STI Eagle Doubling

[IronEqualizer]

I have an STI Eagle chambered in .45acp that has been giving me problems with doubling and hammer dropping to half cock. I just got this gun back from STI about a month ago went I sent it to them to cure the problem. They did find the hole in hammer strut slightly wallowed and replaced it as well as make some other adjustments and work the trigger. This gun is a year old. My question is does this condition have to be mechanical or could I be causing it. Only when I really speed up does this happen. I backed off in practice today to a conservative match speed shooting and the issue stopped. Prior to that trying to blaze through an array I had doubling issues 4 times and hammer follow to half cock once. Puzzled????

AL

[bkeeler]

look here this may help http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...mp;#entry960483

BK

[IronEqualizer]

Thanks that definitely gives me some other things to check. I had no idea even loose grip screws could cause such problems. I have done the hold the trigger back and pull the hammer back to feel for contact and there is none. Maybe I just need a lot more overtravel than I currently have. I believe I am true trigger slapper and trigger poundage and overtravel have never really slowed my splits down.

AL

[bkeeler]

Thanks that definitely gives me some other things to check. I had no idea even loose grip screws could cause such problems. I have done the hold the trigger back and pull the hammer back to feel for contact and there is none. Maybe I just need a lot more overtravel than I currently have. I believe I am true trigger slapper and trigger poundage and overtravel have never really slowed my splits down.

AL

You probably need more pre travel. How much pretravel do you have now?

If you have no contact with the hammer and sear hooks when doing the test(pull trigger rock hammer back and forth) you have enough over travel.

I like mine to have about .040-.045 of pretravel.

Good Luck

BK

[Chris Keen]

I have had the exact same thing happen with an STI Edge that I bought a couple yrs ago. And I had everything you guys talked about in this thread and the one linked above, except the cracked grip. I had an issue with the overtravel being too little, and after backing it out a 1/4 turn solved the problem. And another time found my hammer strut hole elongating, so replaced that and it went away.

[IronEqualizer]

Thanks that definitely gives me some other things to check. I had no idea even loose grip screws could cause such problems. I have done the hold the trigger back and pull the hammer back to feel for contact and there is none. Maybe I just need a lot more overtravel than I currently have. I believe I am true trigger slapper and trigger poundage and overtravel have never really slowed my splits down.

AL

You probably need more pre travel. How much pretravel do you have now?

If you have no contact with the hammer and sear hooks when doing the test(pull trigger rock hammer back and forth) you have enough over travel.

I like mine to have about .040-.045 of pretravel.

Good Luck

BK

Hmmm....pre travel...not sure how much but I know there is some. I am at work so really can't check right now. How is pre travel adjusted or how do you measure the amount?

AL

[IronEqualizer]

I have had the exact same thing happen with an STI Edge that I bought a couple yrs ago. And I had everything you guys talked about in this thread and the one linked above, except the cracked grip. I had an issue with the overtravel being too little, and after backing it out a 1/4 turn solved the problem. And another time found my hammer strut hole elongating, so replaced that and it went away.

Chris any idea how the heck the hammer strut hole got elonated? Seemed weird when they told me that was wrong. Did your aftermarket strut ever wear?

AL

[bkeeler]

Thanks that definitely gives me some other things to check. I had no idea even loose grip screws could cause such problems. I have done the hold the trigger back and pull the hammer back to feel for contact and there is none. Maybe I just need a lot more overtravel than I currently have. I believe I am true trigger slapper and trigger poundage and overtravel have never really slowed my splits down.

AL

You probably need more pre travel. How much pretravel do you have now?

If you have no contact with the hammer and sear hooks when doing the test(pull trigger rock hammer back and forth) you have enough over travel.

I like mine to have about .040-.045 of pretravel.

Good Luck

BK

Hmmm....pre travel...not sure how much but I know there is some. I am at work so really can't check right now. How is pre travel adjusted or how do you measure the amount?

AL

Measure the distance from the trigger to the trigger guard, then push the trigger until it hits the sear and measure again. The difference between the measurements is your pretravel.

Edit to add: To adjust the pretravel there is a tab on the front of the trigger bow that can be adjusted in or out.(in is more pretravel out is less pretravel)

BK

Edited May 22, 2009 by bkeeler

[Anthony Lombardo]

I have had the exact same thing happen with an STI Edge that I bought a couple yrs ago. And I had everything you guys talked about in this thread and the one linked above, except the cracked grip. I had an issue with the overtravel being too little, and after backing it out a 1/4 turn solved the problem. And another time found my hammer strut hole elongating, so replaced that and it went away.

Chris any idea how the heck the hammer strut hole got elonated? Seemed weird when they told me that was wrong. Did your aftermarket strut ever wear?

AL

Because they put a steel pin in a titanium strut. That doesn't last-the steel will eventually oval the Ti.

[kgunz11]

Alan, I can adjust your pretravel, and your overtravel. I will be in your neck of the woods next weekend, let me know if you want to hook up.

Before you beat yourself up about the doubling and it being all in the gun, you need to give Mike Foley @ Shooters Connection a call. He's spent more money trying to fix it than anyone I know, and he can tell you all about the problem. You might find a solution that can't be fixed by a gunsmith.

[IronEqualizer]

Yeah Bobby I would like you to take a look at it. Maybe you can elaborate more on what Mike has been through. You know I hate to have to slow down when I shoot. That could be a good excuse though.....I lost because I was shooting slow so my gun wouldn't double.

AL

edited to add........

FREEDOM GUNWORKS ROCKS!!!!

Your gonna get all my money.....or free matches forever.

Edited May 23, 2009 by IronEqualizer

[kgunz11]

LoL Alan you're too much Bro, but I appreciate it. Let me start off by saying this, I have experimented and found that more over travel is better than less. I personally don't like a lot of pretravel myself, just enough to have a little take up, but I don't want the trigger to feel like it is moving a mile before it goes off. That gives me too much time to anticipate the shot, and means my finger has to travel farther to light the fire. I'd like to put a new trigger bow in your gun, and let you try a flat trigger. I don't think that is going to solve your problem, but it most likely will make things better.

EAST ALABAMA GUN CLUB ROCKS!!!!

[IronEqualizer]

Bobby all my guns have a short flat trigger installed.

AL

[kgunz11]

But not one like this.

[kmitchl]

My Eagle in .40 did the same thing about a month ago. It is about a year old with around 2000 rounds. It was the sear spring. Don't know if this is a common problem with 2011's but had me going for a short time.

[IronEqualizer]

Alan, I can adjust your pretravel, and your overtravel. I will be in your neck of the woods next weekend, let me know if you want to hook up.

Before you beat yourself up about the doubling and it being all in the gun, you need to give Mike Foley @ Shooters Connection a call. He's spent more money trying to fix it than anyone I know, and he can tell you all about the problem. You might find a solution that can't be fixed by a gunsmith.

Bobby I will definitely need you to elaborate on this. I switched to the new Eagle today that I got from Bill and allthough it did not double I did experience hammer dropping to half cock twice. The first time was on a fairly close target hammering two quick shots. After it did it I thought it may have been a fluke so I loaded up and did a couple of bill drills. Sure enough half cock again. So what are the odds having both guns doing the same thing. My splits when this is happening are running from .13 - .15 with a .11 on the bill drill. HELP!!!!

AL

[kgunz11]

You're just going faster than the gun can handle Bro. I know of one person that MIGHT know a mechanical fix for this. He's a member of this board, and no one knows fire control components better than him. I'll give him a call, he's probably going to want one of the guns to look over, at least you have a back up now.

[IronEqualizer]

You're just going faster than the gun can handle Bro. I know of one person that MIGHT know a mechanical fix for this. He's a member of this board, and no one knows fire control components better than him. I'll give him a call, he's probably going to want one of the guns to look over, at least you have a back up now.

While I kinda wish that were true is that really possible? Can your finger out run the gun? If there really is only a MAYBE fix what is my other options? Just slow down? How can you slow down when you are trying to shoot fast? Mark was with me today when Eagle #1 doubled and then I switched guns and Eagle #2 had hammer follow. I told him after it happened that I kinda feel like when I get those wicked fast splits that my trigger finger hand loosens on the grip and my finger just spasms on the trigger. I know that is not what is happening but just the feeling. I see the sights the whole time and there is no way I could be loosening my grip that much or the gun wouldn't return. Hell man I don't know I am just thinking outloud and hoping it doesn't do it in a match.

AL

[Merlin Orr]

IMO... The is NO way you are going to "outrun" the trigger/gun. Nope. Not. Nada. Ain't happening. You ever see one empty a mag when it goes "full auto" and you will know this to be true.

Just my .02.

[IronEqualizer]

Ok Bobby thinking back all this started the month leading up to the Alabama match. The only thing I changed before all this started happening was the load. When I was testing the ammo that I had been using forever I found that I was shooting around a 180 PF and didn't even know it. I worked the load up for my 1911 and when I got the 2011 just kept cranking out the same load. I set the press and it worked so I didnt mess with it. I dropped down to 170 PF and that is when the gun started screwing up. If what you say is possible could slowing the cycle of the gun with the lighter load be the problem? And if that is it if I switched from the 230gr to 200gr then it should be even better.

AL

[IronEqualizer]

IMO... The is NO way you are going to "outrun" the trigger/gun. Nope. Not. Nada. Ain't happening. You ever see one empty a mag when it goes "full auto" and you will know this to be true.

Just my .02.

While I agree completely with what you are saying I have seen and experienced one go full auto. While I do not think me or anyone can sustain a full auto rate for an entire mag I do think it is possible for someone to pull the trigger twice, at the same rate as a full auto would be. I am not sure of the cyclic rate of a full auto .45 but I am thinking around .08 of a sec. If I or anyone else is pulling the trigger at the rate of .11 then you are coming really close to that and maybe just fast enough to cause these problems.

AL

[bkeeler]

I do not believe you are out running the gun.

Look at my post #2 and follow that link Look under gun doubling hammer falling to half cock. This gives you several reasons this may occur.

You also may have a cracked grip or loose grip screws.

BK

[IronEqualizer]

I do not believe you are out running the gun.

Look at my post #2 and follow that link Look under gun doubling hammer falling to half cock. This gives you several reasons this may occur.

You also may have a cracked grip or loose grip screws.

BK

BK I did read through and have been through all the other from your original post. Why would this be happening on two identical guns? The 2nd gun, Eagle #2 has brand new grips on it as I replaced one that was too undercut for me and I did check all the grip screws.

AL

[bkeeler]

I could not answer why it would be happening on both your guns. It could just be the over travel is out of adjustment or the sear springs are out of adjustment. Is the disconnector binding?

Are they all original parts in the guns? How many rounds through the guns before it started happening.

Just trying to help.

BK

[kgunz11]

Alan, let's give a little background for some of the folks that don't know the whole story.

Gun #1 has several thousand rounds through it. Trigger pull above 3lbs, all fire control components are up to spec and in good working order. We even increased trigger shoe return and sear pressure making the trigger in the 5lb range. The one thing I could find wrong with the gun was in the strut. It was sent back to STI and they did a complete over haul on the gun and replaced a worn strut and pin.

Gun #2 is barely broken in, like Gun #1 it is an STI Eagle chambered in .45ACP. Gun has a new grip, all screws are tight on both guns. Alan, I would bet a gold dollar you can make my gun double or follow, as you could most any gun. I don't remember the whole story about Mike and what he went through, but I will call him and get a refresher. Basically he could make any gun do it also. My finger won't move that fast, I get splits below .20's, but not down to where you do. Those are fast enough for me. You're not winning or losing the match on splits on the 1 or 2 targets in a match where you can really hammer on them.

Merlin, a gun going full auto is a mechanical failure, don't think that one could not pull the trigger too fast on a gun.

Alan, I think Benny can fix your problem, if he can't, no one can. I'll call Mike tomorrow and get refreshed on what happened to him, and the solution he found. There is a several page post on here with what he went through with his gun, and he can pick up just about any gun and make it happen. I'll see if I can find it in a search.