waxman Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Tell me, how you would answer this question, and what rule you would site. I got this one wrong, but dont think it is a very good question..The "correct answer" has very little do do with the specifics of the question -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Match Director may specify that competitors are prohibited from taking loaded sight pictures after the Make Ready command True or false, and what rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 False. Rule 3.3 This is one of those prime examples of needing to read/understand the rulebook as a cohesive whole, rather than as a collection of individual rules.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Going strictly by the rulebook, and assuming no local restrictions against it, loaded sight pictures are specifically allowed per 8.7.1: 8.7.1 A competitor is permitted to take a sight picture prior to the start signal. Such sight picture is only permitted from the “Make Ready” location. However, 3.3 Applicability of Rules: USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without the express consent of the President of USPSA. So they can be disallowed but only if mandated by local legislation or legal precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 False. Rule 3.3This is one of those prime examples of needing to read/understand the rulebook as a cohesive whole, rather than as a collection of individual rules.... Wrong with all due respect, not the rule listed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 Going strictly by the rulebook, and assuming no local restrictions against it, loaded sight pictures are specifically allowed per 8.7.1:8.7.1 A competitor is permitted to take a sight picture prior to the start signal. Such sight picture is only permitted from the “Make Ready” location. However, 3.3 Applicability of Rules: USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without the express consent of the President of USPSA. So they can be disallowed but only if mandated by local legislation or legal precedent. Ok, so are you answering T or F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 The question appears to be related to a very common misunderstanding of the USPSA rules. Prior to the bluebook, we used the IPSC rules as the foundation and had USPSA exceptions listed as "US Rule" followed by the same rule number. The IPSC rules had a number of restrictions on sight pictures (including the one you mentioned). Under those rules were US Rules which replaced the IPSC rule in question. Many shooters and ROs missed that fact and/or never noticed the US Rule which said "N/A", meaning "Not Applicable". So the sight picture restrictions, which did not apply to USPSA matches still incorrectly found their way into our game. Since we adopted the new bluebook, those US Rles were no longer necessary and the N/As were removed. The only restriction is that sight pictures can only be taken from the Make Ready location (Rule 8.7.1). This is taught in the current RO classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 Ok, the answer is False, Rule 8.7.1 I just dont understand why the question was asking about something as specific as "loaded sight pictures" , and match Directors authority, when they were only looking for The answer that you can take a loaded sight picture, if you dont move from the start location. What on earthe does that have to do with the match Director and what he can and cant do?The question sends you on a wild goose chase through the rulebook, just to come back to the rule saying you can take loaded sight pictures. For the record, I put 2.3.1.1 . This rule basically states the a "Range master" can forbit certain competitors actions. I know this is not the match director, but it was as close as I could find. Oh and define Current Ro class George. I just took your class last spring .Thanks for your reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Why not change the question to one that is easier for you to answer. You learned something here, I believe. Which seems to be the point of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 Why not change the question to one that is easier for you to answer. Sounds kinda "antagonistic" to me there flex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Going strictly by the rulebook, and assuming no local restrictions against it, loaded sight pictures are specifically allowed per 8.7.1:8.7.1 A competitor is permitted to take a sight picture prior to the start signal. Such sight picture is only permitted from the “Make Ready” location. However, 3.3 Applicability of Rules: USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without the express consent of the President of USPSA. So they can be disallowed but only if mandated by local legislation or legal precedent. Ok, so are you answering T or F My answer is, True - you may take a loaded sight picture as specifically allowed in 8.7.1 Unless there is some goofy local legality forbidding it, which is covered by 3.3. In that case, False. Clear as mud, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 It appears to me that the question is there specifically to draw attention to that very often misunderstood subject (as I mentioned earlier). Since the confusion caused by the previous IPSC/USPSA rules mix, I would think it's understandable that the current test would draw attention to this. The only rule which directly answers the question is 8.7.1. Anyone still under the incorrect impressions of the past would ultimately see the light by not finding a rule which gives the MD that kind of authority. Tests are sometimes designed to also teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 As George said...it's a good question. I've been to 3 Majors where it's come up with me, personally. (Two of those were at the Nationals. Same CRO...different years. ). Waxman...sorry...just being a smartass. No antagonism meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 No prob Flex. The rest of the test was pefect, and all answers came almost vebatum out of the Blue book. This one here didnt, so I spent alot of time trying to find the perfect answer, Which i failed at. I guess I was thinking the question was leaning more towards what authority a Match Director had, instead of any rule related to loaded or unloaded sight pictures. I now am prety clear about the whole sight picture issue, so i guess something was learned. Thanks for all that posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 On top of that...now we know that the MD can't make up local rules either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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