Good distance to zero rifle?

[Jesse Tischauser]

Jesse - Perfect way to do it. Doesn't hurt either to chrono your loads, develop a range card and then confirm the dope on hard distances. Yeah we're shooting "sniper" matches in 3-Gun, but having that knowledge = confidence and confidence = speed.

Rich

+1

I use a starting zero of 200 yds and a ballistic calculator called "Bullet Flight" (in my Itouch/Iphone) to calculate a better zero and dial it in by stage. It works incredibly well. For instance if a stage has 3 rifle targets of 275yds and 1 at 400 I will dial in a 300 yd zero, check my hold over/unders and shoot the stage by that info. What this does is allow me to hold under very slightly on the close targets and about 10" over on the far, as opposed to several feet on the far target. Much eisier to judge a 10" holdover on a 10" target then 36". Of course a surging gust of wind in the 14-20mph range adds another element i have yet to master.

Thread Drift...I never thought to look for an iPhone app for ballistics calculation. Brilliant! Now if I could only get my phone to clean the rifle too.

Have you tried any of the other iPhone apps for Balistics?

[Bryan 45]

Great! The equipment race is extending even to our cell phones now!!! I feel like I have no chance at Benning now, because I have an old Nextel!!!

Edited August 14, 2009 by Bryan 45

[kellyn]

With an optic, my general purpose zero is 200 meters. But I also run a 300 meter zero on some stages. That is with a circle dot or duplex reticle. If a reticle has a BDC I just follow the instructions.

With irons I generally run a 250 yard zero - but this hurt me at the ERC, maybe those guys (Robbie, Trapr, and Kurt) have something figured out.

[00bullitt]

200 yd.

At 100 you'll be about 2" high and at 300 you'll be about 8" low.

From 25 to 200 put you crosshair on the target and you'll hit. At 300, take a 12 0'clock hold and you'll hit.

It's an easy zero to shoot fast.

Erik

Yep......when I first got into 3 gun......this is the zero I was taught by this very same fellow. It has worked great so far on a variety of scopes. I will usually dial dope for targets over 300. Luckily for me my 55's impact dead on at 100 and I will use them out to 300 in very mild wind. My 69's are dead on at 200 with the exact same zero. It just couldn't work out any better for me.

[Merlin Orr]

Jesse - Perfect way to do it. Doesn't hurt either to chrono your loads, develop a range card and then confirm the dope on hard distances. Yeah we're shooting "sniper" matches in 3-Gun, but having that knowledge = confidence and confidence = speed.

Rich

+1

I use a starting zero of 200 yds and a ballistic calculator called "Bullet Flight" (in my Itouch/Iphone) to calculate a better zero and dial it in by stage. It works incredibly well. For instance if a stage has 3 rifle targets of 275yds and 1 at 400 I will dial in a 300 yd zero, check my hold over/unders and shoot the stage by that info. What this does is allow me to hold under very slightly on the close targets and about 10" over on the far, as opposed to several feet on the far target. Much eisier to judge a 10" holdover on a 10" target then 36". Of course a surging gust of wind in the 14-20mph range adds another element i have yet to master.

Thread Drift...I never thought to look for an iPhone app for ballistics calculation. Brilliant! Now if I could only get my phone to clean the rifle too.

Have you tried any of the other iPhone apps for Balistics?

Try Ballistic v1.8.4 - seems pretty good so far...

[sshog8541]

100 yards

Good To Go. +1

[isto]

I shoot Irons. That means no holdover for long distance. The second thing that affects my zeroing parctices is the common ranges we have here in Finland: 150m and 300m. My basic zero is for 150m. I usually hit 8cm (roughly 3 inches) above the point of aim @150m. This helps in shooting plates as I can aim so that I see almost the full plate on top of my post. I check the zero always by shooting at 100m and 50m too.

I normally use different ammo for 250-300m distances. For that I zero the rifle at 300m. Again a little high POI as I tend to shoot low at paper targets otherwise and for the steel. I check the POI at shorter distances as well. And I check the 300m zero with the short range ammo too, just in case.

So I keep two rear sight settings in my zero sheet. Before a stage I dial in what is needed. I have never dialed mid-stage, but that can happen. So far I have not trusted myself to do it right under the time pressure.

I do of course calculate the bullet trajectories for the 0-350m ranges for both ammo. But my experience tells you are allways better off if you actually check the zero by shooting. Seeing the hits is a lot more reassuring than believing the number on the cheat sheet. At ERC2009 on the longest distance stage I was shooting low because of this. I had not checked the zero by shooting on any distance between 150 and 300m before the match. I did a mental error in calculating the point where I should aim and was shooting low. I would have done better without thinking and just running with the 300m setting and aiming normally.

Bottom Line:

Always check your zero on multiple distances and _never_ trust shorter distance zero for longer range shooting. The risk of failure is too big. Go and check the POI by shooting. It is good practice while you are at it.

isto

[JohnGaultsGun]

For me it depends on the match:

200 yards:

If the max distance is under 300 yards, then I set dope at 200 yards. Depending on velocity, POA = POI out to 200 yards. Then at 300 yards, I place the reticle at the top of a 10" plate.

350 yards:

If the distance is out to 400, then I set dope at 350. Again, I put the reticle at the top of a 10" plate to hit the 400 yard target. However, I know all of my hold over/unders at 50 yard increments from muzzle to 400 yards.

I dont do much shooting past 450 yards out here on the LEFT coast ;-)

[bigbrowndog]

I will have to agree with Isto, for Iron sight use I prefer to have the bullet impact slightly above the actual "zero" distance, so my 300yd zero is actually closer to 325yds, however I have been using the OLD A1 apertures lately and like the ability to have a 250yd and 350yd zero with just the flip of the aperture, this allows me to do what Isto was saying except that its quicker and can be done midstage. the 250yd zero works great for 95% of all the shots you are likely to see, and the 350 takes care of the the rest, unless you need to click up a few moa for 400ish shots, or BONUS targets at 500 or 600.

Anyone that zeros at 50 or so, with the expectation that it automatically will produce a proper zero at long range without actually firing rounds and checking is asking for disappointment in a match.

Trapr

[isto]

JohnGaultsGun,

Good point. I try check the zero before a match to the known shooting distances, if the info is available. That way I will have no suprises in the match, except maybe the wind...

/isto

[Big Bore]

I will have to agree with Isto, for Iron sight use I prefer to have the bullet impact slightly above the actual "zero" distance, so my 300yd zero is actually closer to 325yds, however I have been using the OLD A1 apertures lately and like the ability to have a 250yd and 350yd zero with just the flip of the aperture, this allows me to do what Isto was saying except that its quicker and can be done midstage. the 250yd zero works great for 95% of all the shots you are likely to see, and the 350 takes care of the the rest, unless you need to click up a few moa for 400ish shots, or BONUS targets at 500 or 600.

Anyone that zeros at 50 or so, with the expectation that it automatically will produce a proper zero at long range without actually firing rounds and checking is asking for disappointment in a match.

Trapr

I use a similar method. I zero my rifle so my hold is at the bottom of a 300 yard target and the hits are centered on the plate. This lets me hold up into the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of the plate at 350 and upper 3/4 of the plate at 400. Anything over 400 I dial the rear sight up. I just have remember to dial it back down before the next stage.

Scott

[Jim Norman]

I have been thinking about Zeros and the like. I'd like to make a comment on a few things I have observed and sort of learned.

One. If you zero at 50 or 100, and simply expect to hit at 200-400 you need to, make that MUST verify that your 'zero is the first cross over, not the top of the arc! If you zero at 50 and this is not the first crossover but rather the top of the arc, you will be seriously low at distance.

Two, after you zero your rifle off the bench and find yourself shooting really nice groups and hitting everything, stand up, kneel. sit, rollover and crouch and try it all again. How you are holding your rifle relative to your eye can make a big difference.

When I dabbled in High-Power, we were told that moving from offhand to sitting required a sight adjustment of a couple clicks, if i remember it was something like two left and two down. I need to check my notes on that, but the salient point is that different postilions can and do affect your POI. Biggest thing to remember is get up off the bench and shot like a match to verify.

We all see this in the 5 shot a year hunters. they come out to the range, put their rifle on sand bags, fire 5 shots to verify their group and then wonder why they miss an easy shot at game at 100 yards when they try to shoot off hand.

Jim

[kellyn]

I shoot Irons. That means no holdover for long distance. The second thing that affects my zeroing parctices is the common ranges we have here in Finland: 150m and 300m. My basic zero is for 150m. I usually hit 8cm (roughly 3 inches) above the point of aim @150m. This helps in shooting plates as I can aim so that I see almost the full plate on top of my post. I check the zero always by shooting at 100m and 50m too.

I normally use different ammo for 250-300m distances. For that I zero the rifle at 300m. Again a little high POI as I tend to shoot low at paper targets otherwise and for the steel. I check the POI at shorter distances as well. And I check the 300m zero with the short range ammo too, just in case.

So I keep two rear sight settings in my zero sheet. Before a stage I dial in what is needed. I have never dialed mid-stage, but that can happen. So far I have not trusted myself to do it right under the time pressure.

I do of course calculate the bullet trajectories for the 0-350m ranges for both ammo. But my experience tells you are allways better off if you actually check the zero by shooting. Seeing the hits is a lot more reassuring than believing the number on the cheat sheet. At ERC2009 on the longest distance stage I was shooting low because of this. I had not checked the zero by shooting on any distance between 150 and 300m before the match. I did a mental error in calculating the point where I should aim and was shooting low. I would have done better without thinking and just running with the 300m setting and aiming normally.

Bottom Line:

Always check your zero on multiple distances and _never_ trust shorter distance zero for longer range shooting. The risk of failure is too big. Go and check the POI by shooting. It is good practice while you are at it.

isto

No wonder why you won the ERC!!!!!!!

[isto]

Hi Kelly,

I got lucky.

/isto

[kurtm]

Isto, I am pretty sure that a good sight picture and trigger press caused almost all your "luck"! It was nice to see that all the top iron shooters where at the ERC and we all finished within 20-30 points of each other, with no one running away with the show...it sure kept it interesting! Good Job Isto.

As for the zero thing I run a 300 yard zero and I do hold over, just another veiw piont. KurtM

[mike.45]

OK now I get it that zeroing a rifle is a good thing ...

How important is actually using ammo that is the same caliber as the gun ??

[Dan Sierpina]

How important is actually using ammo that is the same caliber as the gun ??

To clarify things, do you mean same caliber, as in bullet diameter, or same cartridge? I once saw a photo of a 168 Sierra Match King that was loaded in a .300 Whisper, but fired in a .223 Remington. The darn bullet reduced to .224 diameter, but was realllly long. I don't think it stabilized out of the 7" twist barrel. It may have been in Precision Shooting close to 10 years ago.

[bigbrowndog]

Mike, if you don't zero your rifle or change your zero right before the match, it really doesn't matter.

Dan, he's talking about 222's in 223's which he has a knack of doing

Mike its like the ammo i loaded for Jeff at DPMS, I specifically told him that all of the brass was good, all the bullets were 150gr, and most of the rounds had powder. So if there was a problem its not like I didn't tell him.

Trapr

[mike.45]

You told Jeffy and therefore your responsibility was carried out....

I was told to chamber check my ammo, so I chamber checked it on Stage 2 at Benning last year....

Its surprising how much trouble .001 of an inch can cause .....

[benelli2]

zero for 267 yds, and hold right for the hurricane, Mike doesn't matter what you do the guys change your dope every night

when and where are you coming in?

Edited August 28, 2009 by benelli2

[Craigar45]

Back on topic-

I have always shot a 200 yard zero on my mouse guns, but I am about to undertake a match with the big boys: heavy metal. Any change in zero for a .308? How do the basic .223 holdovers compare with .308? Not enough difference to matter under 200 I suspect, but what about out to 500? Thanks!

C

[bigbrowndog]

I zero my 308's for 300ish, and click up for distances beyond 350ish, everything under 300 is just held low for.

trapr

[Sterling White]

Recently I've been experimenting by changing my zero's for each stage. If the farthest target is at 100yds then the scope is set for that distance; if the distant targets are at 400 then the scope is set for that distance. In conjunction with this technique I use the "bullet flight"calculator for the ipod touch which makes it easy to understand the bullet trajectory for targets at shorter distances when the zero is set out this far. Mark introduced me to the program at the rm3g and its pretty cool.

This is different from prior techniques - most that have been mentioned above.

[Alaskapopo]

What is a good distance to zero at for the rifle portion of the match? Thanks,

-mike-

50 yards. (Improved battle sight 0)

50 yards put you on at about 200 yards give or take depending on your load. 100 yard 0 has you shooting low everywhere but at 100 yards. The 25 yard 0 has you on at 25 and 300 but has you really high (4-6 inches) at 100 yards.

Pat

[Jesse Tischauser]

What is a good distance to zero at for the rifle portion of the match? Thanks,

-mike-

50 yards. (Improved battle sight 0)

50 yards put you on at about 200 yards give or take depending on your load. 100 yard 0 has you shooting low everywhere but at 100 yards. The 25 yard 0 has you on at 25 and 300 but has you really high (4-6 inches) at 100 yards.

Pat

I am kind of leaning towards the 300 yards zero. My reasoning is that you can hold at the bottom of an 8-10" plate at 100 & 200 rather than holding over several inches on a 300 yard plate with a 50/200 yard zero. I think it is easier to aim at the bottom edge of something (i.e. 8" plate) rather than aim several inches high at an arbitrary spot above the plate and let it drop in. I gets even worse when you have to take a cross wind into account.

With crosswinds and the 25/300 yard zero shooting 100-200 yards you can keep your horizontal crosshair on the bottom edge of the plate for vertical reference and move vertical cross hair left/right depending onthe wind direction.

On the 50/200 yard zero shooting 300 yards you have absolutely no reference point to aim at or align with.

The only problem I am having is actually zeroing at 300. Shooting some Remington UMC I used the trusty JP Rifles targets at 100 yds to set my initial 300 yards zero. I then moved out to 200 and it checked to see that it was still higher than POA which it was. However at 300 my POI is well below the POA. I'm talking like 4-6" or more. I think some of problem may be that my 4X Accupoint does not have enough magnification for me to clearly see the target at 300 yds and pick the exact same POA every shot. Either that or I don't understand how this all works after all.

Any advice on how to properly zero at 300 woudl be greatly appreciated. Should I set my initial zero at 25 rather that use the JP target at 100? Maybe my initial 300 yard zero with the JP target at 100 yards isn't tight enough either?