Longger than normal pause before the beep?

[steel1212]

I was reading some timer rule questions and I had something happen to me at A6, even have it on video but don't really want to call the RO out if somebody knows them. I'm getting ready to shoo the stage, get the stand by....waiting.....waiting....turn to see what is going on expecting the hand on the shoulder, timer died scenario then I get the beep. I watch the video and the RO gives the stand by with the timer by my head, then brings it down to look at it then it beeps.

I'm under the impression that the beep is suppose to happen between 1-3 seconds after stand by. If it takes longer than that as a shooter can I just stand there and wait for the RO to reissue the standby or am I on the clock at the beep regardless of how long the RO makes me wait?

[Matt Cheely]

I thought it was 1-4 seconds (too lazy to look it up).

Other than when I'm RO'ing, I don't think I've ever seen longer than a 2 second delay. Drag it out to 3-4 seconds and shooters are jumping the draw, falling over, etc. It's kind of funny. I do it on purpose so that no one can get my rhythm down. I can and do get a good sense of how long a RO will take to hit the buzzer and use that for my start. Some people do a no delay buzzer and if you're not ready for it you'll be slow getting started...

[steel1212]

I thought it was 1-4 seconds (too lazy to look it up).

Other than when I'm RO'ing, I don't think I've ever seen longer than a 2 second delay. Drag it out to 3-4 seconds and shooters are jumping the draw, falling over, etc. It's kind of funny. I do it on purpose so that no one can get my rhythm down. I can and do get a good sense of how long a RO will take to hit the buzzer and use that for my start. Some people do a no delay buzzer and if you're not ready for it you'll be slow getting started...

Lets put it this way, it was longer than 5

[kgunz11]

The rule book states 1-4 seconds per rule 8.3.3

8.3.3 “Standby” – This command should be followed by the start signal within

1 to 4 seconds.

I saw that video, and yes, you were turning around when the beep went off. I would have let you get another "are you ready...standby" if the timer didn't go off and you remained in the "start position under rule 8.3.4

8.3.4 “Start Signal” – The signal for the competitor to begin their attempt at

the course of fire. If a competitor fails to react to a start signal, for any

reason, the Range Officer will confirm that the competitor is ready to

attempt the course of fire, and will resume the range commands from

“Are You Ready?”.

[h2osport]

Time might have been set on delay, and the RO did not know. I have seen this happen. The RO thinks the timer is on instant, and waits to push the button. Then the timer delay kicks in and you get a longer delay before the beep. Usually the RO will notice the delay and say something before the beep.

Randy

[steel1212]

8.3.4 “Start Signal” – The signal for the competitor to begin their attempt at

the course of fire. If a competitor fails to react to a start signal, for any

reason, the Range Officer will confirm that the competitor is ready to

attempt the course of fire, and will resume the range commands from

“Are You Ready?”.

Guess I should have just stood there looking at him. Live and learn and now I know.

[kgunz11]

When I am running a shooter, I always check to confirm if the timer is on instant or delay before the shooter gets in the box. After "standby" I will count in my head "1...2...3 beep". I try to keep it consistent for everyone.

[BritinUSA]

I had an 8 second delay at the Europeans in Germany a few years ago. I complained but got nowhere with it. I always set the timer on instant rather than use the random delay function.

[Pat Miles]

A good RO will have checked the timer to make sure that it is set to instant. Not poor mouthing whoever, doing so is just good practice and sidesteps issues possibly like this one. Could be that the RO did not know the 1-4 second rule or just has a poor judgement of time. If it happens again just stand there and the RO should ask if you are ready. Then use 8.3.4 to have him restart you after reminding him of 8.3.3 (1-4 seconds).

You want to see confused, watch a shooter when the timer is set for a par time also. One beep and then another a few seconds later. WTF!

CYa,

Pat

[pjb45]

Something like that happen to me at last year's national. I am waiting and counting in my head around six seconds I start to creep. I mean I creep big time, my hand is at the gun and I realize the beep has not gone off, so I move my hand back to the starting position and the RO turns around and looks to the CRO, does not know what to do, then punches the button.

I was a little bugged. Yes I know I was creeping. His pause exceed 8 seconds (according to people on my squad). He did not stop me as per the rule book. All in all it was a mess.

I later talked with John A about it. John agreed that I should have been stopped and restarted.

But here is the real deal: ROs are human, they make mistakes, shooters make mistakes. I did not linger on it for too long nor make a big deal about it. The RO and I both learned something.

[steel1212]

But here is the real deal: ROs are human, they make mistakes, shooters make mistakes. I did not linger on it for too long nor make a big deal about it. The RO and I both learned something.

absolutely! I'm not trying bad mouth or complain or anything like that. I'm just looking for rule if it happens again.

[SLM]

I thought it was 1-4 seconds (too lazy to look it up).

Some people do a no delay buzzer and if you're not ready for it you'll be slow getting started...

Yep, "should be" 1 to 4 seconds from 8.3.3. If you get the "Stand by" and an instant beep just don't start. Steel1212 posted the rule, 8.3.4.

[raz-0]

I'm curious if this was a pact MK IV XP timer.

They have a bit of increadibly bad engineering pact refuses to fix. Namely that it has a HUGE buffer for shot times and strings. The downside to this is that if you are using it at a match, as more and mroe shooters are run, the longer it takes to go BEEP when on instant after you press the button. Worst we had the patience to generate was about a 7 second delay. Clearing the memory makes instant actually instant again.

Despite the ability to reproduce this at will, PACT says it is not possible.

It might not be the RO, it might be the hardware. Your description of the ROs behavior sounds a lot like what we were seeing with ROs before we figured out the issue.

[steel1212]

I'm curious if this was a pact MK IV XP timer.

They have a bit of increadibly bad engineering pact refuses to fix. Namely that it has a HUGE buffer for shot times and strings. The downside to this is that if you are using it at a match, as more and mroe shooters are run, the longer it takes to go BEEP when on instant after you press the button. Worst we had the patience to generate was about a 7 second delay. Clearing the memory makes instant actually instant again.

Despite the ability to reproduce this at will, PACT says it is not possible.

It might not be the RO, it might be the hardware. Your description of the ROs behavior sounds a lot like what we were seeing with ROs before we figured out the issue.

I think it was a CED, the one that looks like the old game boy.

[lcs]

I thought it was 1-4 seconds (too lazy to look it up).

Some people do a no delay buzzer and if you're not ready for it you'll be slow getting started...

Yep, "should be" 1 to 4 seconds from 8.3.3. If you get the "Stand by" and an instant beep just don't start. Steel1212 posted the rule, 8.3.4.

I would not "don't start" on a quick beep. You might end up with a zero on the stage. If you have your hands in your pocket and the beep happens.......different story.

[steel1212]

I thought it was 1-4 seconds (too lazy to look it up).

Some people do a no delay buzzer and if you're not ready for it you'll be slow getting started...

Yep, "should be" 1 to 4 seconds from 8.3.3. If you get the "Stand by" and an instant beep just don't start. Steel1212 posted the rule, 8.3.4.

I would not "don't start" on a quick beep. You might end up with a zero on the stage. If you have your hands in your pocket and the beep happens.......different story.

I could handle the instant beep, its happened to me several times. I don't think its very polite to get a standbybeep though. Its the ones where your waiting....waiting....turn around to see what is going onbeep.

[Hi-Power Jack]

All great info to remember.

One thing that has happened to me a couple of times

that no one has mentioned is if you do re-start the

timer, I've ended up with ridiculously long times for

my shoot - only to realize later that the RO did not

reset the timer, and got a beep 6 - 10 seconds after

the timer started counting. My total time included

the time from the first to the second beep:((

Have to make sure the RO resets the timer, not just

gets a second beep. There seems to be a difference.

[kgunz11]

Sounds like a faulty timer to me. Don't see how that could be happening.

[Dan Hefta]

I am new RO but not new to shooting, I was told that one of the worst things an RO can do is have the same cadence every time he or she has the timer beep. Our instructor told us that good shooters will anticipate the beep and not having the same cadence will stop this from happening. If I were ROing when your incident happened I would have stopped you and had you restart. 1-4 second is the rule, when you are the shooter 4 seconds could feel like 10. One thing I know for sure is "$hit happens".

[kgunz11]

As Flex said, the RO should not be a part of the problem, the course is problem enough. I'm not interested in trying to throw people with the start beep, I want everyone to have a fair chance at the COF, and that doesn't include using the timer to mess with people. It's a tool, not a toy.

[ima45dv8]

Varying the beep between 1 to 4 seconds isn't a mean RO trick (you'll get a list of those at the Level I class). It just stops people from successfully predicting your cadence and jumping the clock.

[XD Niner]

Varying the beep between 1 to 4 seconds isn't a mean RO trick (you'll get a list of those at the Level I class). It just stops people from successfully predicting your cadence and jumping the clock.

+2. I keep within the 1-4 second range but try to vary the delay for the same reason. We were told at our RO course that this is a good thing to do.

I will, however, hold off longer if the competitor is creeping or moving which often happens when the shooter tries to anticipate the buzzer. If the shooter is moving he or she must return to the proper start position before activating the timer. This avoids the procedural penalty required under 10.2.6. If it is a really long time I return to the "Are you ready?" command.

[Skizeks]

One more weird little thing that happens.

Your ROing, shooters ready to go, you look at the timer it looks ready to go.

You give AYR -- Standbynothing.

Dang the timer turned off.

It's amazing what can happen in such a short time!

Duane

[shred]

Most of the ROs at the World Shoot used the random function of the timers (CED, so they can actually be set for '1 to 4 seconds' or whatever). I guess that was to prevent accusations of favoritism or whatever, but it was a little weird, and when you got the full 4 seconds, you really knew it.