2009 Fort Benning 3 Gun Challenge

[Mickster]

The Bridge.

After two goes at it I think I have it finally figured out and you guys want to burn it up. That sounds like a good time had by all and I'm down with that.

Let's try it one more time. But have the targets a bit closer and a bit more of them showing themselves.

After that let's burn it!

[00bullitt]

I think the bridge should be the target stand for the multiple targets to be shot with the MiniGun from the mock helo door. That way.....everybody can get a piece of it.

Its a win win......the bridge dies and everybody gets to shoot a minigun

[Stefan]

I think the bridge should be the target stand for the multiple targets to be shot with the MiniGun from the mock helo door. That way.....everybody can get a piece of it.

Its a win win......the bridge dies and everybody gets to shoot a minigun

+1

[whiskey1]

M-2. Or...to take and idea from FNH- Do one stage with all prop guns, easy targets (to account for unfamiliar guns), and close range hoser targets. M-9 pistol, M-4 Carbine, and whatever military issue shotty you guys have handy. I understand Rick Rutabegga loves stages that use opgs (other peoples guns). He ususally does real well at those. Just trying to help out a buddy....

Still, M-2 is THE prop gun. Tracers at 1000 yards maybe. We could probably manage to set most of SW GA on fire. Any stage in the trench with lots of smoke will be good. An occasional small order explosion would be pretty cool too.

[Brian Payne]

The "pyro" in me has always wanted to try a WWII flame thrower. The "bridge" sounds like it might make a good target. I have never shot on it yet, so I can not offer an educated opinion.

[M ammo]

Hello all, to MY knowledge no one has used a 5.45 projectile at the FB3G. Neither I nor the staff will be actively looking for it either. If your projectile is attracted to a magnet, you can not use it, if you are caught game over. The OP on this topic quoted the RULE as minimum caliber .223/ 5.56, this is interesting as it states MINIMUM meaning must be equal to or larger than 5.56. To my knowledge (and I went to LA public schools so I could be wrong) 5.45 issss smaller than 5.56, question answered.

Let’s move on to more interesting topics. If you could pick one cool item or prop (NO VEHICLES OF ANY KIND) what would it be?

This year’s theme is going to be pretty BA!

This years T-shirt will be the best ESPECIALLY if you've been to any Tactical 3-Gun this year, you will want to per-order a few!

Rooms are almost gone, make your reservations soon, or you'll have to find another hotel. Keep in mind most hotels in this area fill up about 3 months out for the weekends, this is when the trainees get there graduation date so make those reservations early.

Any other questions, post them here, I want to get the post count up!

BigHamp

Stage ideas,,

Are you sorry you asked yet?

I'm still a fan of blind/ surprise stages,

In staged guns.. They are fun, but they need to work, and be ZEROed. That is always a challenge. For you the match director.

Jim M ammo

[Scout454]

We've used stage guns at least 3 times at Ft Benning. All three of them were zero'd and I sincerely doubt that anything used at this match would not be zero'd.

[M ammo]

We've used stage guns at least 3 times at Ft Benning. All three of them were zero'd and I sincerely doubt that anything used at this match would not be zero'd.

Just thoughts from other matches,,, matches that I have run and others that I have been to.

I have seen how people DROP their own gun in a drop box,, ouch.

With a staged gun. How many shooters before you shoot will have the chance to drop that gun in the drop box?

I'm sure whatever gun that is our their will be zeroed.

After the first 100+ shooters?

That is what I meant.

Jim M ammo

[Scout454]

The M40 (or whatever the Army calls them) was zero'd at 600 yards and it was dead nuts on all weekend.

The M203 would hit the car if you knew how to aim it.

The M4's were rotated out and aside from a few shooters leaving them loaded, they worked and were on target for the three days of the match.

The AMU has several armorers on site. I sincerely doubt that a prop gun - in this match - would be off at any range shooters were expected to hit with it.

[slowsure]

Ask a bunch of 3-gunners for their idea of what to do....with an Army budget....wow. Bighamp must have time on his hands

Here's my idea. What if we ran one of the stages off of the International Sniper Competition? I have only watched this event on TV. The events they run aren't 3-gun stages but, look "somewhat" close to what we do. Some of the events are not ("old fat man" my words here) friendly but could be trimmed down and spruced up with the cool Army toys that we like to get a chance to shoot; Ma Duce, Mk-19, AK, etc....

We already have a team event set-up. I think it would be very cool if this stage would be a team score for the stage (you didn't think my idea would be LESS work for you? did you Linda C ) This would make the team part mandatory but I think it could work out and be a lot of fun!!! ....and since its my idea I get to pick my teammate first. I pick Robby J. Sorry Dan (teammate last year) .

Just my 02.

Alan

[LChico]

Ask a bunch of 3-gunners for their idea of what to do....with an Army budget....wow. Bighamp must have time on his hands

Here's my idea. What if we ran one of the stages off of the International Sniper Competition? I have only watched this event on TV. The events they run aren't 3-gun stages but, look "somewhat" close to what we do. Some of the events are not ("old fat man" my words here) friendly but could be trimmed down and spruced up with the cool Army toys that we like to get a chance to shoot; Ma Duce, Mk-19, AK, etc....

We already have a team event set-up. I think it would be very cool if this stage would be a team score for the stage (you didn't think my idea would be LESS work for you? did you Linda C ) This would make the team part mandatory but I think it could work out and be a lot of fun!!! ....and since its my idea I get to pick my teammate first. I pick Robby J. Sorry Dan (teammate last year) .

Just my 02.

Alan

Aaron doesn't have time on his hands. Much like you, he just likes to stir the pot.

As for your team event suggestion, putting everyone on a team is actually easier for me. But we also charge extra for the team event & that is why we would probably keep it optional.

And no doubt, Robby is scratching his head thinking "Alan? Alan who?" But if I tell him it is the RO who loses everything, he can probably put a face to the name.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2009 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician

[Mike P]

Well, since it only "pot stirring", then I guess theres no reason to suggest a couple of Texas stars to be shot from the bridge with pistol and shotgun, one or the other weakhand/side. Or none of the little poppers that pitch the clays and moving slug targets to be shot from the bridge. No reason to mention that it'd be a challenge to engage steel knockdowns targets with steel hostages from the bridge.

At least this adds to the post count, eh?

[blkbrd]

Ok "pot stirring". Starting in the boat, motor up to bridge and procede to shoot 20 slugs from bridge

[Chuck Anderson]

The M40 (or whatever the Army calls them) was zero'd at 600 yards and it was dead nuts on all weekend.

The M203 would hit the car if you knew how to aim it.

The M4's were rotated out and aside from a few shooters leaving them loaded, they worked and were on target for the three days of the match.

The AMU has several armorers on site. I sincerely doubt that a prop gun - in this match - would be off at any range shooters were expected to hit with it.

I notice you didn't mention last years AK which for me and everyone else I talked to was way off at the short distance we were shooting. I was aiming in the C-zone between the A and the B zone. I ended up in the C Zone under the A zone. We were warned before shooting that the gun shot low. Stage guns will always cause problems. Either the things won't be sighted in, or some shooter will do poorly on the stage and blame the gun for not being sighted in. That said, I love having the opportunity to shoot something at Benning I don't get to anywhere else. I just don't think it should account for a huge portion of the scoring of a stage.

[BigHamp]

I just don't think it should account for a huge portion of the scoring of a stage.

Did it? I believe we have done a good job of putting prop guns in stages. First you start with the prop, so you do not have to figure it out on the clock, second if it is "high value" then you can reengage with your weapon or it is a bonus. The AK "may" have been a little off, but lets remember that the target stopped in bayonet range, and IF you missed it, well....

There are NO options that will make everyone happy, and some people will post here and elsewhere with only half the the story (you know exactly who you are) then not retract, then come back! We do our very best to insure it is a fun and challenging event, to do that we need to put in an Army touch, so there will more than likly be a pick up gun or two, and they will be from the bridge!!!

Truly I am NOT just stirring the pot, this is your match so keep the ideas comming, based on this the BRIDGE is back, and as suggested with ( a sort of) V-Tac barracade set-up. See I listen!

Thanks again to everyone here for your continued support!

BigHamp

[Scout454]

Unless something happened between the time we shot the stage and you did, we knew it was low, the RO's were telling shooters it was low and AFAIK no one in our squad had a problem. The difference we noted was more like four inches. The windage was on and it wasn't an issue. FWIW, every AK variant I've shot has been low at close range. Even more so than an AR15/M16 platform.

[ChristianHE]

I just don't think it should account for a huge portion of the scoring of a stage.

Did it? I believe we have done a good job of putting prop guns in stages. First you start with the prop, so you do not have to figure it out on the clock, second if it is "high value" then you can reengage with your weapon or it is a bonus. The AK "may" have been a little off, but lets remember that the target stopped in bayonet range, and IF you missed it, well....

There are NO options that will make everyone happy, and some people will post here and elsewhere with only half the the story (you know exactly who you are) then not retract, then come back! We do our very best to insure it is a fun and challenging event, to do that we need to put in an Army touch, so there will more than likly be a pick up gun or two, and they will be from the bridge!!!

Truly I am NOT just stirring the pot, this is your match so keep the ideas comming, based on this the BRIDGE is back, and as suggested with ( a sort of) V-Tac barracade set-up. See I listen!

Thanks again to everyone here for your continued support!

BigHamp

How about a couple stages where the shotgun or rifle is slung? (and do the transition on the bridge ) I got to do that at a match recently and it was a new challenge that was fun and instructive...

[uscbigdawg]

SFC Hampton,

No worries on the prop guns. Last year was my first FTB3G and had no issues with the AK or the M203. They shot where they were supposed to and given the distance to the target, the AK was just fine. I would like to shoot in the hide/village like y'all did in 2007 (since I was in and had to miss that match due to deployment; same with the '06 match). No boats as that's just hokey. The bridge with a barricade is fine. After spending 3 days RO'ing that thing last year, it's not near as bad as one would think (got more than a few "techniques" for working the bridge.

Some kind of a brain teaser/puzzle, on the clock wouldn't be bad either. Remember a sequence of something or the like. Yeah it's about the shooting, but it's still a military-ish match and one of the many things is remembering under stress.

Hmmm....I still would like a 'hawk, but see that it's a logistical and liability nightmare.

Rich

[BlakeM]

Since this will be my first year at the FB3G I don't have any past experiences from the match to make any comparisons, but that might be a good thing too!

Id love to see a M249 at the match. Of course this is second only to the Huey/M60 combo....

[Chuck Anderson]

I just don't think it should account for a huge portion of the scoring of a stage.

Did it? I believe we have done a good job of putting prop guns in stages. First you start with the prop, so you do not have to figure it out on the clock, second if it is "high value" then you can reengage with your weapon or it is a bonus. The AK "may" have been a little off, but lets remember that the target stopped in bayonet range, and IF you missed it, well....

It was a tiny portion of the match last year. You guys have always done a great job of including the prop guns but not making them a make or break proposition. The reason I posted that was someone suggested a stage of all prop guns. That stage would obviously have the prop guns as all of the stage scoring. I would prefer you keep doing it the way you have. A little bit of prop, but mostly your own guns.

[mike.45]

I notice you didn't mention last years AK which for me and everyone else I talked to was way off at the short distance we were shooting.

Wow.... you mean you aimed it ?????

By the time I had racked the bolt that target was 10 feet away coming at me at flank speed and I only had time to shoulder it and point shoot the paper. I had no idea where my rounds went but if the first round was low as you say the gun climbed on auto and I must have raked it as Travis said I had scored two A's.

I am impressed you had time to firstly get a good sight picture and secondly know where your rounds were hitting ! I must try harder !!

Ok "pot stirring". Starting in the boat, motor up to bridge climb up 30 foot knotted rope to bridge and procede to shoot 20 slugs from bridge

Fixed it !

[DMAC]

Shooting the Barret 50 cal at a car 867 yards away at BRM3G was fun. Any way we could get a supply of about 200 concrete blocks (or a donated vehicle) and shoot them at long range with a 50 cal?

[slowsure]

Ask a bunch of 3-gunners for their idea of what to do....with an Army budget....wow. Bighamp must have time on his hands

Here's my idea. What if we ran one of the stages off of the International Sniper Competition? I have only watched this event on TV. The events they run aren't 3-gun stages but, look "somewhat" close to what we do. Some of the events are not ("old fat man" my words here) friendly but could be trimmed down and spruced up with the cool Army toys that we like to get a chance to shoot; Ma Duce, Mk-19, AK, etc....

We already have a team event set-up. I think it would be very cool if this stage would be a team score for the stage (you didn't think my idea would be LESS work for you? did you Linda C ) This would make the team part mandatory but I think it could work out and be a lot of fun!!! ....and since its my idea I get to pick my teammate first. I pick Robby J. Sorry Dan (teammate last year) .

Just my 02.

Alan

Aaron doesn't have time on his hands. Much like you, he just likes to stir the pot.

As for your team event suggestion, putting everyone on a team is actually easier for me. But we also charge extra for the team event & that is why we would probably keep it optional.

And no doubt, Robby is scratching his head thinking "Alan? Alan who?" But if I tell him it is the RO who loses everything, he can probably put a face to the name.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

2009 Ft Benning 3 Gun Statistician

Now Linda C, "stirring the pot" is not my forte.........something else is.............I just cant remember what it is right now......I'll get back to you on that.

You didn't use my idea for last year about have the competition before the competition. Who ever signed in the fastest for the registration won spent primers and used ear plugs (BTW I still have these prizes). So I guess my Sniper Team stage idea is not so good either. Well sounded fun anyway.

Robby don't need to know who I am. That's the beauty of it. I'll just be the ammo/gun bearer and he will shoot it FOR me. My part of the "team" wouldn't require trigger pullin

[Jim Norman]

The AK Stage was a hoot. The target was certainly close enough that sights were nearly superfluous.

I would welcome a stage where we get to play with somethings that we generally don't get to play with.

We have broken down doors with a battering ram, we have shot an AK and a 50 cal rifle. We have fired a grenade launcher.

So, how about a stage that is shot in reduced visibility through smoke? Or wearing a mask, helmet and vest? Mortar? Artillery simulators? Wire slides? I hesitate to say water or mud, although most matches seem to get a natural supply of both. A tunnel properly constructed can be challenging and fair, (See Kyle Lamb's match about 5-6 years ago at Trigger Time) Shooting from a moving vehicle is always a hoot, but needs to be done in a manner that can be easily replicated for every shooter, some sort of speed control. Shooting from odd positions is just plain expected and a part of every match so that isn't new or innovative.

RPG? Recoilless Rifle (like the old Lahti?) Some sort of pyrotechnic device that we get to trigger that really does some fllash, bang boom and flings dirt high into the air?

One thing to keep in mind is that a fair number of the customers are no longer 23 years old and in top physical condition. Any challenge needs to be tempered enough so that the vast majority of us can actually accomplish it, not necessarily in the time we might once have, or thought we would have (The older we get the better we were), but we do need to keep any challenge in the realm of the possible for the average competitor.

Jim

[Bryan 45]

Mmmmmm, Jim. I like tunnels. And smoke!