What does a pro shooter make?

[North]

Do you think I'd be treated like this if I walked into the Staple's center and asked if I could shoot some hoops? Would Kobe come out, give me a tour of the premises, and then help me to improve my free throw?

Did you walk in with your open rig strapped on? If so I think he would do what you told him to.

+1000

The big boys in the big money sports are well removed from their fans. I doubt that I could get within 50 feet of some NBA star before being hammered by his security, ...

How do you think they would treat you at the range, after they saw you burn down a stage? Our sport is a hell of a lot more useful than basketball or football or just about any of the major sports. I think if you could get the superstars of NBA/NFL to try our sport they would be hooked.

I think the shooting community is living proof of Col. Coopers saying that "an armed society is a polite society."

Plus we are better than most of the Pro-Sports. As a whole, USPSA has a hell of a lot more character and integrity than any other sport or group of people I can think of.

[oddjob]

I remember having a cold Coors Lite when my cell phone went off. The caller asked if I had forgotten something. I couldn't think of what he was talking about. Then I realized I left my gun at the range!! Nice people we play our games with.

[L-10_shooter]

Maybe it's a bit of a drift, but I've been reading through this thread, and there's a part of me that is more than okay with the fact that our top guys don't have multi-million dollar contracts.

I think it's totally amazing that I--as in, "me," a total nobody--can go to a new club, tell them that I'm a first-timer on the premises, and the match director will wave down a GM, who happens to be the owner of a gun parts manufacturing company that probably everybody in this forum would recognize, and without batting an eyelash he welcomes me and walks me through the day like an old buddy, offering primo advice on how I can improve my game. This is exactly what happened with me last weekend; in my same squad was one of the best female shooters around, and she treated me just the same, inviting me several times to try out her regular club's matches next weekend. Furthermore, this is not unusual. At another local club on my first visit to that facility, the MD who is a major name that every person on this forum would recognize told me where he lived and invited me to stop by whenever I liked; we even discussed carpooling to the matches.

Do you think I'd be treated like this if I walked into the Staple's center and asked if I could shoot some hoops? Would Kobe come out, give me a tour of the premises, and then help me to improve my free throw?

This is a humbled and open community, and I really like that. Now, I'm not wishing to "keep anybody down" from succeeding-- if one of us can score a million dollar sponsorship, then good for him, but is it really a bad thing that it's not happening? If so-and-so has a contract that's "only" for $80,000 a year, plus prize money, plus training deals on the side... um... who is complaining?

Personally, I don't want to be a professional competitive shooter. I want to keep this for me. Now, would it be great if I had a semi-sponsorship that asked for a little salesmanship on my part in trade for help with my expenses so I can afford to practice and regularly attend Level I matches, plus a Level III here and there. Of course-- sign me up. If the sponsor is smart, he's hiring me more for my ability to bring him clients than my ability to come in 1st rather than 2nd or 3rd.

This is a sport by us, for us-- rather than by corporate executives, for corporate profits. Let's not be ashamed to keep it that way.

Best post I've read in a long time.

I couldn't agree more. I shot my first major match (Area 1) two weeks ago and had Max and Blake (overall match winner) in my squad. Both were more than helpful with taping, setting steel and helping out. Max even asked me to send him the video and pics I got of him at the match. They dont seem to be on this huge pedistal that they are pros and we are measly clup shooters.

This comrodery and instant friendship have made me want to keep shooting even more. Before I did shooting I drag raced and having to deal with all the a hole red necks and snobby pro guys sucked. Watching Max shoot was like riding along with John force in his car (minus the extream G forces). I agree with SA friday totally, this sport may not have that may paid pros but they are the greatest guys. This also keeps them down to earth I guess. Getting paid millions upon millions of dollars to play sports separates you from everyone else.

[kurtm]

I can tell you EXACTLY what pro shooters make. Very fast and accurate hits and really fast reloads! KurtM

[Dan Hefta]

Maybe it's a bit of a drift, but I've been reading through this thread, and there's a part of me that is more than okay with the fact that our top guys don't have multi-million dollar contracts.

I think it's totally amazing that I--as in, "me," a total nobody--can go to a new club, tell them that I'm a first-timer on the premises, and the match director will wave down a GM, who happens to be the owner of a gun parts manufacturing company that probably everybody in this forum would recognize, and without batting an eyelash he welcomes me and walks me through the day like an old buddy, offering primo advice on how I can improve my game. This is exactly what happened with me last weekend; in my same squad was one of the best female shooters around, and she treated me just the same, inviting me several times to try out her regular club's matches next weekend. Furthermore, this is not unusual. At another local club on my first visit to that facility, the MD who is a major name that every person on this forum would recognize told me where he lived and invited me to stop by whenever I liked; we even discussed carpooling to the matches.

Do you think I'd be treated like this if I walked into the Staple's center and asked if I could shoot some hoops? Would Kobe come out, give me a tour of the premises, and then help me to improve my free throw?

This is a humbled and open community, and I really like that. Now, I'm not wishing to "keep anybody down" from succeeding-- if one of us can score a million dollar sponsorship, then good for him, but is it really a bad thing that it's not happening? If so-and-so has a contract that's "only" for $80,000 a year, plus prize money, plus training deals on the side... um... who is complaining?

Personally, I don't want to be a professional competitive shooter. I want to keep this for me. Now, would it be great if I had a semi-sponsorship that asked for a little salesmanship on my part in trade for help with my expenses so I can afford to practice and regularly attend Level I matches, plus a Level III here and there. Of course-- sign me up. If the sponsor is smart, he's hiring me more for my ability to bring him clients than my ability to come in 1st rather than 2nd or 3rd.

This is a sport by us, for us-- rather than by corporate executives, for corporate profits. Let's not be ashamed to keep it that way.

GREAT POST, I hope to meet you some day at a match, well actually I meet guys like you at allmost every match, that is what I love about our sport.

Edited July 2, 2009 by danscrapbags

[Paul Burtchell]

Maybe it's a bit of a drift, but I've been reading through this thread, and there's a part of me that is more than okay with the fact that our top guys don't have multi-million dollar contracts.

I think it's totally amazing that I--as in, "me," a total nobody--can go to a new club, tell them that I'm a first-timer on the premises, and the match director will wave down a GM, who happens to be the owner of a gun parts manufacturing company that probably everybody in this forum would recognize, and without batting an eyelash he welcomes me and walks me through the day like an old buddy, offering primo advice on how I can improve my game. This is exactly what happened with me last weekend; in my same squad was one of the best female shooters around, and she treated me just the same, inviting me several times to try out her regular club's matches next weekend. Furthermore, this is not unusual. At another local club on my first visit to that facility, the MD who is a major name that every person on this forum would recognize told me where he lived and invited me to stop by whenever I liked; we even discussed carpooling to the matches.

Do you think I'd be treated like this if I walked into the Staple's center and asked if I could shoot some hoops? Would Kobe come out, give me a tour of the premises, and then help me to improve my free throw?

This is a humbled and open community, and I really like that. Now, I'm not wishing to "keep anybody down" from succeeding-- if one of us can score a million dollar sponsorship, then good for him, but is it really a bad thing that it's not happening? If so-and-so has a contract that's "only" for $80,000 a year, plus prize money, plus training deals on the side... um... who is complaining?

Personally, I don't want to be a professional competitive shooter. I want to keep this for me. Now, would it be great if I had a semi-sponsorship that asked for a little salesmanship on my part in trade for help with my expenses so I can afford to practice and regularly attend Level I matches, plus a Level III here and there. Of course-- sign me up. If the sponsor is smart, he's hiring me more for my ability to bring him clients than my ability to come in 1st rather than 2nd or 3rd.

This is a sport by us, for us-- rather than by corporate executives, for corporate profits. Let's not be ashamed to keep it that way.

Best post I've read in a long time.

+1

[GrumpyOne]

.....I know this is a growing sport.....

Sadly, this is not true.

I'm sorry Sir, I have to disagree with you. It IS a growing sport. New members every month, new products, new matches, new clubs. Maybe it's not growing as fast as you'd like for it to be, but it IS growing.

You apparently missed my point, bud. This thread is about professional shooters, and I described what appears to have been the "golden age" of professional shooting that came--and went--a number of years ago. You will certainly will have to agree there is nothing resembling that in the world of competitive handgunning today.

Today we have Rob (Springfield/Safariland), Todd (Para), Dave (Glock), and Jerry (S&W) as the only players that have truly managed to eke out a living at this game on an extended, long-term basis. Maybe Max's deal will work out and in a few years he can join that list, but I really think it's too soon to know--and let's face it, SIG doesn't really have products that are much good for what we do in USPSA, so Max could run into those R.O.I. issues there, too.

Everyone seems to forget Doug Koenig!

[GrumpyOne]

I remember having a cold Coors Lite when my cell phone went off. The caller asked if I had forgotten something. I couldn't think of what he was talking about. Then I realized I left my gun at the range!! Nice people we play our games with.

[Turboprop]

.....I know this is a growing sport.....

Sadly, this is not true.

There was a time (about 15-20 years ago) when competitive handgunning looked like it might be at the verge of making the jump to the mainstream. There was a real multi-disciplinary circuit of big match events to attend, all of which had real prizes (remember when you could win $25,000 or $50,000 or a Rolex or a Jeep?) for the winners. Springfield/Safariland and Smith & Wesson had big teams of sponsored and semi-sponsored shooters, and other teams were being formed. Beer companies and car manufacturers were interested in signing up for advertising and match sponsorship, not just sponsors from within the shooting industry.

Then it all fell apart.

What happened? Well, it depends on who you ask.

I would really like to here more about this. I've only been shooting USPSA for almost three years now. I wasn't aware of those days. I would like to see the sport grow. It is crazy to think there are only 20K shooters in USPSA with the millions of gun owners in the US.

[Nik Habicht]

I would really like to here more about this. I've only been shooting USPSA for almost three years now. I wasn't aware of those days. I would like to see the sport grow. It is crazy to think there are only 20K shooters in USPSA with the millions of gun owners in the US.

Kinda like it's crazy how few NASCAR drivers there are, considering how many car owners there are in the U.S., huh?

[Xfactor]

I would really like to here more about this. I've only been shooting USPSA for almost three years now. I wasn't aware of those days. I would like to see the sport grow. It is crazy to think there are only 20K shooters in USPSA with the millions of gun owners in the US.

Kinda like it's crazy how few NASCAR drivers there are, considering how many car owners there are in the U.S., huh?

Last I checked, anyone who could lap the track safely couldn't show up for a race and compete along with the best...

[kgunz11]

I still can't believe anyone would say this sport is not growing. The numbers prove otherwise. Yeah, it'll never be what NASCAR is, it was never going to be, and to think differently is foolish. We have to fight to keep our guns, there's no way shooting them is going to become a mainstream kind of thing.

Are there really fewer big matches than there were 15-20 years ago? I mean, a sign of growth and progress is increased numbers and participation. There's a paper trail to show USPSA is bigger than it ever has been.

[Carmoney]

I still can't believe anyone would say this sport is not growing.

Bobby, I think if you had been involved in competitive handgun shooting back in the "golden era," you would understand what we're talking about. Back 20 years ago, I was at shooting matches where shoot-off side match winners could pick up $2,000 to $5,000 (even got one of those myself once upon a time!), where they had great big cases covered with gun prizes including HK rifles and engraved S&W N-frames, where you could win a Mercedes, a motorcycle, or an all-expenses paid trip to Vegas--stuff like that. The big sponsors sent teams of shooters in full uniform (Jerry M. even had to wear a pair of S&W athletic shoes, which I think he found slightly embarrassing), and this was back when being sponsored meant a lot more than being given a discount on purchases and a colorful shirt to wear.

If the numbers show that USPSA is growing, that's great news. But this thread is about pro shooters, and currently there are only a tiny handful of pro shooters who can truly live off the income from their winnings and sponsorships. We may have just as many big matches today if you're counting up all the area and sectional matches listed on the website. But none of those matches are truly "big" compared to what we used to have.

We came fairly close to becoming a semi-mainstream spectator sport back then. We had Jeep and Anheuser-Busch and a couple other real sponsors sniffing around us pretty seriously for awhile back in the early '90s. There's nothing like that going on now....unfortunately.

On the bright side, I am very encouraged by the recent effort by several shooters and clubs to bring this game to the attention of the local news media. These news clips with the "local shooter heading to national championship" stories might be the harbinger of a new upswing of mainstream interest in the stuff we do. Let's hope!

Edited October 12, 2009 by Carmoney

[Filishooter]

Difference between USPSA and NASCAR I would guess are other shooters, or people somehow directly involved with the shooting sports desire to watch shooting matches where in NASCAR people not directly involved with the sport watch NASCAR. TV caters to larger audiences to pull advertisers and advertisers put money where the most exposure is.

When is the last time you saw the bleachers full of spectators at a USPSA match? Maybe at the Nationals? Compare that to the stands at the Daytona 500!

[MichiganShootist]

I've been to a lot of matches and taken a lot of snap shots.... but my favorites are still from the Single Stack Classic (now called the SS Nationals)

In the pictures Robbie, his wife Kippie and the rest of the super squad are slopping through water to paste targets and set up steel.... then they came back and "hid" uder the umbrellas of the groupies who were following them around in the rain.

Imagine Tiger Woods or any of the tennis prema-donnas behaving like that

IT'S JUST TOO DAMN BAD THE USPSA/IPSC/IDPA AREN'T GOOD SECTATOR SPORTS.

Edited October 12, 2009 by MichiganShootist

[gunther]

I think if redbull or monster started to sponsor a few guys it could put this sport into the mainstream. Televised nationals maybe.

[TWHaz]

"I’m happy for you that you are being paid to do what you love, but I couldn’t do it. I love shooting too much." He knew

From BE's what I hate post.

http://brianenos.com/pages/hate.html#tophate

IMHO

When a hobby becomes a job, pressure to produce kills the fun.

TGO makes good $$$$$ with his "DrillMaster Shooting Club" memberships.

As he should considering the skills you can learn for the $$$ you pay.

I do not know how much, but do the math.

http://www.robleatham.com/Rob%20Leatham%20...ster%20Club.htm

[chendersby]

I still can't believe anyone would say this sport is not growing.

On the bright side, I am very encouraged by the recent effort by several shooters and clubs to bring this game to the attention of the local news media. These news clips with the "local shooter heading to national championship" stories might be the harbinger of a new upswing of mainstream interest in the stuff we do. Let's hope!

Mike

That is also comming out of headquarters in the form of press releases. Paul Erhardt is working with us on that.

[Carmoney]

That's a very good point, Chris.

Whether these efforts are being initiated from HQ or from individuals in the field, it's a very positive thing for our sport to acquire such positive mainstream media coverage.

[Loves2Shoot]

What you make as a shooter has little to do with how much you get to keep. I could drop 100K+ a year on expenses alone if I wanted to seriously shoot and go to matches.

As far as ROI for pro shooters, you have to sell a heck of a lot of product to cover a shooter's expenses.

Bowling is much more lucrative than shooting and much less overhead.

[Coveyrise]

The only way for pro's to make more money at this sport is for someone to come along and revolutionize the courses and make them spectator friendly and have 15,000 people able to watch the match and actaully see what is going on during the event. Then everything else will fall in place.

This would take some new ideas and possibly technology that can make this happen.

Politics might even try to stop it.

It is an uphill fight, like any other.

[Charles Bond]

The only way for pro's to make more money at this sport is for someone to come along and revolutionize the courses and make them spectator friendly and have 15,000 people able to watch the match and actaully see what is going on during the event. Then everything else will fall in place.

This would take some new ideas and possibly technology that can make this happen.

Politics might even try to stop it.

It is an uphill fight, like any other.

Ideas on how to make the sport more spectator friendly are encouraged. Falling steel is one way. The challenge is how to do it and not radically change the nature of our game.

As for TV coverage, we have more than we have ever had and a big help is the mini cams that can attach to the bill of a hat and not interfere with the shooter's ability to shoot the stage.

If others have ideas on what we can do here to make the sport more spectator and broadcast friendly, fire at will.

[cold]

The only way for pro's to make more money at this sport is for someone to come along and revolutionize the courses and make them spectator friendly and have 15,000 people able to watch the match and actaully see what is going on during the event. Then everything else will fall in place.

This would take some new ideas and possibly technology that can make this happen.

Politics might even try to stop it.

It is an uphill fight, like any other.

Ideas on how to make the sport more spectator friendly are encouraged. Falling steel is one way. The challenge is how to do it and not radically change the nature of our game.

As for TV coverage, we have more than we have ever had and a big help is the mini cams that can attach to the bill of a hat and not interfere with the shooter's ability to shoot the stage.

If others have ideas on what we can do here to make the sport more spectator and broadcast friendly, fire at will.

I was talking to Rob about this the other night, while neither of us were shooting during the "golden age" I think with the advent of youtube, the net and other tech advances, the sport is reaching out and grabbing new shooters through these non traditional means. Will the sport grow to the level where it can hold 2x the number of paid pros like TGO, TJ, DK etc? My educated guess would be, highly unlikely but I will not say "never" as anything is possible.

I know Rob, Tod and I are working on something rather large for next fall 2010 and I am toying with a few unique ideas which might help bring more attention to the sport of 3 gun/multi gun. As I see it, that's where a lot of new shooter growth is coming from (3 gun, multi gun) maybe its because it has "hints" of the tac/operator feel which some guys like or maybe because of the fact one can use their AR15/handgun/shottie on the same stage. Also the 3 gun game appears to get more writing in gun mags as of late then uspsa/ipsc. Just my view anyways.

Edited October 22, 2009 by cold

[Irishlad]

I think with the advent of youtube, the net and other tech advances, the sport is reaching out and grabbing new shooters through these non traditional means.

Very wise...IMHO.

[CHA-LEE]

The expansion of competition shooting exposure needs to start at the local club level. I am a new shooter with a little over a year of experience in USPSA/IDPA and general match shooting. The thing that I found very surprising when I first started is that I really had to DIG HARD for information to find places to shoot matches.

Each range or club seems to be in their own little world and if you don’t proactively search them out then you would never find them. The problem here is that if you don’t even know they exist how do you know to even look for them?

I feel like I have a solid grasp of the competition shooting scene here in Colorado as I have put in a lot of effort to find the places to shoot competition matches. But even then, I am shocked to find new places to shoot matches quite often. Most of this is by either word of mouth or just stumbling across it while surfing the web.

If we really want competition shooting to expand and be taken to the next “Level” then we need it to be easily found and available to the average person at the local level. Who cares if its on TV or in magazines if local shooters can’t even find the local shooting scene easily? The change in mentality needs to start at the local level first. Doing just that would make a HUGE difference.