OAL PROBLEMS

[RAZZ]

I was hoping I could get some advice from those with much more experience than this novice reloader. I have a Lee loadmaster in .40 that I have loaded less than 3000 rounds on. It has the carbide die set as well as the factory crimp die. I am reloading hard cast 180 gr. bullets with mixed brass. The loader works well, however, my OAL in very inconsistent. For instance, I will load a round, check it as it comes out of the seating die and it will mic. at say 1.120. The very next one might be 1.140, and the one after that 1.100. I have thouroughly cleaned the dies of any lead shavings, made sure all the dies were tightened per the owners manual (it says hand tight), and have been concious of pulling the handle the same every time. I can understand slight differences in OAL round to round, but what I am getting just plain sucks. Any ideas? Thanks...

[gm iprod]

I don't mean to offend, but for the love of pete by a DILLON.

OR, check which shape the bullet seater is, in the die, make sure it matches the projectile. Also check your crimp. I would suspect that you are using one die to seat and crimp. Buy a seperate crimping die.

Happy shooting.

[Wildman]

Check your bullets.  I used to have a lot of problems wiht one brand of cast bullets throwing strange OAL's, and went thru the same things you are.  In the end, the local caster had some bad molds.  Try a box of good jacketed bullets, and see if your efforts aren't more effective.

[Sgt Rock]

I get some variation with cast lead #68 200 gr. SWC with mixed range brass for my .45 loads, but nothing over 2 or 3 thousandths difference.  But, then again I use a Dillion 550B.

[Clark]

I have that problem all the time, but with me it is from compressed powder, I doubt you are compressing the powder with 40sw and 180 gr bullets.

If I were you I would seat some bullets very slowly while watching. I would stop some of the bullets not seated all the way and tap them in with a hammer. Are the bullets seating too easily in the range you are having troule with? There is supposed to be a thickness taper in the case wall that should be giving a resistance to seating. Is that working?

Also, does the seater plug shape match the shape of the top of bullet? Is it making marks on the bullets?

(Edited by Clark at 3:32 pm on April 21, 2002)

[warpspeed]

Razz,

sometimes it is the simplest things we overlook.

Is everything tight on the press like it is supose to be?

Sometimes the screws can loosen up and cause things like shellplates to move. This can lead to very inconsistent results.

Also, are you seating & crimping with a case in the size die? The seating & crimping procedures are very dependent on the shellplate pressure and if you are running 1 at a time, the OAL will be off.  ALWAYS load with a case in the size position, even if you don't prime it.

As for "handtight", I tighten the lock ring on the dies with a wrench so that I need a wrench to remove it. Perhaps this is a little more than hand tight but it sure is not loose.

Hope that helps.

[R Kelly]

Razz,  Check the set screw that holds the dieplate. I tighten it with plyers. My Lee gives me + or- .005 on average. I have loaded on a Dillon 550. It gave me + or - .002. Good luck

[Patrick Sweeney]

Check your belling station setting.  If you aren't belling enough, you'll shave lube up the bullet, deposit in the seating die, and as the amount fluctuates you can get variable seating depth.  Then buy a Dillon.  From Brian.

[RAZZ]

Yeah, I figured that would be the easiest thing to do--buy a Dillon. And if the LEE wasn't a birthday gift from my wife (and I didn't think she would be super pissed if I dropped another couple hundred $) I would do just that. I am using a seperate die for crimping. Thanks for all of the advice. I'll try everything and get back to you. Thanks again...

[Duane Thomas]

I'm not familiar with the Lee's quality since I started on Dillons and have just stayed there ever since. But, assuming the Lee is a decent machine, it might just be your problem is really simple - the mixed brass. I've noticed that, depending on the brand of brass, and even on how many times the brass has been fired, my OAL can vary considerably, sometimes even going so far outside what I consider acceptable I have to adjust the seating die before continuing on after switching to a new "type" of brass. For instance, nickel brass will always give me a longer OAL than plain brass. This only makes sense, the plated nickel case is thicker, and thus there's more resistence as I try to force the bullet down into the case at the seating station. Similarly as brass is fired repeatedly it gets thinner, every time you fire it. In my experience once fired brass will load considerably longer than stuff that's been loaded, say, seven times. Sort your brass by maker and how many times it's been fired - a good procedure in any event - and your problem of wildly fluctuating OALs may go away.

Also, unload the Lee on some poor, unsuspecting slob, then take the money and buy a Dillon.

(Edited by Duane Thomas at 6:43 pm on April 23, 2002)

[gm iprod]

Don't tell her!!! My shooting fund is run like the Secret Service, on a need to know basis.

All else fails, use the money from the Lee to buy the lady something nice. Or make sure the couch is real comfortable to slep on. Mine Is.

[Flexmoney]

Spray paint.  Blue to Red.

(Edited by Flexmoney at 1:54 pm on April 23, 2002)

[Carlos]

Good advice so far; I'll add that I had the same problems with a DILLON brand press (650) and lead bullets: 2 problems come to mind:

1) Lead is inconsistant. Measure your loads again, only this time, measure, rotate the round 90 deg. measure again, move caliper slightly to L/R, measure. Notice a variation? All bullets seem to contact the seater only on their heighest point (assuming one point does not "catch" in a particular corner of the seater). With lead, the "high point" was always inconsistant - leading to different OALs.

2) Wax/lead WILL build up on the seater. Even with correct belling, wax gets on bullet tips in the box and later ends up on the seater. Once in a while, the build up will stick to one round, then you are back to the originally set OAL. Just try keeping the seater clean and maybe start out a batch of 500 with a film of your wonderlube of choice on the seater insert (I like Ballistoil).

3) Try a batch of sorted brass - may make a difference. Have any of these suggestions worked?

Don't let us razz you too much on the Lee thing; I love my Dillon but I use a Lee "U" sizer die and factory crimp die in the .45 toolhead. The Lee 1000 press will continue to frustrate you, no doubt, but the ammo made on it should be fine until you can afford the Dillon. Thus, I don't think you "need" a Dillon. I'd say run the Lee until it absolutely will not work and then advertize on USPSA.com for a used Dillon (or new - your choice). The SDB and 550s are nice - also affordable.

[Flexmoney]

Hey, if you do buy a new Dillon press...or anything made by Dillon...buy from our gracious host, Brian Enos.  You will be supporting this great site and Brian even offers a 5-10% discount.

To see what else BE offers, click the link below:

http://www.brianenos.com/pages/products.html

   

[shred]

Also, if for some reason you're loading a super-bulky powder, the bullet can start oozing back out before it gets to the crimp station.  I doubt this is your problem, but it hits the Super folks occasionally.

I'd go look in your seater die first.  If it doesn't match the bullet well, you can try this trick: Clean out the die and put a small ball of wax on the bullet-contacting-part of the seating stem.  Then cover it with a small chunk of aluminum foil and run a loaded round up into it.  If all goes well, you now have a custom-shaped seating stem.

 

[RAZZ]

All of your suggestions were great. I especially like the Secret Service-like shooting fund idea. Although if my wife found out, I'd probably be better off telling her I was spending the $ on another woman. I tried about everything you all came up with, and, lo and behold--it worked. Making sure I sized a round every time I was seating a bullet seemed to help considerably. I also screwed the expander die in about a quarter or half turn farther than what the manual suggests, which seems to have belled my cases just enough to prevent the lead shavings from accumulating in the seating and crimping dies. And the suggestion about checking the bullets was also correct--different size at different places on the bullet. Thank you all very much.