"Illegal" Stages in a Level I Match

[Graham Smith]

I've shot a few Level I matches that included what I now understand to be illegal stages (for example, a stage with mozambique scoring). Am I correct in my understanding that, with the exception of Classifiers, Level I matches can be much more flexible in what they do, as long as no safety rules are violated?

[Aristotle]

Not sure I understand "mozambique" scoring. Is that when you make the head and body two seperate targets? If so, that is not legal even in a Level 1.

We are allowed to do other things like use of Boxes in short/med stages, more than 32 rounds in a field course, etc. But it's still not exactly a free for all.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Aristotle

[Alan Meek]

If it is USPSA Level 1 match, they are supposed to follow the current USPSA rules. There are some exceptions for certain rules and how they are applied at a USPSA Level 1 match.

That said, if a club that is holding a USPSA Level 1 match is making a best effort to put forth legal stages, those times that they setup an illegal stage is a great opportunity to help the club become better at designing stages. By working with them to learn from setting up an illegal stage.

On the other hand if a club is consistently an deliberately designing and setting up illegal stages that is the time for the Section Coordinator, and Area Director to start get involved to reach a resolution.

[davecutts]

From my experience as a level one match director everyone is quick to bitch be not so quick to come help. That said I do my best to set up free style stages.

[open17]

The rule everyone seems to cite as the "you can do anything at a level I match" is

1.1.5.1

1.1.5 Freestyle – USPSA matches are freestyle. Competitors must be permitted

to solve the challenge presented in a freestyle manner, and to shoot

targets on an “as and when visible” basis. Courses of fire must not

require mandatory reloads nor dictate a shooting position, location or

stance, except as specified below. However, conditions may be created,

and barriers or other physical limitations may be constructed, to compel

a competitor into shooting positions, locations or stances.

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or

when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify

mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a

long course).

It's intent (I think) was to allow restrictions in the WSB for clubs that maybe didn't

have a lot of props. "targets x,y,z must be shot from box", or "all steel must be

engaged through port A", or "moving targets must be activated before engaging"

are permitted at level I by 1.1.5.1.

It DOES NOT allow the MD to just toss the rule book out the window! No, you can't

do mozambique scoring. No, you can't apply miss/FTE penalties on a disappearing

target. Hmmm. Starting to sound like Vinny the Bean. I'll quit now.

[George Jones]

It's intent (I think) was to allow restrictions in the WSB for clubs that maybe didn't

have a lot of props. "targets x,y,z must be shot from box", or "all steel must be

engaged through port A", or "moving targets must be activated before engaging"

are permitted at level I by 1.1.5.1.

It DOES NOT allow the MD to just toss the rule book out the window! No, you can't

do mozambique scoring. No, you can't apply miss/FTE penalties on a disappearing

target. Hmmm. Starting to sound like Vinny the Bean. I'll quit now.

Having been involved in those discussions, I can confirm that the intent was to make it easier for clubs to host Level I matches when props or set-up help is less than adequate. USPSA wants its clubs to succeed and realizes that some of them need some logical rules relief. The old rule was so abused as to have become meaningless. The updated wording was meant to be more specific as to what is allowed and avoid the "throw the book away" approach.

And yes, all those allowances were intended to only apply to short and medium courses, not to long courses (the comma was an editing oversight).

[JThompson]

And yes, all those allowances were intended to only apply to short and medium courses, not to long courses (the comma was an editing oversight).

Is there something official on that George, because I know there is some question among the RMI about said rule.

[George Jones]

And yes, all those allowances were intended to only apply to short and medium courses, not to long courses (the comma was an editing oversight).

Is there something official on that George, because I know there is some question among the RMI about said rule.

I can only relate my recollection. Anything official which says otherwise will have to come from the man in charge.

In which case, I would probably have to change my memory module.

[JThompson]

And yes, all those allowances were intended to only apply to short and medium courses, not to long courses (the comma was an editing oversight).

Is there something official on that George, because I know there is some question among the RMI about said rule.

I can only relate my recollection. Anything official which says otherwise will have to come from the man in charge.

In which case, I would probably have to change my memory module.

We had this discussion months ago and I'm pretty sure he said, all the above, but I know there are some who disagree. It's one I'd like to see a ruling on so us CRO/ROs, can be consistent in our application. Right now you have some reading it one way and others another. The two sides are pretty adamant about their view. I think the only way to put this to bed is to get the ruling body involved and clarify the rule officially.

If you want to run it through the process I would appreciate it...

JT

[VegasOPM]

As a Level 1 Match Director, I try to put on legal stages insofar as possible. The truth is that I do use boxes and arranged shooting positions in order to minimze set up and tear down time from time to time. I also use "virtual walls" and caution tape or painted fault lines too. I'm already there 2 hours early and 1 hour later than the match setting up and tearing down. When even 20% of the competitors show up early to help set up, I'll make the match more freestyle.

[lugnut]

As a Level 1 Match Director, I try to put on legal stages insofar as possible. The truth is that I do use boxes and arranged shooting positions in order to minimze set up and tear down time from time to time. I also use "virtual walls" and caution tape or painted fault lines too. I'm already there 2 hours early and 1 hour later than the match setting up and tearing down. When even 20% of the competitors show up early to help set up, I'll make the match more freestyle.

Without some flexibility in the rules for L1 matches for these reasons, burn out could be a bigger problem. I hope USPSA takes that into consideration when they correct the "comma" issue. Personally- as someone who competes and has run a bunch of matches in other action shooting sports- it make no difference to me whether I have to shoot from a box or have walls and barriers to make me move. But heck, I'm still relatively new to USPSA.

[lugnut]

And yes, all those allowances were intended to only apply to short and medium courses, not to long courses (the comma was an editing oversight).

Is there something official on that George, because I know there is some question among the RMI about said rule.

I can only relate my recollection. Anything official which says otherwise will have to come from the man in charge.

In which case, I would probably have to change my memory module.

Having gone to your RO class recently... I am certain your recollection is accurate.

[Nik Habicht]

I've run a local match for ~ 5 years, and I've been designing and building stages for ~6.5 years now. We try pretty hard (and mostly succeed) to build freestyle stages that follow the rules precisely.....

That said, we've had to make adjustments for safety (ice on the ground), for range conditions (when instead of five pits, flooding cut us down to 3, two of which were only partly playable), and in one memorable instance, because a stage designer drew up something so complicated (five movers activated in succession by a door opening) that nothing other than the doorway got built by the time we needed to start shooting. We simply ran out of time for building/debugging that morning....) Grand total might have been a dozen stages in five years or so, not too bad, considering that in that time frame we built ~300 stages.....

[Aristotle]

Having gone to your RO class recently... I am certain your recollection is accurate.

Funny thing, I was also in Georges RO class just recently and was thinking the same thing.

I really enjoyed watching some of his funny videos after break.

[Vulture]

We have this problem in the winter up here because it is impossible to pound posts in the ground for walls. We don't have wall sections that are free standing. We usually have fabric (weedblock) attached to 2x2's that attach to posts we pound in the ground. So in the winter we have courses that could be named "illeagle as hell" and "Illeagle as hell II" Most people understand we are making the best of a bad situation but some have a hard time letting go. We try to stay as leagle as possible but sometimes you have to put language in or movement restrictions or whatever that make a course technically illeagle.

[Graham Smith]

As a Level 1 Match Director, I try to put on legal stages insofar as possible.

Thanks to all. This really clears things up for me. I've seen stages that are challenging and stick to the rules and those that are challenging and don't.

On Sunday, I shot a match in Central Jersey (NJ) and must say that a lot of thought and work went into the stages. They were uniformly challenging and a lot of fun. Great use of barriers and a mix of targets created a couple really nice "run & gun" stages. And some really creative shooting solutions that allowed the really good shooters to make the most of their skills without denying the lesser shooters a reasonable solution (although my side still hurts from one leaning shot I had to make). It was a 3 hr drive round trip but well worth it.

P.S. I had never shot here before and didn't know these folks from Adam, but they were all willing to give me suggestions on how to best shoot the courses. Kudos to all.

Edited April 13, 2009 by Graham Smith