New Shooter-.9mm or 40

[BigH]

I am a new shooter. I purchased a Ruger Mark 3, which I love, and am now hooked and want to purchase a new gun with the intention of competing someday. I live in NJ and in my area permits are really hard to get as they sit on the paperwork forever. I can not at this point really tell you what type of competitions I will like best as I need to try them all out a couple of times first.

I was very gun ho and getting a 1911 style .45 like a Kimber or Springfield. I shot about 100 round of .45 the other day and find this to be too much gun for my 148 pound frame. love the Kimber and if not for price I would own one already

I started looking at the Sig 226, Baretta 92 in 9mm and really like the feel of both gun and the way they shoot. The SIG feels more solid in my opinion. Also the ammo is definitely more cost effective then the .45. I started reading on this and other sites that I should really look to go with a .40 as there are limitations in certain classes with the .9.

My questions is: If you can only purchase one firearm and plan to compete which caliber is best to go with for multiple classes.

Next Question-I prefer a more solid feeling firearm. I am not looking to start a war: I shot a couple of Glocks and found them to be very accurate BUT they feel a bit toy like to me.

What is everyone buying these days?

Is anyone else having a problem finding stores with supply-everyone seems to be sold out of new guns.

Thanks

[chirpy]

First off...welcome. You will probably find the info you need here. I suggest that you check out IDPA.com and USPSA.org and use their club locator function to find local clubs. Things will be starting up soon and maybe you can catch the end of an indoor season. Visit and observe and ask lots of ?????s You will meet a lot of good folks! Also check out the rules of both organizations for equipment and such. I also suggest you try out guns at local ranges if $$$$s allow. This might help you make up your mind. Finally, don't count out anything just because it is "Plastic"...Glock has proven itself reliable and able to stand up to tons of rounds downrange. If I were starting out now (I've been competing for about 30 years) I probably start with a 9mm of some sort due to cost. I also would plan on reloading, probably using Dillon equipment.

JMNSHO

Richard

PS: Lots of valuable info under the search function here.

[BigH]

Thanks Chirpy. I have been at the range quite a bit lately and asking tons of questions. What is amazing in this sport is you ask 10 different people and you get 10 different questions. I agree about the ammo cost of a 9 vs 40. I have also been on the web sites and like IDPA-I think

Here is my dilemma- I do not think I will be able to purchase another firearm in 2009 so what ever I ultimately get needs to be versatile. I do not want to be in a position where I am looking to upgrade in 6 mos. I would rather spend the money now and get the best bang for my buck for about $1000.

FYI- I Love the super 38 but teh ammo is a bit more difficult to get.

Based on the above would you still suggest the 9. I have no personal preference so advise is welcome. I also would love feed back on brands of guns that people are using-Loaded question-sorry

[G-ManBart]

Thanks Chirpy. I have been at the range quite a bit lately and asking tons of questions. What is amazing in this sport is you ask 10 different people and you get 10 different questions. I agree about the ammo cost of a 9 vs 40. I have also been on the web sites and like IDPA-I think

Here is my dilemma- I do not think I will be able to purchase another firearm in 2009 so what ever I ultimately get needs to be versatile. I do not want to be in a position where I am looking to upgrade in 6 mos. I would rather spend the money now and get the best bang for my buck for about $1000.

FYI- I Love the super 38 but teh ammo is a bit more difficult to get.

Based on the above would you still suggest the 9. I have no personal preference so advise is welcome. I also would love feed back on brands of guns that people are using-Loaded question-sorry

Unless you're asking the opinion of active USPSA/IDPA shooters you're going to get answers, but they're not going to be very helpful....they simply don't know what does and does not work in our sport(s).

Forget the .38 Super...it's great, but almost nobody uses it except Open shooters. A few folks will use it for Minor in Single Stack and one of the IDPA divisions but you could also use a 9mm for them and save money.

The one gun that covers the most ground for both USPSA and IDPA would have to be a Glock 35. You can shoot it in Production (buy Atlanta Arms .40 minor and it'll shoot really soft), Limited, Limited-10, and IDPA with just minor tweaks to optimize it for each division (mag extensions/magwell for some divisions).

Some of us have put together ideas for new shooters here:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=913533

[Calmwater]

What clubs are available in your area? If you know you are going to shoot USPSA, or IDPA then I would suggest a Glock 17, 34 or 35. If you really want more bang for your buck on ammo I would pick one of the 9s. If you didn't like the 45 recoil, you are not going to like the 40 much better. I know that you can get minor ammo for them and I wouldn't discourage that, its just easier to go to Wal-Mart and buy a 100 pack of WWB 9 when I want extra practice ammo. Whatever you can shoot cheaper (and more comfortably,recoil) you will shoot more. If there are Glock Sport Shooting Federation shoots in your area, the Glock 17 is king.

If you don't like the Glocks, the Smith and Wesson M&P is a nice alternative. If you really don't like plastic, maybe you could get into a CZ 9 for under a grand, but I don't know as much about them(price wise that is, all the CZ fans on this forum probably aren't wrong).

And the big thing is as Flex always says:

"pick one and practice."

[Graham Smith]

If you are going to do your own reloading, then .40 is somewhat more versatile as you can load either major or minor. If you don't reload, then it is still possible to purchase major/minor loads from Atlanta Arms (good stuff, BTW); but, you can't just walk into WallyWorld and pickup .40 minor.

Start by finding out what clubs there are in your area and go to a couple matches and see what people are shoot there. See if you can find someone who will let you try out what they shoot.

FWIW, you can probably find a used Glock fairly cheap. They may seem a little like a toy, but you can bury them in mud and drive over them repeatedly with a monster truck then dig them out and fire them.

[Sarge]

Hi BigH Welcome!

I am new as well. I won't even shoot my first USPSA match until later this month. You may be getting info overload at this point, I know I did. You are right about getting 10 different answers to a question. That happens here alot as well. All I can say is nobody here will deliberately steer anyone wrong. You can trust the shooters here to give solid advice but it is up to you to know what you are looking for and to filter it out.

So let me give some new shooter advice from a new shooter.

Go to a club and see what is going on. Maybe even join the club. At mine we shoot steel, USPSA, bowling pin and some IDPA. And you can just come and plink. Don't get too wrapped around the axle about finding the "perfect" gun. Like most things in life nothing does everything perfectly. But you will find a lot of guns that work great for almost anything. Don't be afraid in the least to ask questions about somebody's equipment. Shooters love to help it seems. Hell, I don't even know you and I don't want to see you throw away money on something you don't need.

I would get a 9mm for sure. As somebody said it is about as cheap as you can get ammo wise. Even if you reload eventually 9mm is still cheaper to reload as well.Go to a shop or the range and ask to hold or even shoot different guns. They all feel different to a degree. Alot of people love Glocks, alot of people love M&P's. Alot of people don't like plastic guns like those but they sure do shoot nice. I shoot an M&P because I liked the way it felt in my hands over the Glock. If you pick them up you will notice a difference as well but you, like many others, might prefer the Glock. The big advantage to a glock is the availability of aftermarket stuff. You can do alot of modifications to a glock at your kitchen table.

Don't worry about strictly competing. Most club shooting will let you shoot almost anything as long as it is safe. But you will need certain other things besides the gun even to be able to shoot for fun at ,say, a USPSA shoot, or an IDPA shoot. You need holster, magazines, etc. and each and every one of the extras you will need also has several different choices you can make so it is easy to see how you can jump in too fast and make about 10 bad choices.

Don't forget you can have alot of fun with the .22 you have. Alot of shooters here shoot steel with .22. You don't even need a holster. It's not like you see on TV where everyone has a "ooooh look at me" shirt on and thousands of dollars worth of free equipment. It is a bunch of shooters having a blast and laughing at their misses and talking crap about their hits.

Forget major/minor, 38 super, race guns, $300 dollar holsters. Just show up and watch or help set up a match of any kind and you will learn all you need to know pretty quick

And read all that time allows on this forum.

[BigH]

Fellas,

I am really glad I joined-this is all great stuff.

After reading everything I think the 9 is the way to go for me. I am not planning on reloading as I do not have the time, and my wife would go crazy if I spend more time dedicated another hobby. I am huge bass fisherman need I say more.

I am definitly going to shoot the Glock 35 again. Maybe I am way too caught up in getting a metal gun especially the 1911 style. a Kimber 9 is about $1200 and it sounds like I can get a glock much cheaper and spend the money modifying as necessary.

Anyone use the sig 226 or 22 series. I really likes the way the gun felt.

Thanks

[Joe4d]

Sigs are ok but not the best choice for action sports. The bore axis is too high. You probably dont know what that means or how it applies just take my word for it. Over 50% of the Nationals production shooters were using Glocks. Personally I dont care for them but that has to do with grip angle. If you can naturally point a Glock (I cant they point straight up for me) I would choose a 5 inch 9mm. Second Choice would be a S&W M&P again in the 5" 9mm. Either one of those guns are entry level priced but can take you to the national championship in IDPA SSP or USPSA production.

[Dave Gundry]

For USPSA, you will have to pay more attention to caliber and gun choices than most of the other games.

For any new shooter, I always recommend something in a 9mm. Factory ammo is relatively cheap, so you won't have to reload to get your load just right. That said, if you're going with a 9, make sure you get a gun that is on the approved list for Production division (basically no single action guns (i.e. 1911)). Out of those options, you have 2 sets of basic choices: metal or polymer frame, and striker fired or DA/SA fired.

I prefer metal frames, but most have polymer frames... some options for this choice:

Polymer Frame: Glock, S&W M&P, Springfield XD

Metal Frame: Sig, Berretta, CZ & clones

Basically most of the polymer framed guns are striker fired, and most of the metal framed guns are DA/SA. The double action first shot can be challenging for some folks to overcome, but once you're past that - you have a nice single action gun for the rest of the stage.

Glocks do feel a bit funky (like a 2x4) for some folks, but, they are still the most popular gun for Production Division. I shot a S&W M&P for most of last year, and they feel great, run great, and are just an awesome gun. If you do decide you want a metal frame - I would go for a CZ - also awesome guns.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Dave Gundry

[Tzygä]

9mm if you don't reload.

Production class if you shoot 9mm ammo.

CZ SP-01 Sadow if you don't like Glock.

[BigH]

Once again I appreciate all the advice. Seems like the shooting community is full of great people that love the sport and are willing to help each other-rare these days.

I have heard nothing but great things about the CZ sp-01; only problem is that they are sold out everywhere. I will look around again and see if one of the ranges has one available to fire.

If there are any fellow Jersey Boys on this forum I would like to hear what gun shops have a good supply.

I am going back to range Monday and will test out the Glock, S&W, Sig, Beretta and CZ.

[chirpy]

BIGH I won't try to give you a lot of advise because I am a die hard 1911 fan (mostly because most of the others didn't exist when I started!). I have not shot anything else in compitition, just tried some informally. Some love the Glock...others say the XD points so easily and is easy to hit with...others sing the praises of the S&W MP. That is why I mentioned checking in to local clubs and visiting them and getting input there.

FWIW

Richard

[BigH]

I love the way the 1911's feel. My local gun shop has a Kimber Gold Match II that he let me hold. What a great feeling gun. He is willing to give me a really god deal on it due to the economy. I am so tempted. I wish I felt more comfortable shooting .45 and the ammo was a bit cheaper.

What makes the 1911 so desirable and accurate? I see tons of owners that swear by them

[J-Ho]

Other than getting out of Jersey, the best thing you can do is buy one of everything. I know you are on a budget (who isn't) so hear me out. I started out with a 9mm CZ clone. Now I need another safe. Shoot lots of different guns, find out what you like. Once you are involved in a club, ask some of the guys if you can try out their guns. You might find your first choice doesn't work out for you. Buy a quality gun and you don't have to worry about it losing much value if you decide you don't like it. When I started I didn't know what I wanted in a gun. The more you shoot the more you learn and then you'll know what it is you want. My advice is to find a club IDPA, USPSA, whatever. Then get very basic equipment and start shooting. Most of all learn proper safety and have fun.

[imhntn]

I agree that the .40 is the most versatile and if you are only going to have one caliber and shoot in several classes it would be best. I shoot 9mm just because of the cheaper ammo. I am really a beginner too, having been shooting competitively for less than a year but it has been a good caliber to break into the competition with and is easy to handle.

[Mark Bellon]

I started all hot and heavy for a 1911 when I first started. I loved the feel but it hard for me to manipulate the slide and the recoil really was too much for me - and I'm a big guy. I shot a bunch of guns and settled on an 9mm XD tactical - I could shoot it, I could work the action and the ammunition was considerably cheaper than .40 or .45. It's a joy for me to shoot.

A month later I got a .22, a Browning Buckmark, for basic skills work and to use as a teaching aid - a great way to introduce new shooters. It's a joy for me to shoot.

Another month later I started trying out .45s again and I discovered that it wasn't a big deal anymore, in fact, I fell in love with it. There is something about the .45 round that is just SO nice. I can't quite put words to it but I love it. I purchased a S&W M&P 45. It's a joy to shoot.

I did discover that the (unmodified) trigger was a bit for my hand - so I solved that with a few, cheap GripMasters (5, 7, 9 and 11 pounds. I worked up the strength of my hands and now I can work trigger easier and rack just about any slide almost without thinking.

When the time came to consider a 1911 I opted for a Dillion 550. Now my shooting costs for .45 are halved and 9mm is cut by more than a 1/3. I'll get a 1911 someday, hopefully soon. That S&W 686 .357 looks like fun too and...

I shoot all three regularly however I'm starting USPSA type shooting training with the XD - ammunition costs are a factor for me. That .45 calls me back constantly through... something about it...

Don't be so sure that a gun is too much for you but don't get talked into something that not reliable and comfortable for you to operate. Whatever you get you're going to grow with quickly. A 9mm is an excellent overall choice - especially considering the ammunition costs - but do try to spend some time renting different guns and finding what works for you.

+1 on the .40 often being a bit hard on the hands. Personally I find the .40 a great deal harder on my hands than the .45 but YMMV.

+1 on 9mm/.45 XD and M&P.

+1 Gripmasters and improving your grip/finger strength and ability to move fingers independently.

+2 1911

mark

P.S.

One of the best shooters in my county is a 100 pounds (when sopping wet) fine boned asian lady who shoots the biggest looking Les Baer 1911 you could imagine (when you see it on her). A great deal of handing a gun is mental conditioning and a bit of training. Take you time and find what works for you.

[shooterbenedetto]

Shoot 9mm cheaper ammo and more lead practice!!

[workingman]

I started two years ago shooting production. I went with 9mm due to ammo cost and no time to reload. I use the Glock 34 and the Springfield XD. Both are good guns, but I prefer the 34 over the XD, only because there are after market options for it. I started shooting Limited 10 last year as a second gun and I use the XD for it. Since Minor scores lower then Major outside the A, it has really helped me focus on accuracy. I was to focused on time when I started and accuracy went to hell quickly. Shooting 9mm in limited 10 keeps the focus on going for 95% of the available points and letting the time come as I go. This was the single best change that I have made in shooting and it has paid off. Where I went wrong was belts , holsters and mag holders. You have so much fun in this sport I jumped in with all the wrong equipment before I knew. You can spend a small fortune on equipment if you go wrong.

[cheers623]

BigH,

former Jersey resident here (Palisades Park), now live in Seattle. For what it is worth, most people end up shooting what ever division allows their personal favorite gun to compete in. I was one of those people that convinced myself to buy and shoot Glocks because of all my "research and rationale". 9mm is cheaper, Glocks are more reliable, so on and so on... Anyway, I always liked holding, shooting, and watching others shoot 1911 style pistols. After many dollars spent on everything else I ended up selling most every other gun and bought a few reliable, high quality 1911s and have never been more happy. I let the gun I like to shoot decide the division and caliber. As far as your stature and the recoil issue, you will find that once you start pulling the trigger in competition, recoil perception becomes much less noticeable. When that beep goes off, the adrenaline kicks in and you are not nearly so aware of recoil compared to sitting indoors shooting leisurely groups. That is all my long-winded way of saying "if you like the 1911, buy one and have fun" you won't regret it.

Cheers!

[rupie]

I started shooting a 45, many years ago, the recoil no matter what caliber you shoot will be controllable with practice, what seems like heavy recoil now won't when you are used to it. If you have a USPSA club locally to go shoot at go and see what everyone is using. Most new shooters go to production class because it is the cheapest way to start shooting. You will probably find a few guys that are new also and will have a similar skill level to compete against right away. I shoot at 2 different clubs regularly and there are always new shooters almost every match. At first your biggest challenge will be your own nerves, the stress of drawing a loaded gun and reloading on the clock initially is a great challenge, but soon that will be easy. Soon you will be breaking down your performance to the basic techniques that will help you shoot faster and more accurately. One of the best things about this sport to me is when you are a new shooter and trying to figure out how to get better. I like to relive the new shooter experience by helping new guys out when they start. it is amazing how fast you can improve initally with some practice and coaching.

[cnote]

Once again I appreciate all the advice. Seems like the shooting community is full of great people that love the sport and are willing to help each other-rare these days.

I have heard nothing but great things about the CZ sp-01; only problem is that they are sold out everywhere. I will look around again and see if one of the ranges has one available to fire.

If there are any fellow Jersey Boys on this forum I would like to hear what gun shops have a good supply.

I am going back to range Monday and will test out the Glock, S&W, Sig, Beretta and CZ.

Contact Matt Mink, he will gt you a SP-01 no problem. You just need a ffl to ship it to. He can do some great modifications to it, and make you a "shadow +1" in my opinion.

mmink1@swbell.net

[cnote]

Fellas,

I am really glad I joined-this is all great stuff.

After reading everything I think the 9 is the way to go for me. I am not planning on reloading as I do not have the time, and my wife would go crazy if I spend more time dedicated another hobby. I am huge bass fisherman need I say more.

I am definitly going to shoot the Glock 35 again. Maybe I am way too caught up in getting a metal gun especially the 1911 style. a Kimber 9 is about $1200 and it sounds like I can get a glock much cheaper and spend the money modifying as necessary.

Anyone use the sig 226 or 22 series. I really likes the way the gun felt.

Thanks

Good gun, not popular in the sporting side. Find a CZ rental somewhere as a steel gun in 9mm

[Steve Moneypenny]

I didn't read the whole thread. But from the first few posts. I would say 9mm. the 40 kicks worse than a 1911 45 in the Beretta, SIG and Glock.

try an M&P, CZ, as well as those mentioned. make a list, list what you like.

Sig and beretta aren't as popular in USPSA and IDPA because of the double action pulls, many people do shoot them and shoot them well. Glocks. if they fit your hand are super.. if not there is no adjustment thats viable for our competition at this point.

[G-ManBart]

I didn't read the whole thread. But from the first few posts. I would say 9mm. the 40 kicks worse than a 1911 45 in the Beretta, SIG and Glock.

Hmmmm....I've got both .40 and .45 single stacks and I don't see that difference with similar power factor ammo. The .40 might have a tiny bit more snap to it, but it's still a pussycat. In fact, my wife (all 105lbs of her) just put 200 rounds through my Trojan .40 with 172PF ammo this afternoon. She commented how mild it is....this from a woman who's extremely petite. If her hands were larger it would be even easier, but it's still not a problem. R,