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Flying with Guns

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If you're talking about what I think you''re talking about, it is not suitable. You have to get a case that cannot be pried open.

If you're flying with a single handgun and 2 mags, a NanoVault works great.

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if you fly regularly with your guns consider getting a Pelican case.  They are basically indestructible, lockable and the small ones easily fit inside a larger suitcase ...

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On August 3, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Paul-the new guy said:

I fly to 3-gun matches about once a month. Having to open the case at the ticket counter is the norm.

Always impressive to the people in line behind you when you open a case like this....

904D9A8E-C148-43AA-80AB-FBFB6519E1F1_zps

 

I'm sure you won't do anything silly like fly to Cali with a gun but if you do, make sure your ammo and firearm is not in the same case.  

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14 minutes ago, michael1one said:

I'm sure you won't do anything silly like fly to Cali with a gun but if you do, make sure your ammo and firearm is not in the same case.  

Can you cite the CA law that forbids it?  Last I heard, it was legal, as long as the firearms were not loaded, and handgun cases were locked, so if things are different, knowing would be good.  If you don't know the law, please cite to where you heard it so we can get on the same page.

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18 hours ago, MAC702 said:

Can you cite the CA law that forbids it?  Last I heard, it was legal, as long as the firearms were not loaded, and handgun cases were locked, so if things are different, knowing would be good.  If you don't know the law, please cite to where you heard it so we can get on the same page.

 
 
 

 

Mac,  

 

That was a good question.  I never really looked it up.  Some of the answers are found in Calguns (the main gun forum for California.)  Here is a sample thread. https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=52485   There is no specific law.  But here is the argument 

  • It is unlawful to carry a loaded firearm on one’s person or in a vehicle while in any public place, on any public street, or in any place where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm.(Penal Code § 12031(a)(1).) 
  • A firearm is deemed loaded when there is a live cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.  (Penal Code § 12031(g).)
  • For the purposes of Penal Code section 12023 (commission or attempted commission of a felony while armed with a loaded firearm), a firearm is deemed loaded when both the firearm and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate possession of the same person.  (Penal Code § 12034.)

So the argument goes that the ammo does not have to actually be in the gun for it to be considered loaded.  Note that the comma after the word "magazine" which imples that a loaded magazine is a loaded gun.  While this may be an argument in semantics, some of the officers of the great nation of California have arrested people using similar logic.  One example is Clark in which he arrested and charged with having a loaded firearm because he had shells in a case attached to the butt of the shotgun.  Arrest first and ask questions later.     http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/People-v-Clark-(1996).pdf

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43 minutes ago, michael1one said:

...here is the argument 

  • It is unlawful to carry a loaded firearm on one’s person or in a vehicle while in any public place, on any public street, or in any place where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm.(Penal Code § 12031(a)(1).) 
  • A firearm is deemed loaded when there is a live cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.  (Penal Code § 12031(g).)
  • For the purposes of Penal Code section 12023 (commission or attempted commission of a felony while armed with a loaded firearm), a firearm is deemed loaded when both the firearm and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate possession of the same person.  (Penal Code § 12034.)

So the argument goes that the ammo does not have to actually be in the gun for it to be considered loaded.  Note that the comma after the word "magazine" which imples that a loaded magazine is a loaded gun.  While this may be an argument in semantics, some of the officers of the great nation of California have arrested people using similar logic.  One example is Clark in which he arrested and charged with having a loaded firearm because he had shells in a case attached to the butt of the shotgun.  Arrest first and ask questions later.     http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/People-v-Clark-(1996).pdf

I'm pretty good with commas, but where are you making that argument?  From what you cited, the only time the ammo in the same case as the firearm counts as "loaded" is if you are in the commission of a felony.  From what I've heard all my life, it is quite common for a handgun to be stored in a locked case in a car, and a loaded magazine in the same locked case, but not in the firearm, and that is perfectly legal for normal transportation.

 

The magazine is not attached to the firearm, even if in the same case.  I have heard of someone making that argument that a having shells in the sidesaddle attached to a shotgun might meet some lawyer's definition, though.  Are you saying having a loaded magazine at all, anywhere, counts as a loaded firearm?  I think that's only in Washington, DC.

 

I will admit that I am a state-certified firearms lawyer, but only in two easy states: Nevada and Utah.  I don't think it's possible to be an expert in California.

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3 hours ago, MAC702 said:

I'm pretty good with commas, but where are you making that argument?  From what you cited, the only time the ammo in the same case as the firearm counts as "loaded" is if you are in the commission of a felony.  From what I've heard all my life, it is quite common for a handgun to be stored in a locked case in a car, and a loaded magazine in the same locked case, but not in the firearm, and that is perfectly legal for normal transportation.

 

The magazine is not attached to the firearm, even if in the same case.  I have heard of someone making that argument that a having shells in the sidesaddle attached to a shotgun might meet some lawyer's definition, though.  Are you saying having a loaded magazine at all, anywhere, counts as a loaded firearm?  I think that's only in Washington, DC.

 

I will admit that I am a state-certified firearms lawyer, but only in two easy states: Nevada and Utah.  I don't think it's possible to be an expert in California.

 

 

My sister and brother in law are lawyers in DC.  I've learned never to argue with one.  Just sharing what I have read in other posts.  Whether it is truth or myth, none of the 400 members in our gun club are putting ammo in their guns.  

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I think we are agreed on that...

2 minutes ago, michael1one said:

...none of the 400 members in our gun club are putting ammo in their guns.  

 

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If you are traveling to a competition in a country where english is not the native language it is helpful to carry an invitation or program with you (in addition to the local permits, if applicable).

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On 8/2/2015 at 7:20 PM, yellowfin said:

6. Clean your guns before flying each way, and wash your hands! (Powder residue...need I say more?)

Disassembling long guns to make them fit in shorter cases is very, very handy.

 

Speaking from experience I can tell you this doesn't matter. I rarely clean my guns, and more than once I've gone straight from the range to the airport. Since I am opt-out/alarm I get my hands swabbed every single time. I've never once set off one of their ETD machines.

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Speaking from experience I can tell you this doesn't matter. I rarely clean my guns, and more than once I've gone straight from the range to the airport. Since I am opt-out/alarm I get my hands swabbed every single time. I've never once set off one of their ETD machines.

Just wanted to say that my pelican case did set off their alarm. Granted I was shooting a comped AR in a tiny indoor range. I don’t think you need to clean your guns but clean the case.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I'm skipping this next week, simply by using someone elses when I get there. I doubt I can continue not bringing my own. I been fortunate enough to have a stored firearms at the locations of travel. Pew Pew Pew! Going to have fun for a month! Back later. Great advice.

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1 hour ago, Patrick Scott said:

Flight connections in New York with Open guns and/or PCC. How bad is it these days? 

New York and guns always reminds me of when my unit flew to Q8 on a commercial Charter. We landed At JFK for a layover /refuel and they wouldn’t even allow us off the plane because we had weapons onboard. 

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1 hour ago, Patrick Scott said:

Flight connections in New York with Open guns and/or PCC. How bad is it these days? 

The most recent report I know is from 2016, and it was still very bad. 

 

I suppose it's possible things have gotten better since then. 

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On 4/10/2017 at 9:32 PM, michael1one said:

I'm sure you won't do anything silly like fly to Cali with a gun but if you do, make sure your ammo and firearm is not in the same case.  

Flying with gun's into LAX wasn't a big deal...but I would never bother risking the ignorant TSA idiots freaking out by carrying ammo in the same case.

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A TSA agent demonstrated to me what is and isn’t acceptable regarding flimsy, “hard sided” cases. If he can open it (even when locked) and touch the gun or somehow slide the gun out from the case, it’s a no go. 

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18 hours ago, yoshidaex said:

A TSA agent demonstrated to me what is and isn’t acceptable regarding flimsy, “hard sided” cases. If he can open it (even when locked) and touch the gun or somehow slide the gun out from the case, it’s a no go. 

That’s exactly what happened to my Lt. when he checked his gun in checked baggage. The case had the holes for padlocks but he didn’t have any. He used the cable lock that comes with guns and wrapped it around the case and was able to lock it. The TSA Agent then proceeded to pull apart the case and was able to get his fingers inside and said that was unacceptable. So, Lt wrapped the cable around the case twice and with great difficulty was able to lock it. Then the TSA Agent was satisfied. 

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Fly last month...pretty seamless, but had a note in my bag that TSA checked it.  Both ways.

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We’ve flown into LAS from Toronto twice in the past 3 weeks.  Pretty easy other than the hour long wait in secondary in US preclearance in YYZ. Wasn’t the agents fault, whoever is responsible for recalling our bags off the line took forever....

 

Our process involves declaring firearms at check in, filling out the form declaration saying a) the guns are unloaded and b) no more than 11lbs of ammo then the bags go off with the regular luggage.

 

It isn’t until we get to the border agent 15-20 minutes later that we tell the agent we have guns they show me pictures of our bags and then recall the bag.  Both bags inevitably get recalled.  Problem is the last time we went was an 8am flight and it’s really busy so we took longer to get to customs and our bags got further down the line. So we wasted an hour.

 

Thankfully at a match I was told to give an extra hour when flying with guns.  Getting to the airport at 5am is a drag though.  This time the customs agent was cool and let us go once he did a quick serial # check.  Last time they “let” us through even though claimed our ATF NIA6 form was incorrectly filled out.  They had old info. The 2nd time I had printed email correspondence with the ATF agent just in case.

 

One thing I’m not sure of is if the TSA opened my 2 packs of 3 MTM ammo boxes (in 2 separate bags) I duct taped together in LAS.The tape sure looked cut.  

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