to behave to continue shooting. I would rather chase him through a stage than some of the adults I have run in practice sessions.

He comes in with a card and a classification, you gotta let him shoot.

Billski

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you'll get your chance to see him in action, I hear he's coming for the Nats and one Area match.

His Dad contacted me about the Ohio Section and the IPSC Nationals matches.

I bumped that up, down and sideways through the chain of command. The consensus is that, as long as he follows the same rules as everybody else...then he is good to go.

We are making sure that our target sticks aren't too high (so shots impact the berm). That shouldn't really be a problem, since we have some regular monthly shooter that are about his size. :lol:

I was very happy to read this!

I think it's a shame what an immense hold anti-gun propaganda has on even self-proclaimed pro-gun folks.

Aside from the obvious, as anyone of any age could, I pray he doesn't have an accident ... such folks would no doubt rally behind such an incident as we've seen similar folks rally behind the likes of Columbine and VA Tech

As others have stated, I'd rather shoot with him than some adults I've been around ... irresponsibility, inattentiveness, and in some cases outright stupidity seems to know no age limit.

Good luck kiddo! :cheers:

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you'll get your chance to see him in action, I hear he's coming for the Nats and one Area match.

His Dad contacted me about the Ohio Section and the IPSC Nationals matches.

I bumped that up, down and sideways through the chain of command. The consensus is that, as long as he follows the same rules as everybody else...then he is good to go.

We are making sure that our target sticks aren't too high (so shots impact the berm). That shouldn't really be a problem, since we have some regular monthly shooter that are about his size. :lol:

I was very happy to read this!

I think it's a shame what an immense hold anti-gun propaganda has on even self-proclaimed pro-gun folks.

Aside from the obvious, as anyone of any age could, I pray he doesn't have an accident ... such folks would no doubt rally behind such an incident as we've seen similar folks rally behind the likes of Columbine and VA Tech

As others have stated, I'd rather shoot with him than some adults I've been around ... irresponsibility, inattentiveness, and in some cases outright stupidity seems to know no age limit.

Good luck kiddo! :cheers:

:sick: oh please......

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Yep, loaded starts are very very rare in the PI, they have had lots and lots of ADs on the draw, and because of that they have switched almost all starts to either unloaded, or mag in/empty chamber.

I shot 3 major matches over there last year and I can only remember 2 or 3 loaded gun starts total for all the matches.

I recently returned from one major match overthere on which i worked as area CRO.

There was only 1 empty chamber start on my area and.

Miko shot that match too btw.

Greetings

Adrie

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for level 1 matches, most are empty chamber starts. Since level 1 matches do not require a PPSA membership.

For level 2 and more particularly on level 3 matches, there are a lot of condition 1 starts. The reason being that only PPSA members are allowed to shoot. And these members are mostly if not all, veterans of the sport who I pressume to be saftey conscious.

Well thats what i think.

I met the Miko and it was fun to watch but I wont let my 8 year old kid play ipsc. It will only take 1 mistake in our sport. With all the activies like running, reloading, mag changes, swingers, steel targets, etc etc, something may go wrong.

Though its fine for me if he starts on the precision game where there is only a few things to do and no running with a loaded SA pistol or anything complicated.

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put some grips on that gun. they will help protect his little hands if it blows up.

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I was very happy to read this!

I think it's a shame what an immense hold anti-gun propaganda has on even self-proclaimed pro-gun folks.

Aside from the obvious, as anyone of any age could, I pray he doesn't have an accident ... such folks would no doubt rally behind such an incident as we've seen similar folks rally behind the likes of Columbine and VA Tech

As others have stated, I'd rather shoot with him than some adults I've been around ... irresponsibility, inattentiveness, and in some cases outright stupidity seems to know no age limit.

Good luck kiddo!

My thoughts exactly Sigosaur-

Edited by RufDog

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Just because a young kid appears to be able to do something does not mean they are mature enough to be handle things if something goes wrong. I think the real model for this would be NASCAR. Even they, will not allow drivers that are too young to compete just because they can reach the controls and make it around the course without hitting a wall. I have four kids, all in their 20's now, that I taught to shoot and they all love pistols in particular, but they progressed up from bb guns, to single shots, to .22's, to centerfire at ages where they were more responsible. He is not even old enough to buy bb's legally in most states!

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I just wonder what insurance companies would think (here in the states at least) about a 6 year old kid running around with a real gun? Under supervision, very mature and safe kid aside, it's a horrible idea. Rules may not specify a minimum age, but common sence needs to prevail.

6 year old shows up to shoot IPSC where I do, one of us is not going to shoot the match...I wouldn't want to be on the lawyers list of participants when the kid shoots himself or someone else.

Just MHO.

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Someone else posted in another thread that KC was 8 when he made Master. I never realized he was that young.

Flyin

Edited by Flyin40

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He's safer than some adults I've seen. I refuse to go to a certain shooting competition because of the horrific unsafe gun handling by quite a few of the participants.

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I just wonder what insurance companies would think (here in the states at least) about a 6 year old kid running around with a real gun? Under supervision, very mature and safe kid aside, it's a horrible idea. Rules may not specify a minimum age, but common sence needs to prevail.

I think that is a straw man argument. What would an insurance company think of a certain shooting competition that a certain manufacture runs where the safety rules are routinely ignored and not enforced, and have been brought to the attention of the manufacture numerous times?

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Evaluate on a case by case basis.

Since I have a feeling that the parents know their child far better than anyone commenting on this thread, they likely have full confidence of his ability to remain safe and coherent during an IPSC match.

I'd rather shoot with that kid than a great many adults I've met.

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I'll give my two cents given I'm one of those BAD parents. My boy, John, started coming to the range at 4 years old. He picked brass and pasted targets for about 1.5 years. Obviously, his understanding and attention to his surroundings were the utmost importance to me and for his safety on the range during his younger years.

From the very first days on the range, I treated him like an adult. He was told that if he could not act like a grown up on the range, he was done, no questions asked. With a child on the range, there is absolutely no room for error. Don't get me wrong, he is a normal kid. But, he grows up on the range in a way you wouldn't understand until you see it for yourself.

Anyway, at age 5.5 he started with a .22lr pistol. He shot IDPA with me for about a year working through gun handling and safety. His time spent on the range at an early age made things much easier. Kids are like sponges and he knew what to do and better yet, where his muzzle was at all times.

I, of course, was torn between letting him shoot and waiting to get him started. But, given his skill set and attention to the safety aspects, he was off and running. I, of all people, know the risk if anything were to happen. He has been watched like a hawk, by me and no one else.

At age 7, he started shooting a G19. His hands finally got big enough to run the gun safely. My earliest concern was a dropped gun.

At age 8.5, he stared shooting 3gun/multigun with me. He runs a 12ga youth pump, 9mm AR rifle, and the G19. He will start competing this year with a .223. His skill set is impressive to say the least, however, I'm biased for sure.

He is 10.5 now and is getting taller and stronger. Biggest challenge outside of actual shooting is size/strength.

He won the MI State IDPA championship youth award last year. He beat a 14 year old by almost 100 seconds.

Many of his friends, his age, are not capable of shooting at this level. It is how you've been trained and the individual's character.

I know many out there don't agree to start kids at such a young age. I can honestly say, I was one of them. But, his actions and skills justified the RISK. I do not, EVER, take for granted his skills and will always, HAWK, over him on the range, at least until he starts beating me, of course.

I treat him like an adult on the range and a kid anywhere else. And yes, he's a kid just the same.

He has a love of shooting like I do. We'll see where that takes him. I'm definitely not going to push him, if he wants to shoot, shoot.

My link

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Generations ago children were shooting from very early ages. I would bet that they were safer than some of the idiots I see on the public ranges.

Fact is this young man comes from a gun family that has been shooting for at least 3 genereations. He has been taught saftey and demonstrates it enough to satisfy the ROs and MDs at matches. Compare that to many new shooters I encounter at the range who are learning about guns from buddies, themselves or uncle hollywood.

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Movement and staying safe would be my concerns. And a child shooting at targets set at a realistic height would be shooting upwards for many shots in a match, not to mention a port above the 3' level. I can't imagine designing an entire match around the abilities of a 6 y.o. Carrying a dummy start? Shot a match last year where the start was standing on a set of steps holding a heavy duffel bag that had to be put on a table?? Weak hand??

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When my youngest started at 9 1/2 years I did not let him shoot one handed. He just incurred the procedurals for the courses of fire that required it. After about a year he had demonstrated his ability to me that he could shoot one handed well enough during practice sessions to let him do that during the matches.

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