sandman_sy Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I've read a lot of discussion on how they found the right recipe for their loads... and how this the best load for their barrel... etc. But for me.. i've no idea how to do this.. for example.. I use VV N140 at 24.0gr for my 77gr SMK... why?? because its what i read most favored recipe among all forums. But i want to try "working" up a load... can someone give me assistance?? I've tried searching for it.. but to no success... Thanx in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Sierra publishes an outstanding reloading manual. Not a better one can be found for rifle shooters IMO. Cabela's, Sportsman's Warehouse etc usually stock them. Buy one tomorrow. Must have.... Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2osport Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Basically if you have chosen your powder and bullet, then working up your load is trying different powder charges, bullet seating depths, brass length, crimp, etc. The most basic would be to vary your powder charge. Start below your load as every gun is different. For precision rifle I would work in 0.1 gr increments. Load 10 rds at 23.5gr, 23.6gr, etc on up until you are just under the Book recommended maximum load. I am showing 24.7 as the max for the Sierra 77gr hpbt in a 1:7 twist. I would run this load up to 24.2 in those increments. If you are not seeing any pressure signs and your groups are still shrinking, then keep working up carefully being aware of the max load recommendations. Go shoot each 10 bullet load for groups. You are looking for your group to shrink as well as the group to pattern high on the target. Pick the smallest/highest group for your load. For obvious reasons you want the smallest group possible. The reason for the higher group on the target is that your barrell will be at the highest point in its vibration, and theoretically will be at the point where it is moving the least. Similar to shooting a swinger at the point where it is changing direction. This is a EXTREMELY basic description of working a load up. Do some research, get the sierra book. So many things can affect the cartridge accuracy. If you want to get super technical, you can work on varying trim length, Case overall length, Crimp(if any), etc. BE SAFE Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 My personal favourite for when I was working up loads for NRA high power. http://www.zediker.com/books/handloading/hlmain.html http://www.zediker.com/books/handloading/testing.html This is some of the best information you can get on rifle loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman_sy Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) thank you so much H2oshooter Dead on to what i meant ok sir..i will difently try what you suggested... wish me luck Shawn.. that looks very interesting i will try that and the Sierra manual when i get there in the US of A sometime this year:) Edited June 5, 2009 by sandman_sy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAR15 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) First off - what are you working up the load for? If you are shooting highpower at 500~600 yards, then careful load development and control of your variables is worthwhile. For anything under 300 yards, put a 69 or 77 grain SMK on top of 24.5 grains of R15 (24.0 of N140 works too) and go shoot. Your time and money will be better spent on practice than fiddling with loads. CP Edited June 10, 2009 by ChrisAR15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 First off - what are you working up the load for?If you are shooting highpower at 500~600 yards, then careful load development and control of your variables is worthwhile. For anything under 300 yards, put a 69 or 77 grain SMK on top of 24.5 grains of R15 (24.0 of N140 works too) and go shoot. Your time and money will be better spent on practice than fiddling with loads. CP You officially loose all credibility. That is ridiculous advice to give someone that has asked for an explanation of a simple loading technique. He didn't ask for load data he asked for information on how to work up a load. If he wants to "fiddle" with loading then let him. He will learn more about loading doing that than you just handing out load data. He may also find a load that works better than your load for his gun and I hope he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Do a google search for ladder testing, or go to 6mmBR.com for an article on ladder testing. It can save a lot of time and group shooting/barrel life. I would not do tenth grain increments, maybe .3 or .5. Once you have a powder charge selected you can try various seating depths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAR15 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 First off - what are you working up the load for?If you are shooting highpower at 500~600 yards, then careful load development and control of your variables is worthwhile. For anything under 300 yards, put a 69 or 77 grain SMK on top of 24.5 grains of R15 (24.0 of N140 works too) and go shoot. Your time and money will be better spent on practice than fiddling with loads. CP You officially loose all credibility. That is ridiculous advice to give someone that has asked for an explanation of a simple loading technique. He didn't ask for load data he asked for information on how to work up a load. If he wants to "fiddle" with loading then let him. He will learn more about loading doing that than you just handing out load data. He may also find a load that works better than your load for his gun and I hope he does. Whoa... Thanks for the warm welcome there. My creds: Highpower shooter for 10 years. Distinguished Rifleman. NYS Service rifle team. NRA HP Master. I have "fiddled" with .223 rifle loads for years. The advice given here is the same advice I was given (and ignored) at the start of my Highpower career. I have personally wasted entire seasons "fiddling" Not having a consistent load obscures the results of other, more important changes to performance, namely, shooter variables. Any of the given loads will work out to mid range (300 yards). There are many variables involved. Unless you have the luxury of unlimited time to work up a load, you will do far more to improve the results on paper by spending that time practicing. Position, sight alignment, trigger control and wind reading ability are worth exponentially more than a 1/2 MOA load. Just my $.02 Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 OK you get some back but it would be best for the OP to try his hand at loading and learn his own gear before jumping right in and loading. We have all been there and done that at some point but we can't really just throw load data out as if that is the only option. The OP may want to use different powders or bullets. I know the load you are talking about and have used it quite well but does it make Minor? In his gun it might not. He will need to work his load up and test it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2osport Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Everybody has got to figure out where they want to spend their time. The OP said he wanted to try working up a load. It is his time. If he really wants to try it, is he going to be out more than a couple of hours. Maybe he decides he likes the challenge of shooting 3/8" groups at 100 yards with his ar. I know lots of guys that just work on load development because that is what they like to do. Sandman, load up some rounds with the different powder charges(0.1gr or 0.3gr increments, you decide). Depending on how many you load this could take less than an hour. Go to the range and shoot each load for groups(another hour or two). At that point you can decide if you want to spend anymore time working up that load. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAR15 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Everybody has got to figure out where they want to spend their time. The OP said he wanted to try working up a load. It is his time. If he really wants to try it, is he going to be out more than a couple of hours. Maybe he decides he likes the challenge of shooting 3/8" groups at 100 yards with his ar. I know lots of guys that just work on load development because that is what they like to do. Sandman, load up some rounds with the different powder charges(0.1gr or 0.3gr increments, you decide). Depending on how many you load this could take less than an hour. Go to the range and shoot each load for groups(another hour or two). At that point you can decide if you want to spend anymore time working up that load. Randy Point taken. I tend to see everything through the filter of competitive shooting. Sometimes I forget that people have other goals. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 All good now? I apologize for being abrasive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Not having a consistent load obscures the results of other, more important changes to performance, namely, shooter variables. This statement goes along with the concept of "Pick One and Practice" for guns --- consistency is important in that it eliminates variables. (If you know the gun and ammo, you won't be able to blame them; you'll need to look for other reasons....) Other than that --- and my limited handgun experience may be showing through here --- working up a load basically means starting somewhere in the published range (ideally low), loading some rounds, increasing the powder charge (or changing seating depth, bullet profile --- but only changing one thing at a time) and repeating as you deem fit, while documenting which batch of ammo is which. Then typically you'd shoot some rounds over the chrono, some for accuracy (i.e. group tightness -- because you should be able to move point of impact with adjustable sights), and some for reliable operation of the gun in question. (I usually try to fire the last group weakhand only while trying to limpwrist --- but I come at it from the pistol end....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 First off - what are you working up the load for?If you are shooting highpower at 500~600 yards, then careful load development and control of your variables is worthwhile. For anything under 300 yards, put a 69 or 77 grain SMK on top of 24.5 grains of R15 (24.0 of N140 works too) and go shoot. Your time and money will be better spent on practice than fiddling with loads. CP You officially loose all credibility. That is ridiculous advice to give someone that has asked for an explanation of a simple loading technique. He didn't ask for load data he asked for information on how to work up a load. If he wants to "fiddle" with loading then let him. He will learn more about loading doing that than you just handing out load data. He may also find a load that works better than your load for his gun and I hope he does. Whoa... Thanks for the warm welcome there. My creds: Highpower shooter for 10 years. Distinguished Rifleman. NYS Service rifle team. NRA HP Master. I have "fiddled" with .223 rifle loads for years. The advice given here is the same advice I was given (and ignored) at the start of my Highpower career. I have personally wasted entire seasons "fiddling" Not having a consistent load obscures the results of other, more important changes to performance, namely, shooter variables. Any of the given loads will work out to mid range (300 yards). There are many variables involved. Unless you have the luxury of unlimited time to work up a load, you will do far more to improve the results on paper by spending that time practicing. Position, sight alignment, trigger control and wind reading ability are worth exponentially more than a 1/2 MOA load. Just my $.02 Chris I agree, much time should be devoted to practice, but as a fellow HP shooter, I can't believe you think you "wasted entire seasons fiddling" with load work. I learned some of the most valuable lessons of my shooting career by paying attention to the effects subtle changes in loads had on paper down range. I also strongly disagree in the statement Position, sight alignment, trigger control and wind reading ability are worth exponentially more than a 1/2 MOA load. They all have to be there. How good is a shooter if not measured by the accuracy of his hits? What are you learning if you shoot a poor load? Do you shoot along side of guys that can call .25MOA corrections in the wind before they pull the trigger? I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I agree, much time should be devoted to practice, but as a fellow HP shooter, I can't believe you think you "wasted entire seasons fiddling" with load work. I learned some of the most valuable lessons of my shooting career by paying attention to the effects subtle changes in loads had on paper down range. I know I wasted about 6 hours total loading and shooting time in one year. I think it was about 3 range sessions. I found what worked best for my rifle and I stuck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Shawn, that approach is a solid one, and I'm with you. But I did learn volumes doing multiple load developments with several different calibers. I know all the short cuts to getting the most accurate load with very little time spent. Now I can spend more time practicing with a load I KNOW is solid, not just some info some dude gave me on the interweb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) 77 grain SMK on top of 24.5 grains of R15 and go shoot. CP This one had been bugging me for a while. I hate to bring up a dead subject but this load is over max. The Alliant loading guide state a max load under a 77SMK as 24.1gr of RL15. I know it is only .3gr but it is still above published load data for the powder mentioned. Edited June 15, 2009 by Shawn Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 77 grain SMK on top of 24.5 grains of R15 and go shoot. CP This one had been bugging me for a while. I hate to bring up a dead subject but this load is over max. The Alliant loading guide state a max load under a 77SMK as 24.1gr of RL15. I know it is only .3gr but it is still above published load data for the powder mentioned. Alliant has liability issues to worry about. Highpower shooters will hot rod their ammo, just as pistol shooters do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 77 grain SMK on top of 24.5 grains of R15 and go shoot. CP This one had been bugging me for a while. I hate to bring up a dead subject but this load is over max. The Alliant loading guide state a max load under a 77SMK as 24.1gr of RL15. I know it is only .3gr but it is still above published load data for the powder mentioned. Alliant has liability issues to worry about. Highpower shooters will hot rod their ammo, just as pistol shooters do. Hot rodding a 77SMK in USPSA is not needed either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Hot rodding a 77SMK in USPSA is not needed either. Shooting a 77SMK in USPSA is a waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Hot rodding a 77SMK in USPSA is not needed either. Shooting a 77SMK in USPSA is a waste of money. 'Till your trying to buck the wind at 400+ yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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