Match Design Epiphany

[VegasOPM]

Well I am kind of new to being the MD for my local club. I had a bit of an epiphany this last weekend... namely, my stage designs are hard. Lots of long, tight shots (drawing on 25yd 8" steel targets)... beaucoup hard cover... no shoots galore... movers.... Basically, it was geared towards accuracy and not beginner friendly. We had plenty of new shooters for the match, and I'm afraid that I might have freaked them out a bit. I want to challenge myself and the other high level shooters in the club, without leaving the rest of the shooters frustrated.

On the plus side, the Open shooters love it....

[atbarr]

IMHO, you need to have a mix. The newbe might not come back. Set your stages so everyone has fun.

A.T.

Well I am kind of new to being the MD for my local club. I had a bit of an epiphany this last weekend... namely, my stage designs are hard. Lots of long, tight shots (drawing on 25yd 8" steel targets)... beaucoup hard cover... no shoots galore... movers.... Basically, it was geared towards accuracy and not beginner friendly. We had plenty of new shooters for the match, and I'm afraid that I might have freaked them out a bit. I want to challenge myself and the other high level shooters in the club, without leaving the rest of the shooters frustrated.

On the plus side, the Open shooters love it....

[Sherwyn]

Well I am kind of new to being the MD for my local club. I had a bit of an epiphany this last weekend... namely, my stage designs are hard. Lots of long, tight shots (drawing on 25yd 8" steel targets)... beaucoup hard cover... no shoots galore... movers.... Basically, it was geared towards accuracy and not beginner friendly. We had plenty of new shooters for the match, and I'm afraid that I might have freaked them out a bit. I want to challenge myself and the other high level shooters in the club, without leaving the rest of the shooters frustrated.

On the plus side, the Open shooters love it....

You really don't need those things to challenge high level shooters, usually they will step on the gas and create thier own hazard.

Try to leave lots of options, leave room for the new shooter to get clsoer to the targets while others might want to stay back and save time.

Some of my worst USPSA memories are from watching new shooters empty thier guns on a long steel shot. A mike on paper is much easier on a new shooter than not being able to hit steel while they feel everyone is watching.

Just my .02

Sherwyn

[SA Friday]

I have a reputation of using a lot of black and white in my stage designs. I rarely get that my stages are too hard, even from new shooters. If they ever shoot a major match they will thank you for putting all that black and white out there.

If you feel that there is too much, you can really dictate the difficulty and flow of the stage by adding a NS or hard cover to the transition targets, the target most likely to be engaged when transitioning to that shooting location. Conversely, leaving the transition target fully open for really fast engagement can speed up the shooting flow throught the various locations.

In the end, the new shooters need to see the hard cover and no shoots in the stages. If they can't disregard the barriers and aim small, they will not progress in their shooting.

I think one can make a stage too hard, but you really have to work at it. If you can't hit a half target at 25 yards, you are going to tank about half a dozen classifiers regularly.

[Flexmoney]

My mantra for this is...

Know Your Customers

With that, design for the pack.

The newbie won't care as much if the match is too hard...they won't know the difference. (you still might loose them). Going after hard stages to get the upper-level shooters...than DOES kill off the mid-level shooters that have been around the block.

[Flexmoney]

One thing I like to suggest is for Match Directors and Stage Designers to look through past match results of their work and see what they can tell. Are the hf's low? High? Lots and lots of penalties?

[JThompson]

Well I am kind of new to being the MD for my local club. I had a bit of an epiphany this last weekend... namely, my stage designs are hard. Lots of long, tight shots (drawing on 25yd 8" steel targets)... beaucoup hard cover... no shoots galore... movers.... Basically, it was geared towards accuracy and not beginner friendly. We had plenty of new shooters for the match, and I'm afraid that I might have freaked them out a bit. I want to challenge myself and the other high level shooters in the club, without leaving the rest of the shooters frustrated.

On the plus side, the Open shooters love it....

You really don't need those things to challenge high level shooters, usually they will step on the gas and create thier own hazard.

Try to leave lots of options, leave room for the new shooter to get clsoer to the targets while others might want to stay back and save time.

Some of my worst USPSA memories are from watching new shooters empty thier guns on a long steel shot. A mike on paper is much easier on a new shooter than not being able to hit steel while they feel everyone is watching.

Just my .02

Sherwyn

I agree... as a new designer I fell into the same trap and an old hand set me straight on it. Thanks Ron, if you're reading. You don't have to make them all stand and blast, but you can do neat thing like have a long shot that you can move forward on should you choose. Make the shooter try and figure which is going to be faster. If you did your job well it will be close. Take it easy on the friggn NS targets... I think they are not needed in high numbers.

JT

[Coach]

I think a match should have a mix. Stages that require speed, stages that require accuracy, stages that are up close and in your face and some that require distance shots. No shoots and hard cover have their place, but are not necessary in order to make the match challenging.

[shred]

The best shooters always challenge themselves and each other on time and points, no matter if it's a no-shoot distance-fest or a stage of 3 open targets at 10 yards like El Presidente.

The problem is the 'fun factor' can go way down on overly difficult stages.

The Texas Star is a good example. New shooters often struggle mightily with it just sitting still by itself. Good shooters can rip through it after a while. So then the MD throws a pile of no-shoots around it or starts it spinning or whatever to 'make it harder' or 'slow down the fast shooters', but you know what? They're still in the same order on the score sheet at the end of the day, except there's now a lot more zeros down at the bottom of the page.

Now I'm not saying every Star should be sitting still by itself, variety is fun too, but highlighting the need for moderation and 'accessibility' of the stages, for lack of a better word.

Look at the high (and median) hit factors and make sure you aren't going way outside what's 'normal' (HHFs at most majors are in the 8-12 range on most stages) and have fun.

[larry cazes]

and have fun.

We often forget these three very important words when setting up stages. If I wanted training instead of a fun weekend day in the sun, I would have signed up for it.

[NickJ]

and have fun.

We often forget these three very important words when setting up stages. If I wanted training instead of a fun weekend day in the sun, I would have signed up for it.

Yep. Think of yourself as an entertainer. Your customers are paying to have a good time, give it to them and they'll return for more.

[VegasOPM]

I have the stages ready for my match tomorrow. Still challenging, but more choices- "long shot, no movement or movement with shorter shot".

[kimel]

I like to do some change of tempo stuff in longer stages. Some close in, wide open targets and then a couple tight shots and then some more easy stuff, rinse, repeat.

Give the shooter as many decisions to make on their own as you can. Variety is the spice of life and it also allows folks to create their own way to run the course. Few things are more boring than a field course with only one way to run it. I know, I have designed a ton of those myself but have now taken a vow to not do that anymore.

I think all new stage designers go toward evil when they start out. Once they are covered in tar and feathers, burned in effigy and run out of town on a rail they learn to moderate their designs to provide something for everyone.

When I have time to get in some practice I set up stages to run. I run it a couple times, move things around a bit and run it some more. When I was doing a lot of this it was REALLY helping me improve on how I performed on field courses. It also had the side benefit of helping me understand how to design better field courses.

This doesn't mean you can't toss in some evil now and then, of course.

Flex has a good point about losing the middle ground shooters.

[Matt Cheely]

Don't totally leave out hard stages, mix it up, but don't dumb it all down.

[fasteddy]

It should be a mix stage design that any level of shooters will think of and most importantly enjoy the course of fire..and should provide friendly atmosphere.!

[RiggerJJ]

IMHO the most important element in stage design is choices. (of course most of the stand & blast shorts can't really have choices, but sometimes...) go left, or go right? shoot the steel long or closer? take that one with a NS here, or here? the choices have to be designed in so that there is NO clear choice that is more adventageous, the shooter must deside according to his perceived strengths and weaknesses.

to me the most agravating thing to see is a major match having all stages just the opposite; no choices... everyone runs each stages the same, then the match just turns into a foot race, the speediest is the winner. hardly a test of overall shooting abilities.

jj

[Nik Habicht]

(of course most of the stand & blast shorts can't really have choices, but sometimes...)

Oh, I don't know --- Larry Houck at the Summer Blast became the mad genius of the 8 shot "Make Your Choice" stages --- typically by incorporating multiple movers. That might mean multiple activators, so knowing what you could get done in a certain time frame became pretty important....

There was typically a safe way, and a way to score well.....

....and disaster was known to strike on occasion.....

Big fun!

[Chris iliff]

Geez, my club shot a 5 stage match today and it was full of stuff. Stage 2 had two swingers, stage 3 had a Texas star and a glider that moved at least 12 yards, stage 4 had 2 drop turners, and stage 5 had several small poppers and 8" plates at 12 yard or more. I never thought about a stage being easy or hard in relation to getting shooters to return. One guy used all the ammunition on him and didn't complete a stage. What to do......gosh, I don't think you do anything. Shooters will return if they want. My club spends the time with the new faces and goes overboard making them feel comfortable and welcome. The desire to emulate what they see comes from within themselves. Easy/hard has no bearing on their desire. If, to steal a phrase, it was "dumbed down", what happens to that shooter when he encounters the "smarted up" version. There is always a variety of shooters, pull out the props and gadgets and set it up. Don't give it any thought. Build a reputation of being a club with good challenging stages, even difficult if you will, and you'll get the shooters. IMHO.

We generally do 2 long, a medium, a short(speed shoot), and of course a classifier.

I whined to a Master shooter years ago about the difficulty of his matches and his reply. "When people come and shoot here every month they will see about everything. Nothing at a sectional, Area, or National will scare them." I think he was right. This guy set a Texas star behind a barricade and only the bottom 2 plates where visible. I thought then what an a-hole, now what a genius!

[matt2ace]

I agree that the stages should all be challenging, but allow for all levels of skill to have fun. A good monthly match should also mix long, med, and short stages. I try to shoot for a per stage average of 20-22 rounds (6 stage match at 120-130 total shots).

I tend to design my stages with no more than one mover and focus more on transitions using steel, HC and NS. Putting multiples movers on one stage is fine, but having movers on every stage tends to discourage some shooters. It's OK to have a 'hoser stage' once it while too.

One thing I have found using HC is to make the amount of HC on a target inverse to the distance from the shooter. Very close targets with a lot of HC and longer distance with less. It's the fact that the target has HC on it that creates the mental challenge for many shooters. For newer shooters, putting a close target with a lot of HC challenges them to slow-down and be accurate whereas the high-skill shooters work to be accurate at speed. I tend to use movers to drive problem solving skills.....placing the targets to give shooters multiple transition options for shooting it fast.

A close in drop-turner with hard-cover (scoring zone down the middle) can be very challenging to all skill levels.

Edited April 16, 2009 by matt2ace

[IL-SIG]

I am not an MD, but thought I would share my thoughts/observations:

1) The stage should be fun. Most of us participate in this sport because we enjoy shooting and want to improve our own abilities. No offense to the top shooters, but most of us (especially at local matches) are not trying to feed our families by shooting.

2) Make people think. In my opinion, this is a thinking man's/woman's sport. While just standing around and shooting paper or steel targets can be fun, making a person develop a strategy will challenge every level shooter and will also help them improve their own skills. A stage should have multiple potential solutions. Each person should be able to develop what strategy works best for their skills sets.

3) Keep the guidelines to a minimum. Meaning, the best stages are those that say, "starting within the shooting area, engage all targets as they become visible." Let a shooter start anyplace they want, then plan how they will attack the stage. This helps take care of both #1 and #2 above.

4) Encourage risk taking to challenge the shooter. I like when I can choose to take a long shot or move to a closer location. Make the shooter decide; do I want to save time, but risk not getting an A, or should I take the additional time to move to a closer location where I am more confident in my ability to get the A.

5) I realize it is more difficult to set up, but please include swingers, drop-turners, stars, etc. If you only shoot short-range paper targets, you are doing a dis-service to most shooters when they do go to a major. While I certainly understand there is a difference between a local and a major match, help your shooters develop their skills for when they do compete at a higher level. Plus, if you can shoot a swinger and get your A's, you certainly can hit a non-moving target.

6) Mind-games are fair game! Adding crazy requirements that distract the shooter is part of the game. As long as someone does not get an unfair advantage, this is part of the game. The only purpose of these requirements is to make your brain think about something other than shooting. For example, "how am I expected to quickly retrieve my gun from a desk drawer, plus all my mags, and still engage all these targets." This encourages various types of gun-handling, which is good. We should do something other than just draw and shoot.

7) If possible to do so safely, vary the height of targets. All paper targets should not be the the same. Some low, some high, some middle of the road will make a stage more challenging and will make the shooter change their visual pickup of the various targets. Also, prone shooting is very rare, but can add a unique challenge.

Again, I am not an MD and don't profess to know everything about our sport - however, I just wanted to share some observations.

Respectively submitted...

[spddrcr]

What's up guy's, im new to the site and still pretty new to shooting matches. at the club i shoot at the MD ask's for volunteers to set up stages and i agreed to do one. being new to shooting matches, but being a shooter for most of my life i knew what i wanted in a stage and what would be fun for me, but not generally new shooter friendly, so i adjusted the stage so that on one part where there is a long box that is angled and you have to stay in to shoot down 5 PP's, a new shooter can take their time and line up their shot's while all the advanced shooters can make it a run and gun situation, but there are 2 NS behind the pp's so it makes it a little more challenging for everybody.

we have lots of new shooters at the club i shoot at so it's exactly as so many have already said, we want to see those shooters again

by the way great site with lots of info.

[Poppa Bear]

We shot a match today that I think all shooters enjoyed.

Stage 1: Path down middle while engaging targets to the left, the right, and finally at the end. All targets were in the open with walls separating arrays, and we still had targets missed because the shooters were fixated elsewhere and went right by them. Plan your targets order and stick with it.

Stage 2: Long run & gun, plan your reloads, stick to that plan, DO NOT miss the steel at the end or your time will suffer.

Stage 3: A LOT of vision barrier forcing the shooter to take targets to the left, right, or middle while moving in an 8' by 8' shooting area. Which targets are visible from each location, DID you already engage it? Are you sure you engaged it? Several late shots as they realized they had not engaged it.

Stage 4: Small shooting area with 3 arrays, one through a port. What is the quickest way to shoot the COF? Where do you reload?

None of the stages was all that complicated. None required complicated or contorted shooting positions. ALL made you think, and if you blew your plan everyone noticed the hiccup. If you blew your reload, everyone noticed. If you had a good plan and stuck to it, everyone noticed. No stage had a simple everyone shoot it this way solution.

[Vlad]

I've never heard a new shooter complain that stages are too hard, then generally seems to think hard interesting challenges are fun. Of course, to them everything is a hard and interesting. It is the regulars with bad backs that complain when you make them shoot spinning stars from cooper tunnels.

[jar]

From what I've seen, the mark of stages that people of all skill levels have liked is choices. My favorite stages are the ones where after shooting them, I want to set them up in practice and run them on the timer 5 different ways and see which one is faster.

[joecichlid]

My mantra for this is...

Know Your Customers With that, design for the pack.

+11 on that. I always try to keep the shooters, old and new, on their toes without making things hard from start to finish. Sometimes I will start off with some wide open stuff to get them going fast then throw in one or two tight targets to chance the pace up then go back and forth a few times during a stage. Another thing is to not just do 8 rounds here, 8 rounds there, another 8 rounds from way over there. Try doing something like 3, 5, 4, 6, 5, 7 or something like that. Keep things moving and make the shooters think a little about ammo managment as well as making sure they get all the targets. But at the same time don't go too far, this goes back to knowing your customers.

One thing I like to suggest is for Match Directors and Stage Designers to look through past match results of their work and see what they can tell. Are the hf's low? High? Lots and lots of penalties?

This has been a huge help for me over the past several years. The MD can learn a lot from a few numbers.

Don't totally leave out hard stages, mix it up, but don't dumb it all down.

Very well put. I absolutly love it when a shooter comes up to me and calls me an SOB then says that was the most fun stage they have shot in a long time all in one breath.

Joe W.