bullets don't go bang!

[bugsbear]

here is the dilemma.

my friend needed ammo, so i gave him 250 rounds of 9 mm.

i used remingtion 124 grain fmj bullets.

oal 1.135, winchester primers and 4.2 grains of titegroup.

he was shooting a uspsa match last week and a bullet went "poof" but the slide did not cycle.

he cleared, pulled the trigger and nothing.

he cleared again, pulled the trigger and nothing.

the so stopped him, checked the gun and there was no squib.

he reloaded and ran the stage with no other problems.

when he looked at the rounds, the bullet in the first round had moved forward, but did not come out of the case.

there was no powder in the case and the primer had lighted.

the other two rounds appeared to have light primer strikes and contained 4.2 grains of powder.

it appears the primers did not light off!

the initial thought is that i had no powder in the first round.

however, the movement of the bullet suggests that the there was powder and it burned off.

does this make sense?

the next two rounds clearly had the correct amount of powder but did not light.

the likelihood that three rounds in a row had bad primers, and everyone before and after worked fine, is small.

i also think the likelihood that the first round had no powder is remote.

any thoughts?

thanks.

nels

p.s. sorry i goofed. this should be in 9mm, but i guess it fits anywhere,

Edited May 6, 2009 by bugsbear

[Shawn Knight]

What gun? Did he have lightened springs? Were you using Small pistol or small rifle primers?

[MVZ]

My bet would be high primers (primers not being seated)

MVZ

[Shawn Knight]

What gun? Did he have lightened springs? Were you using Small pistol or small rifle primers?

My bet would be high primers (primers not being seated)

MVZ

Could be.

Also does the ammo work in your gun? What gun are you shooting them out of? What reloading press are you using? Have you had problems like this in he past when other people shoot your ammo?

[G-ManBart]

A round loaded with a primer and no powder will still have the bullet move forward in the case....often it'll get into the barrel. If there was any powder in the case it almost certainly would have moved the bullet into the barrel.

Honestly, the RO should have stopped him the second it went "poof" and he went to rack it because if the bullet had lodged in the barrel when he tried the next shot, things could have gotten very ugly. R,

[jmaass]

A round loaded with a primer and no powder will still have the bullet move forward in the case....often it'll get into the barrel. If there was any powder in the case it almost certainly would have moved the bullet into the barrel.

Honestly, the RO should have stopped him the second it went "poof" and he went to rack it because if the bullet had lodged in the barrel when he tried the next shot, things could have gotten very ugly. R,

Something I've noted with electronic muffs is that "Bang!" and "Poof!" sound about the same. I stopped wearing them back when I was ROing, although I continue wearing them in the indoor range for practice around other shooters.

[dajarrel]

It sounds to me as if the first round was a squib ("poof" and the slide didn't cycle) and your buddy was real lucky it didn't lodge in the barrel. Like

G-ManBart said, things can get ugly fast. The second two sound like classical high primers. Good dents but no bang. Inspect them closely if you still have them. They will usually still be a little high.

jmaass brought up a good point too. I've had a squib while wearing the electronic muffs. I didn't notice the difference in sound at all. The RO, however, was quick enough to stop me so I didn't screw up a barrel, or worse.

fwiw

dj

[Anubis]

So many things could have gone very very wrong in that situation.

Your friend should consider himself quite lucky and this should give

everyone a good reminder of what 'can' happen

[RiggerJJ]

the guy is really lucky, and the RO should be fired. He should have been stopped after the 1st "poof" BEFORE he could rack in another round.

Like everyone says, it sounds like the 1st round was a squib with no powder, and the others are as you say, high primers.

Usually a squib with no powder will send the bullet into the barrel, and if you fire another round behind that, the least that can happen is a badly broken gun...worst that can happen is damage to flesh...

as for your reloading, I suggest shining a light down into the case right at the bullet seating die and inspecting EACH case for powder before dropping a bullet on top...if the reloader jams or something goes crazy, once you get the problem fixed, STOP and look at each case on the shell plate and make sure its right BEFORE proceeding. if you do this religiously no more squibs will come off your loader.

As for the high primers, check the primer seating pin and be sure its seating deep enough, and make sure each up-stroke/primer seating stroke is full, (if on a 650) even to the point of double stroking.

jj

[bugsbear]

i appreciate everyone's comments.

here are some answers.

he was shooting a glock 34.

winchester small primers.

dillon 550b

no one but this guy and me have used my ammo.

i don't usually give them out.

i believe the recoil spring was standard.

he did some trigger work; however.

he has the ammo, so i will check the primers.

i don't want to think it was a squib . . . because i don't want to think it was a squib

i want to believe i am better builder.

however, i cannot rule it out.

i can also believe that was the problem.

but why would the two following rounds ftf?

after the gun was field stripped, broken down, striker removed and reset and fired, all was well?

the bullets were made a few months ago.

i have been loading montana gold for months and these were the end of my remingtons.

i have loaded 1,000s of these and have to admit i had one squibb when shooting my glock 17.

i have shot this ammo, winchester bullets and now montana gold in many guns, including the glock and sti trojan.

thanks again for the insight.

nels

[Sherwyn]

i appreciate everyone's comments.

here are some answers.

i don't want to think it was a squib . . . because i don't want to think it was a squib

i want to believe i am better builder.

however, i cannot rule it out.

i can also believe that was the problem.

but why would the two following rounds ftf?

after the gun was field stripped, broken down, striker removed and reset and fired, all was well?

thanks again for the insight.

nels

What did the primer look like on the squib round...have heard of squib loads backing primer out. If that happened, primer might have sheared into firing pin channel and cushioned the firing pin on the next rounds.

Sherwyn

Edited May 7, 2009 by Sherwyn

[G-ManBart]

What did the primer look like on the squib round...have heard of squib loads backing primer out. If that happened, primer might have sheared into firing pin channel and cushioned the firing pin on the next rounds.

Sherwyn

That's a good point...definitely a possibility. R,

[Shawn Knight]

AH HA!!! Glock with trigger work. Most likely a lighter striker spring. I have seen these not set off some primers. I myself had this problem with my G17. I have also seen this happen with other Glock models that were "worked" on.

Don't rule out the debris in the firing pin channel though.

[bugsbear]

What did the primer look like on the squib round...have heard of squib loads backing primer out. If that happened, primer might have sheared into firing pin channel and cushioned the firing pin on the next rounds.

Sherwyn

That's a good point...definitely a possibility. R,

i don't want to hear it, but i think this is the answer.

sounds like it was a squib and affected the striker.

now i have to either pull the ammo apart, or try to weigh it all.

my concern is that i only loaded 4.2 grains, so that will make it hard to determine.

sounds like the best use of this ammo is practice.

thanks for helping me solve the mystery.

nels

[gmantwo]

Sounds like the answers have been given, now for a suggestion. If you use ammo boxes, like MTM or some other, put the rounds in nose down, then it's easy to see or feel a high primer that might have slipped other inspections.