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Physics of a compensator


little_kahuna
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the reciprocating slide is one of the biggies.

Ah ha! I switched over to Tanfoglio because

the V12 has a very light slide.....

your hand sits higher than 1911

Slide sits lower on the frame than 1911

and of course ITS A NEW TOY!

or

Maybe Its all just NEW to me after shooting STI for number of years?

Nick,

You'll come back to this thread in years time and will be looking for that magic set up.

choose one style of open gun, shoot a lot, then after a while you get to see

what you like and dont like about other designs of guns. I know I learned with a soft gun and now

I have a LIGHTENING fast cycling GUN!.. I LEARN every time

I shoot the TANS compared to my STI I learn something new every match...I have both worlds! keeps me

on the edge and interested in the sport. I know the MORE holes..the more powder?? less I can shoot.

keep the gun simple and invest in a lot of CONSUMABLES(ammo) as you can. I'm getting in that stage

where the gun really doesnt matter much. If so, very little advantage as all of our guns are preety much the same.

I chose RELIABILITY over STYLE! so better keep a QUINN or CHEELY mount on your shooting bag.

SB

Edited by shooterbenedetto
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the reciprocating slide is one of the biggies.

Ah ha! I switched over to Tanfoglio because

the V12 has a very light slide.....

your hand sits higher than 1911

Slide sits lower on the frame than 1911

and of course ITS A NEW TOY!

or

Maybe Its all just NEW to me after shooting STI for number of years?

Nick,

You'll come back to this thread in years time and will be looking for that magic set up.

choose one style of open gun, shoot a lot, then after a while you get to see

what you like and dont like about other designs of guns. I know I learned with a soft gun and now

I have a LIGHTENING fast cycling GUN!.. I LEARN every time

I shoot the TANS compared to my STI I learn something new every match...I have both worlds! keeps me

on the edge and interested in the sport. I know the MORE holes..the more powder?? less I can shoot.

keep the gun simple and invest in a lot of CONSUMABLES(ammo) as you can. I'm getting in that stage

where the gun really doesnt matter much. If so, very little advantage as all of our guns are preety much the same.

I chose RELIABILITY over STYLE! so better keep a QUINN or CHEELY mount on your shooting bag.

SB

Why you think -say that the Quinn or Cheely mount is not reliable?

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the reciprocating slide is one of the biggies.

Ah ha! I switched over to Tanfoglio because

the V12 has a very light slide.....

your hand sits higher than 1911

Slide sits lower on the frame than 1911

and of course ITS A NEW TOY!

or

Maybe Its all just NEW to me after shooting STI for number of years?

Nick,

You'll come back to this thread in years time and will be looking for that magic set up.

choose one style of open gun, shoot a lot, then after a while you get to see

what you like and dont like about other designs of guns. I know I learned with a soft gun and now

I have a LIGHTENING fast cycling GUN!.. I LEARN every time

I shoot the TANS compared to my STI I learn something new every match...I have both worlds! keeps me

on the edge and interested in the sport. I know the MORE holes..the more powder?? less I can shoot.

keep the gun simple and invest in a lot of CONSUMABLES(ammo) as you can. I'm getting in that stage

where the gun really doesnt matter much. If so, very little advantage as all of our guns are preety much the same.

I chose RELIABILITY over STYLE! so better keep a QUINN or CHEELY mount on your shooting bag.

SB

Why you think -say that the Quinn or Cheely mount is not reliable?

No...Quin and Cheely mount are so reliable that you must have it on your shooting

bag. If your gun ever gets that mystery stove pipe. All you do is slap the mounts on

and just shoot!! not to mention that dot is soooo easy to see..

Edited by shooterbenedetto
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  • 4 weeks later...
Who has tried a frame mounted compensator? I saw a photo of one on Leatham's site where the comp was part of the Bianchi shroud. I'm wondering why people would use a barrel mounted comp as opposed to a frame mounted comp.

Chris

Well actually at E-TAC, we did a lot of R and D on the frame mounted comp in a lot of variations including comps on barel AND the frame simultaneously. Although the idea has merrit we could not make it work significantly better than our own comp design and it is rediculously expensive to fit and run properly.

Only a few of problems we could not solve were increased nose weight (even with Titanium components), consistent barel comp alignment, and easy to use attachment of comp to frame. Someone will probably figure it out in future but we couldn't. There are commercial varieties in service pistol such as HK that has frame mounted comp but we could not make something worthy of competition. The HK version works ok for a service pistol but not good enough for competition.

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This topic is pretty neat, been going on since Clark brought out the Pin Comps for the .45's. Every test known to man has been performed to figure out what makes a truly effective comp work.

Recoil is perceived, notice how some days the dot will figure 8, somedays it is straight up and down. It is as much the shooters physiology as the physics of the weapons system in relation to the compensator. This is why no one has designed the perfect compensator/muzzle brake. No two shooters are the same.

I am editing here since I have more time and this is easier to explaing with a rifle comp. If I take a shooter out to the range with an M4 to tune the comp to the shooter and have a milling machine to adjust/shoot/adjust. I can tune the comp with clocked ports and such till there is a balance of push forward and downward push to the point which the system will not move. Now the comp is tuned to this system; buffer, carrier, spring rates, and ammunition, etc. Any change will effect the performance.

Now, take the shooter away from the rifle for two weeks and make a major physical change in his life, say for example he starts going to the gym and puts on muscle mass, or he can not go to the gym and looses muscle mass, gets sick, etc. Put him back on the same rifle system and It will not perform the same. There is a major difference between a left hand shooter and a right hand shooter. The rifle will inherently torque up and right due to the rifleing. This torque will push the rifle up/right and away from a right hand shooter, but it pushes the rifle into a left hand shooter where it is less noticed.

It's all about how the shooter and the weapons platform interact together on any given day. It is less an issue for those shooters who are able to train consistently and over many years and have developed consistency/continuity to their presentation to the point the changes are not an issue.

There is not enough pressure in a pistol cartridge to make a compensator work effectively on pressure alone. Not like a rifle where there is enough pressure to make it dance. The weight of the comp has as much if not more benefit than the ports/pressure relationship. Basic physics; more weight equals less felt recoil. Just like in racing, we want to reduce weight for quicker response, i.e. the slide, but keep the weight where it will do the most good, forward on the barrel. Take two identical comps, one in Ti and one in 4140 and there will be more perceived muzzle flip with the Ti. Now this is the interesting point; there are people out there that will disagree with this. This is exactly my point; Recoil is perceived differently by each shooter.

Best comp designs utilize as much surface area as you can effectively and asetheticly design into it. You want the comp to push forward to counter effect the energy exiting the barrel and the felt recoil. We find that adding a very light angle 10-15 degrees in the first port will help push forward just a little better than a port perpendicular to the axis of the bore and not direct too much blast back into the scope lense.

The whole system has to be tuned: Bullet weight, powder, and especially the recoil spring. We/I run the lightest spring we can get away with as long as it will strip the rounds effectively from the magazine. Again, physiology comes into play. For me, the heavier the spring the more flip I get because it takes more force to compress the spring and that makes the pistol come up. I run a 7-8# spring in my Open Gun. If it is cold out (<51 degrees) I go to a 10# for more reliability.

This is one of the fun/great mysteries of gunsmithing. There is no perfect answer and it allows us to keep testing and having fun with designs.

Regards,

Jack

JT Engineering

Edited by Jack T
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