Best Production Autopistol?

[Action Pistolero]

Chuck,

Does Aristocrat make a regular rear sight like a Bomar? I think not. They are lumping them together so that means that they are outlawing the 3 position sight whether it's a rib or not.

If you want I can give you the name of the guy that had a whole lot to do with the way it was worded. You can ask him if you don't want to believe me.

I believe there were 40 some new shooters last year at the Cup. Most of them were shooting Prod. There is no point to shoot Prod as part of the Open/ Metallic Aggregate because you are only hurting yourself. You have to claim which gun is your primary one and you can only win awards in your primary gun category.

Griz,

I believe you know me well enough to know I'm not going to steer you the wrong way. My gun passed the gun checks last year being a DA only.

[Action Pistolero]

This is another pet peeve of mine... Where are the rulings posted? If you are not on a first name basis with Tom or one of the top shooters, I don't think you have access to "insider" info and rule clarifications and could be in for surprises when you get to the Cup and discover that they don't follow the published rules in Columbia.

Just to let you all know, the proper procedure for getting a ruling on a gun mod or questionable shooting technique is to write Tom a letter and he will forward it on to the Ref. Anyone can do this.

[NRAActionPistol]

This is another pet peeve of mine... Where are the rulings posted? If you are not on a first name basis with Tom or one of the top shooters, I don't think you have access to "insider" info and rule clarifications and could be in for surprises when you get to the Cup and discover that they don't follow the published rules in Columbia.

Just to let you all know, the proper procedure for getting a ruling on a gun mod or questionable shooting technique is to write Tom a letter and he will forward it on to the Ref. Anyone can do this.

Thanks Kevin...Merry Christmas

I think from now on we should suggest anyone contact the NRA Pistol Coordinator...we would hate to upset anyone on here, especially someone that does not support NRA AP.

TOM...

Edited December 24, 2009 by NRAActionPistol

[Action Pistolero]

Merry Christmas, Tom.

Well said. Now go to bed. You have a long drive tomorrow.

[Chuck Anderson]

Chuck,

Does Aristocrat make a regular rear sight like a Bomar? I think not. They are lumping them together so that means that they are outlawing the 3 position sight whether it's a rib or not.

Then say that. By saying no Bo-Mar sights, with not wording about ribs, or three position, how can you read it any other way. Now, take away your extensive AP knowledge, and look at the rule as a new shooter. Would you think a regular Bo-Mar is legal? Why? It clearly says they are not. I honestly can't figure out how you can think otherwise.

[gm iprod]

Great post, Richard. You are one of the few who could line up all the Prod type guns on the counter and weigh all the triggers. Also, have all the knowledge to rat off the guns that could be used.

That is pretty much what I did, plus a few from home. The boss was a little confused when he found a note book, two trigger scales and 15 handguns laying across the floor of the office.

[goneracin]

This is another pet peeve of mine... Where are the rulings posted? If you are not on a first name basis with Tom or one of the top shooters, I don't think you have access to "insider" info and rule clarifications and could be in for surprises when you get to the Cup and discover that they don't follow the published rules in Columbia.

Just to let you all know, the proper procedure for getting a ruling on a gun mod or questionable shooting technique is to write Tom a letter and he will forward it on to the Ref. Anyone can do this.

Thanks Kevin...Merry Christmas

I think from now on we should suggest anyone contact the NRA Pistol Coordinator...we would hate to upset anyone on here, especially someone that does not support NRA AP.

TOM...

the guy you quoted (Griz) is a VERY active ap shooter.

Im going to apologize in advance for how this is going to come out, but it seems to me you dont want to hear anything other than "ooooohhhhhhhhh this is perfect"

as evidenced by the long list of ideas and topics, its far from it. People are trying to HELP here. Instead of getting upset, or insulting, maybe try to listen to suggestions.

[Griz]

Griz,

I believe you know me well enough to know I'm not going to steer you the wrong way. My gun passed the gun checks last year being a DA only.

You misunderstood me. You are one of the top shooters I was talking about! I get tons of info and mentoring from you (and Alan) that is extremely valuable to me. What I am talking about is that I have access to info that is not available to shooters who are not on a first name basis with Tom or someone like you. That info that clarifies the rules needs to be available to *all* shooters.

The only reason that I even care is that the local VA AP circuit (Bluefield, Hinton, Bedford) is the best thing that has ever happened to me in shooting sports and I do everything I can to support it.

[Griz]

I think from now on we should suggest anyone contact the NRA Pistol Coordinator...we would hate to upset anyone on here, especially someone that does not support NRA AP.

TOM...

Here's how little I support NRA AP: Put me on the board and rules committee. I'd rather raise hell in person at the root of the problems than on the internet

[Action Pistolero]

Here's how little I support NRA AP: Put me on the board and rules committee. I'd rather raise hell in person at the root of the problems than on the internet

Griz,

To get on the board you will have to run for election. You are too late for 2010 as the elections are in April. You have to submit a petition with atleast 1500 names by August of the previous year.

To get on the A/P committee, you have to send a letter to the A/P committee chairman (Dwight Van Horn) and request being added to the committee. Tom will suggest people to be put on the committee but Dwight is the one that does it. Good luck.

Edited December 25, 2009 by Action Pistolero

[itchy]

Chuck,

Does Aristocrat make a regular rear sight like a Bomar? I think not. They are lumping them together so that means that they are outlawing the 3 position sight whether it's a rib or not.

Then say that. By saying no Bo-Mar sights, with not wording about ribs, or three position, how can you read it any other way. Now, take away your extensive AP knowledge, and look at the rule as a new shooter. Would you think a regular Bo-Mar is legal? Why? It clearly says they are not. I honestly can't figure out how you can think otherwise.

If the spirit of this rule is to exclude the use of a "tri set" sight or a ribbed sight, but not a plain adjustable Bomar/Champion sight, can I replace the rear adjustable sight on my S&W revolver with an LPA sight? The LPA is neither ribbed, nor does it have the capability of functioning as a "tri set". It's just a beefier, click adjustable rear sight.

Seiichi

[motorcycle_dan]

trigger scales and 15 handguns laying across the floor

Looking at the rules it seems to me that people shooting a "production revolver" have the biggest room to game the production class rules. Remove the SA notch and then let the custom gunsmith modify the DA to a butter smooth 4lb trigger. I'm curious if you measured a selection of stock revolvers in DA mode.

Curious how others would word production revolver rules to prevent ultra modified internal custom work.

[gm iprod]

What if you removed the SA notch on a SA / DA auto?

Same thing?

Remember it must be safe first of all. Yes the revolver has the most to gain compared to otehr handguns. But it has compensating disadvantages. So it is likely to balance itself out some.

Make the DA too light and you will have issues that will kill you at the match.

I think that if you try to game it too much you are likely to beat yourself. I would stick to close to the middle of what you are likely to try and do. Keep it simple, keep it reliable.

Sights again: LPA and Bomar BMSC (and anything that is based on that design) would most likely be in, what they are trying to eliminate is the Bullseye type target sights, with huge rear blades and front sights that look like they belong at the Olympics. The Para LDA has a LPA (looks like a Bomar to me) sight. It is stock out of the box.

A picture to Tom would solve the issue before you drive 8 hours to Columbia, plus the 3 months hard practice.

Edited December 26, 2009 by gm iprod

[Action Pistolero]

If the spirit of this rule is to exclude the use of a "tri set" sight or a ribbed sight, but not a plain adjustable Bomar/Champion sight, can I replace the rear adjustable sight on my S&W revolver with an LPA sight? The LPA is neither ribbed, nor does it have the capability of functioning as a "tri set". It's just a beefier, click adjustable rear sight.

Seiichi

Seiichi,

The main thing is that the sight must fit into the existing sight cuts. I replaced my S&W rear sight with a Hamilton Bowen sight. It's beefier and has a wide blade.

If you removed the SA notch in a DA/SA wouldn't the hammer follow thus making the gun a machine pistol?

Edited December 26, 2009 by Action Pistolero

[gm iprod]

If you removed the SA notch in a DA/SA wouldn't the hammer follow thus making the gun a machine pistol?

Good point Batman. Never thought of that. Just looking at making it DAO. Might be easier to just buy a LDA. yeah right.

Back to the Bourbon and Ice.

Edited December 26, 2009 by gm iprod

[Toolguy]

I have never seen a 4 lb. DA revolver. A really good one runs about 6 lb. , most tuned ones are around 8. Add to that a 3/8 long trigger

pull and even a well tuned Revo takes more trigger management than a 4 or 5 pound auto. For those who think a tuned revolver is such

a big advantage - why are you shooting an auto?

[kimmbeckwith]

Warren, I completely agree!!! That is the main reason I swithched from revolver to auto is the 3 & 3 left handed on the practical. It was less prone to a jerk and was more managable. But, I do think the revolver has supurb accuracy versus the Auto in production. But, I was a lot more prone to a jerk! HAHA.

[oldtrooper]

You are dead on about the revolver Warren. It is much more difficult to master than the auto. Kim knows revolvers and I understand what he is saying. I am an old time PPC shooter and the revolver is much easier to manage in that discipline with the much less pressing time limits. Making it DAO only makes it more difficult to master with with really quick time limits. Try to complete the 3&3 weak handed in 8 seconds let alone the 3&3 at 25 yards in 7 seconds with the revolver. Then consider doing the same while cocking the hammer on a revolver for each shot.

[motorcycle_dan]

complete the 3&3 weak handed in 8 seconds let alone the 3&3 at 25 yards in 7 seconds

Okay, explain to the newbie, what portion of the Bianchi Cup must be fired with the weak hand? I'm very familiar with DA shooting with this revolver strong hand only. I make distinguished revolver (badge #59) this year. I shot all the timed and rapid fire double action. I have not practiced any single hand weak hand. I will need to do that. What portions of the Bianchi Cup are shot weak hand only?

[goneracin]

complete the 3&3 weak handed in 8 seconds let alone the 3&3 at 25 yards in 7 seconds

Okay, explain to the newbie, what portion of the Bianchi Cup must be fired with the weak hand? I'm very familiar with DA shooting with this revolver strong hand only. I make distinguished revolver (badge #59) this year. I shot all the timed and rapid fire double action. I have not practiced any single hand weak hand. I will need to do that. What portions of the Bianchi Cup are shot weak hand only?

from teh 10 yard line in the practical

3 shots on each target, weak hand only, in 8 seconds.

[Alan550]

Practical Event:

10-Yard Stage:

At the signal to commence fire, competitor fires one round at each target within 3 seconds. At the second signal to commence fire, competitor fires 2 rounds at each target within 4 seconds. At the third signal to commence fire, competitor fires 3 rounds at each target with weak hand only within 8 seconds. Competitor may use the strong hand to produce and exchange the handgun for this third segment, but all 6 rounds must be fired with the weak hand without support for the hand or arm of any kind.

Alan~^~

[itchy]

Are S&W Performance Center firearms prohibited by the "custom shop" rule? (for production)?

I thought I read here that there were not legal for production, but I just want to double check.

Seiichi

[Action Pistolero]

Correct. You cannot use a PC gun in Prod.

[motorcycle_dan]

Another "my Glock sucks" post.

Visiting my folks in IL for new years. I take them out for a day at the range (Belleville indoor) I finally managed to get grouping my new G34. At 25yd quick group is about 3" But way left. I borrow a screwdriver and push real hard to make sure the screwdriver engages the slot. And the whole sight moves in the dove tail.

Not having proper tools with me at the range (Proper Glock tools Two rocks and a stick) I just decide to push it back into more or less center. Much better but it still drifts a small amount with each shot.

What is the best method to get the rear sight to stop moving in the dove tail?

[oldtrooper]

If you can get the sight all the way out try some light stippling in the bottom of the dovetail. Before replacing the rear sight ( you should center the sight in the dovetail ) add some red loctite and let it set overnight.