Step-up increments in powder?

[bball97]

I just got my RL550B set up and have started reloading 38 Special with 231 powder, Ranier 125 Flat nose Plated bullets. I have started with the minimum powder charge of 3.9 grains recommended in the Lyman handbook. What weight increments would you recommend that I increase the charge by as I work up to a more powerful load?

[Sarge]

I just got my RL550B set up and have started reloading 38 Special with 231 powder, Ranier 125 Flat nose Plated bullets. I have started with the minimum powder charge of 3.9 grains recommended in the Lyman handbook. What weight increments would you recommend that I increase the charge by as I work up to a more powerful load?

.1

[h2osport]

Are you trying to make a specific power factor(pf)? If so then I recommend going to a manual and finding the load that will give you the closest velocity to what you want. Then start .1 grain under that and test. Adjust according to how close to the velocity you want to reach. If you are close or right on, then go up .1 grain and test again.

For 125pf I show 1000fps for the necessary velocity. Your minimum charge is showing about 876fps. I personaly would start this load at about 4.5 grains and then adjust from there.

I have never started my load at the minimum recommended charge, as I always need a higher velocity.

Randy

[goneracin]

One other thing that works well for me. I do not just weigh a single charge to set my powder too. I will weigh 10 and average. IOW if I want 4.2 gr, I will shoot for 42 gr/10 charges. Seems you can drive yourself crazy trying to set your drop to a single charge.

[LarryP]

One other thing that works well for me. I do not just weigh a single charge to set my powder too. I will weigh 10 and average. IOW if I want 4.2 gr, I will shoot for 42 gr/10 charges. Seems you can drive yourself crazy trying to set your drop to a single charge.

I usually put 4 or 5 in, then average, but 10 is better, I guess. I usually use 10 completed cartridges to get

average OAL and weight if I need it.

LP

[bball97]

One other thing that works well for me. I do not just weigh a single charge to set my powder too. I will weigh 10 and average. IOW if I want 4.2 gr, I will shoot for 42 gr/10 charges. Seems you can drive yourself crazy trying to set your drop to a single charge.

Thank you. Here is a dumb question: What does OAL mean? I have seen it several times now.

[goneracin]

One other thing that works well for me. I do not just weigh a single charge to set my powder too. I will weigh 10 and average. IOW if I want 4.2 gr, I will shoot for 42 gr/10 charges. Seems you can drive yourself crazy trying to set your drop to a single charge.

Thank you. Here is a dumb question: What does OAL mean? I have seen it several times now.

Overall length. Dont sweat asking questions, everyone learns somehow.

The only dumb question is the one you dont ask, right before you f*** something up.

[DogmaDog]

Lately I've been loading .40 for production, so I've actually had to go below published starting loads, but I load several candidates with 0.2 grain increments between them, and then test. I think you could even go 0.3 until you're within half a grain of the max published load.

I make samples of at least 3 loads, and hope I bracket the velocity I'm looking for (so at least one candidate is faster, and one is slower)...if I don't I plot the data in Excel and use a linear regression to predict the charge I'll need to make my target velocity. Works fine, as I'm not too too picky about the exact velocity I need.

DD

[JThompson]

One other thing that works well for me. I do not just weigh a single charge to set my powder too. I will weigh 10 and average. IOW if I want 4.2 gr, I will shoot for 42 gr/10 charges. Seems you can drive yourself crazy trying to set your drop to a single charge.

Thank you. Here is a dumb question: What does OAL mean? I have seen it several times now.

Overall length. Dont sweat asking questions, everyone learns somehow.

The only dumb question is the one you dont ask, right before you f*** something up.

We'd much rather have you ask then see you on the "injured reserve' having had a gun blow up in your hand.

[Duane Thomas]

Honestly in my experience there's so little velocity difference between loads in .1 grain increments it's not even worth testing. When working up a load I increase powder charge .2 grains at a time.

[Boats]

You get a feel for increments as you gain experence. Faster powders need small steps slower you can make larger jumps. I rarely start at the mimimum though particulary in a gun I am familar with and componets that I have used before. Something tried and proven like 231 in a strong 9mm pistol will go right to recomended load.

Be aware that some powders "spike" That is if you were able to plot the pressure on a graph they would show a steep increase as they reach maximum instead of straight line progression. Get near the maximum and small things like more crimp can cause pressure signs to appear.

For this reason I always use moderate loads and don't push the envelope. Most match shooting you don't need maximum loads to make power factors. Need more power I get a bigger gun.

Boats

[kevin c]

Honestly in my experience there's so little velocity difference between loads in .1 grain increments it's not even worth testing. When working up a load I increase powder charge .2 grains at a time.

I do the same.

Since every barrel/bullet type/brass brand/primer manufacturer is diffferent, I usually start .4 less and go .4 over the load recipe I am trying out. If any of the above includes an unknown, I start even lower. I load five of each and run them over the chrono, recovering and inspecting the brass.

Once I'm in the ball park, I'll load 10 or 20 at the target powder charge, and also at a tenth above and below, and run those over the chrono.

Of course, this is just for velocity evaluation - accuracy and reliable feeding/functiion in the gun are entirely different issues.

I have never blown up a gun, save once, and that was when I was green and didn't do any of the above...

[Boats]

One more thing to think about when inspecting brass. Not all brass reacts the same way to pressure. The case expands on ignition grabs the sides of the chamber then springs back as pressure drops. Something with a long case like the 38 special or 357 have a lot more grab and less likely to slide back against the breech flattening the primer. And guns chambered for the 38 are not as strong either. Your revolver may well be a .357 using 38 loads but if a regular .38 some are not real strong I don't consider my straight 38's ,Victory model ,M 10 2 inch & M 36 3 inch to be good for max charges. M 28 will take it fine.

In other words 9's and 45' show pressure pretty easy. long straight cases hide pressure signs.

Boats

Edited April 21, 2009 by Boats

[bball97]

One more thing to think about when inspecting brass. Not all brass reacts the same way to pressure. The case expands on ignition grabs the sides of the chamber then springs back as pressure drops. Something with a long case like the 38 special or 357 have a lot more grab and less likely to slide back against the breech flattening the primer. And guns chambered for the 38 are not as strong either. Your revolver may well be a .357 using 38 loads but if a regular .38 some are not real strong I don't consider my straight 38's ,Victory model ,M 10 2 inch & M 36 3 inch to be good for max charges. M 28 will take it fine.

In other words 9's and 45' show pressure pretty easy. long straight cases hide pressure signs.

Boats

Good info, I am shooting a Ruger Security Six 357, & a S&W M&P 340 357 J frame. (pocket cannon/palm smacker!)

[jasond]

I go in .2 steps also for pistol, .5 in big cartriges, but I'll just load the max for .38s to be used in a .357. The guns are built for double the pressure a .38 has.

Plated bullets like the Raniers can be finicky, I use the 158 round nose for .38 short colt, and they aren't particularly accurate. Your .38 special dies most likely roll crimp, which can cut the plating and give very poor accuracy. I crimp the .38 shorts with a 9mm taper crimp die, and then all I do is remove the flare.

Lead or jacketed bullets have a "cannelure" groove to crimp into, which sets the OAL. The measurement doesn't matter.

What is the load for? I can give you some that work in my SP101 or 627. W231 should work great.

[Boats]

What works for me with two kinds of 38's big and strong like the M 28 and light and not as strong like 36's and my old Victory model is to use the same charge but different bullets. This simplifies powder measure settings. Have switched all revolvers to Clays because of the cleaner burn which helps speed re-loads. Still use W 231 in Automatics, 9mm & 45 acp

38 target loads I use 3.2 gr clays under a 158 gr rn for Club revolver matches, we shoot a modified IDPA-ICORE match that does not have a power factor. Doubt it would make IDPA power factor in SSR. 3.2 works good not too light not too strong. 60 shots and the cartridges still drop right in no sticking. Load same charge but a 125 gr rn for the Snubnose revolvers & Victory.

The lighter bullet has a lot less recoil in light guns. I also have a 342 Ti cylinder .38 and the 125's are pleasant to shoot for practice. That load would work good in your 340.

Boats

[bball97]

I go in .2 steps also for pistol, .5 in big cartriges, but I'll just load the max for .38s to be used in a .357. The guns are built for double the pressure a .38 has.

Plated bullets like the Raniers can be finicky, I use the 158 round nose for .38 short colt, and they aren't particularly accurate. Your .38 special dies most likely roll crimp, which can cut the plating and give very poor accuracy. I crimp the .38 shorts with a 9mm taper crimp die, and then all I do is remove the flare.

Lead or jacketed bullets have a "cannelure" groove to crimp into, which sets the OAL. The measurement doesn't matter.

What is the load for? I can give you some that work in my SP101 or 627. W231 should work great.

I am loading these just for target practice. The 4.9, 5.0 & 5.1 Gr. of 231 seemed to be the most accurate, and didn't spank very much at all. This was the first time I fired the M&P 340 since I put on the new Eagle Secret Service Ebony grips. Sweet feel! This gun is double action only and I was shooting low for the most part. As I got closer to the max load of 5.1 my groupings went from 6-8 inches down to 2-4 inches at 7 yards. After I got finished testing all the .38 rounds, my buddy came in and let me shoot his 40 cal Glock. I fired 6 out of 12 in the bullseye. Uh-oh, could that be my next obsession? Reload to save money, yeah right! Thank the Lord for a good job!

[jasond]

My snubbies seem to prefer hotter loads, but I don't use anything lighter that 148 wadcutters.

Lighter bullets will shoot lower to the sights than heavier ones. My 640 and sp101 both shoot light bullets below the sights, they both shoot 158s where they are supposed to @25 yards.

[bball97]

My snubbies seem to prefer hotter loads, but I don't use anything lighter that 148 wadcutters.

Lighter bullets will shoot lower to the sights than heavier ones. My 640 and sp101 both shoot light bullets below the sights, they both shoot 158s where they are supposed to @25 yards.

Great, thanks for the info. I was thinking about trying some 158 gr. round nose flat point lead bullets from S&S Castings. I just called him, and he said they have plenty.

[jasond]

Give some wadcutters a try if you can find any, either double ended or hollow base. They're very likely the most accurate bullet you'll ever try in a 38, and they have very little recoil as the standard target load is only about 7-800 fps.

I've never heard of S&S castings, but 158 rnfp should work well enough. 231 should be perfect for either of these.