vrod2011 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I heard a comment Sunday that got me thinking. Tom Russell, Rich Wyatt, Ed Head; those were some of the names I heard mentioned as some of the top tactical instructors for pistol and rifle. These guys were all Jeff Cooper disciples. Bennie Cooley is a name that comes to mind to me. So, the question is, who is, or who are, the top tactical instructors today for the armed citizen? I went through Bennie's course back in '01 or '02, and I can't imagine a better course out there. What is your opinion? Best instructor, best school, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrod2011 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Yes, but I'm not looking for the opinion of mall ninja's. I'm asking here because I'm looking for accurate, well informed opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb45acp Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 PM sent. IMO, for "tactical" training, it's hard to beat Thunder Ranch. I've also heard good things about Tac Pro and Rifles Only. However, if you want to learn straight up shooting skills I highly reccomend Frank Garcia or Manny Bragg at Universal Shooting Academy. Others on the forum can also give you their experiences with Max Michel, Jr., Matt Burkett, Dave Re, USSA, etc. The forum itself is also a wealth of information. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taco101 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Chills....head on over and ask some of those mall ninjas about the two way range. You might just learn a thing or two. Lots of "Been There Done That" types might just take exception with the moniker. As for instructors? Farnham, Pinkus, Howe, Vickers......all come to mind as go to guys. Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, CTAC, Tactical Responce.....few other schools on the short list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Shooter Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I took a class with Pat Rogers/EAG TActical in '07. Excellent class. Pat is a very humble instructor, extremely good shooter, funny, and has a lot of experience. I'm in the process of setting up a class with Jeff Gonzales/Trident Concepts. So far, in several months worth of e-mails, phone calls and dumb questions on my part, he has been extremely polite and professional. He, to, has a lot of experience. Both are very much of the school of thought that "this is not THE way, rather it is A way." I've taken several classes each with Frank, Manny and Ted Puente. Can't go wrong with any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Brass Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I heard a comment Sunday that got me thinking. Tom Russell, Rich Wyatt, Ed Head; those were some of the names I heard mentioned as some of the top tactical instructors for pistol and rifle. These guys were all Jeff Cooper disciples. Bennie Cooley is a name that comes to mind to me. So, the question is, who is, or who are, the top tactical instructors today for the armed citizen? I went through Bennie's course back in '01 or '02, and I can't imagine a better course out there. What is your opinion? Best instructor, best school, etc? This guy is good! He currently holds classes for military, law enforcement, and action\shooters. He even offers a money back gauruntee if you don't feel like the class was worth it. Nobody in my class asked for there money back. He holds classes at his facilities in Texas and also travels. Len Baxley with TDSA Check them out at http://www.tdsa.net/tdsamain.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmap Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) I know some of these names are great but DON'T forget about Kyle Lamb. He created and owns Viking Tactics. Kyle has been there and done that. He is former Delta (for real) and has been in more sh!t than most of these guys combined. Maybe not all of them. Kyle is easily one of the best out there and he is not some mall ninja bragger. Viking Tactics - Kyle's website Edited March 11, 2009 by jasmap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taco101 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I know some of these names are great but DON'T forget about Kyle Lamb. Kyle has been there and done that. He is former Delta (for real) and has been in more sh!t than most of these guys combined. Maybe not all of them.Kyle is easily one of the best out there and he is not some mall ninja bragger. Very true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Robert Houzenga, midwest training group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Also look at Scott Reitz and Bill Rogers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Todd Jarrett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV man Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I have trained with Steve Moses at Bluffdale firearms academy. My son took his AK course before he headed to the sandbox and credits the training he received with helping him come home. That, in itself is enough for me. My wife and I are taking another class in May. Steve suggests that we all get training from several people and pick out what works best for us. There isn't a best way for everyone. I like that. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I have only had dealings with one person/organization: Pat Goodale. The facility is far from fancy, but Pat and everyone that works for him have "walked the walk" for many years and know whereof they speak. FWIW, most of the training they do is law enforcement and military. These are not people who make a living just doing training either - many are LEOs or work for security companies. Here is a bit more about his organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 I'm not going to recommend any particular instructor, but will mention something to consider. Some instructors teach tactical shooting (sorta what we do in USPSA/IDPA matches with a bit more added). Others teach tactics, i.e. how to clear a room. Make sure that the instructor you're talking to teaches what you're hoping to learn about (some teach both). R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Bart makes a great point about the difference between tactical shooting and tactics. Ken Hackathorn does an excellent seminar covering both aspects, as does Tom Givens. Ernie Langdon can flip it either way. Just let him know what you're looking to get out of it. For fast and accurate tactical shooting, Jim Higgenbotham out of Kentucky is great. And for an eye-opening urban survival lesson using simunitions, check out Karl Rehn in Texas (I think he's here on the forums from time to time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 And for an eye-opening urban survival lesson using simunitions, check out Karl Rehn in Texas (I think he's here on the forums from time to time). I hope lots of instructors are using sims now....they're one of the easiest, most effective tools you can use. I've been "shot" enough times to know that shooting ability isn't the only thing to try and improve! Funny, related anecdote. During training they talked about how it's "impossible" to hit someone who takes a quick peek from around a corner....sort of peek-a-boo, but done really fast. To demonstrate this they have one person go about 7yds downrange and get behind a doorframe. They have to peek out and count how many fingers the instructor is holding up behind the shooter. Sure enough, they picked me to be the shooter....not knowing anything about my shooting experience. My classmate went downrange, I took note of where his head was on the doorframe and when he popped out I drilled him between the eyes (goggles) with a sim round. The instructors just stood there and after a long pause said "well, that's never happened before". I laughed and said that I cheated (sorta did really), but heck, it was just like a swinger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 2nd that. Insights Training does some very good "tactical" classes. If you already know how to shoot, you don't have to do the shooting classes, but they have some great classes on things like Street & Vehicle tactics (fun stuff like roadblock ramming as well as more prosaic and useful things), a great Defensive Knife class as well as a ton of others from unarmed to disarms, and so on. In fact if a 'tactical' class is all about shooting, then it's unlikely to be a good one for 'ordinary folks'. Most of the time shooting means you failed to "fail the victim selection process".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGentry Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Good information!!! Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 My opinion is that you are better off asking this question to the mall ninja crowd on either the LightFighter forum or the Get Off the X forum. Mall ninja crowd? You simply are beside yourself huh. I know a lot of those guys personally (on LightFighter), and might I suggest you never call them such derogatory names to their face. That website usually stays on top of removing the trolls and fakes. A lot of real world operators and a wealth of knowledge there. I certainly wouldn't want to piss in their corn flakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 I can see room clearing very important in a self defense inside the home situation. EVERY shooting trick you can add to your tool bag is a benefit. Any training is better than no training. Xe, formerly known as "Blackwater" offers some excellent training from a group of folks that have done it for life and death. I don't discount the training I have engaged in even if any of it was Mil/LE based. I am a more prepared and safer citizen because of it. I don't go into rooms blasting every target I see, and in real life you don't get a walk through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpaz Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) They are also useful to break you out of the structured match mindset. "Shooting correctly" is a survival skill but so is when to shoot, where to shoot (aim), and when to stop shooting. If you have a practice day or have access to a stage after a match, run through it but with the condition that until the RO gives you a signal you haven't neutralized the target, and let him decide on the fly if he wants from 1 to 10 shots. And make the signal subtle so you have to devote part of your concentration to deciding if you are done or not. And to really make it fun, because you won't have 3-dimensional targets, turn the targets at an angle, and shoot the white no-shoots. See how smoothly that goes the first time! Good shooting skills and good "tactical" skills are complimentary, but definitely not the same. edited because I hit submit instead of preview! Edited March 14, 2009 by bdpaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpaz Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 There is some great information here for people like us to go out and have some fun shooting different things - I am still not convinced that it should be looked at as more than just fun! I don't think anyone is trying to convince you that it is more. I agree with you and that is why some take the tactical classes - because they/we want additional skills. If you are saying that everyone should just shoot for fun and leave the serious stuff to the police because we live in a happy world with dumb criminals, and that anyone who wants more than to "shoot correctly" is a mall ninja, then I certainly do not agree with you. I believe I have seen a certain signature line that mentions that we are all shooters and shouldn't bicker between disciplines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 C'mon folks. The thread's starter was looking for recommendations for trainers. Let's keep it on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 That didn't work very well, so instead of closing the topic, I gutted it of all the noise. If you notice a post missing, that's where it went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpaz Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 (edited) OK, I'll apologize and be constructive . I don't have anything to add to the list of the best but I will say not to discount any of the lesser known, regional recommendations. Also look for local organizations, find out who their clients are, avoid the ones with the special program for the drop holster camo'd 16 year olds who want to join the army to be a SEAL and fly fighters, and you may be surprised what you can learn from a "no name" who knows his (or her) stuff. A good indicator is if LE and/or military folks spend their own money to attend, and the trainer welcomes private individuals. I have been to several classes taught by current and former LE instructors and, while I'd say maybe 20% of the material wasn't applicable to me, it was still interesting (and fun). They were local so I had no expenses beyond the cost of the classes so I have no complaints. I will be looking for more of them and really don't care if even less of the day is directly useful to me. How can you complain about a weekend day or two outdoors shooting and learning cool stuff? Edited March 15, 2009 by bdpaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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