David Page Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I just had my oil changed by my local shop. I did't move the car until getting ready to shoot a local match (85 miles away) on saturday. Well on the way down the car starts making noises and shifting at odd times. Luck would have it there is a dealer near the range, so I stop and have them check it out. This is a new car, under warranty so I figure no big deal. Well to make this short the tech advises me that there is no tranny fluid in the car and the tranny is shot. He further states that there is no leak and it looks like someone drained it by mistake during an oil change. They asked if I had recent service and I told them of the oil change the day before. I next contacted the shop that changed the oil and they stated it could not be there fault. The mileage from the oil change to the dealership will be exact as the car did not move from the house after returning from the shop. So whats a guy to do and what might be my options. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Be smart Hire a lawyer, You don't want one that will talk for free. This is not time to watch you pennies and waist a few thousand. You need a pro and a good one. What about a certified lab to take a swab off your transmission drain cap to compare it to the tools at the oil change shop. That would prove if they put a wrench on the transmission plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 ???? ???? I'm in the industry and I'm confused. How many miles on the vehicle total ?? If the lube shop drained the trans by thinking it was the engine oil then is the eng oil overfilled by twice the amount ??? How did you make it 85 miles and there is no leak ?? Automatics dont usually get ruined because they run out of fluid, thats because if they are low (long before empty) they dont work and the car does not go anywhere ?? Could the engine be burning the trans fluid through a vacuum line, or seal ? If this one does operate with no fluid then it could have been empty from factory, I've seen all sorts of things missing from the factory. Now if this is a manual then it all makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Gundry Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 +1 to DC's comments/questions. What kind of car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Most cars won't hardly move if they are 2 quarts low on fluid. If they pulled a drain plug I would venture 3-4 quarts of fluid would have been drained, hence the vehicle would not have moved out of the shop. And yes the oil should have been overfull. Tough situation, but all the facts need to be assessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 still under warranty??? Put oil in the trany and have it towed to the dealer for warranty service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Have been there and done that- be smart very smart, get leagel advise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Page Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Its a subaru and only has 18000 miles on it. The car is now at the subaru dealer and had run fine until this event. It seemed to me that the only significant thing was the oil change. The subaru dealer refilled the tranny and tested it. They stated that there was still noise comming from the tranny, but there were no leaks. So if it is not leaking where could it have gone, and could the car go 18000 miles with no fluid? Is there any way; or what defect could cause the fluid to dissapear. Thanks for the help so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) It was a long time ago but I had a Chevy with an automatic that decided to siphon the tranny fluid out through a vacuum valve (vacuum modulator, I think?). It just stopped shifting. Edited February 17, 2009 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Murphy Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm suprised they did not replace it under warranty anyway as the dealer gets his money from the warranty company. I blew out some electrical components by accident and the service writer wrote it up as a mechanical failure. Either way, he was getting paid so he figured he would take care of the customer. Can you try another dealership or maybe buy someone lunch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) This is common with Toyota Carollas, Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe (same motor/tranny). What happens is: -tranny fluid is accidentally drained from pan (but about 1/2 of it remains in the torque converter - so the tranny still "works" sort of). - oil filter is removed, so SOME of the motor oil is removed. The shop "replaces" it with 3 or 4 quarts - leaving a LOT of excess oil in the motor. Result is a shot tranny. Try finding a used Carolla or Martix tranny anywhere - they do not exist (made worse by some faulty tranny bearings in 03 or 04 Toyotas). BTW - In 1997 I had an issue with a cracked tranny in my Honda civic after a guy in an SUV turned in front of me (his fault). Dealer missed the crack, the oil slowly leaked out, tranny siezed, and Honda did not want to warranty it (dealer said it was not his problem). I contacted BOTH the dealer who fixed the car and Honda USA and informed them that if ONE of them did not pay, I would be happy to meet one or both of their lawyers in small claims court, as the car had only 2000 miles on it with a non-functioning tranny. After that, Honda changed their mind about the warranty & installed a new tranny for me. Its a subaru and only has 18000 miles on it. The car is now at the subaru dealer and had run fine until this event. It seemed to me that the only significant thing was the oil change. The subaru dealer refilled the tranny and tested it. They stated that there was still noise comming from the tranny, but there were no leaks. So if it is not leaking where could it have gone, and could the car go 18000 miles with no fluid? Is there any way; or what defect could cause the fluid to dissapear. Thanks for the help so far. Edited February 17, 2009 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Have you checked the oil? is it overfull? if so, then what was explained above is what happened. If not, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen as the monkey under the car might have half caught his error and just didn't want to admit that he did it, so he didn't refill it, figured he didn't drain 'too much'. For the record, I got hit in the right front in my Denali a few years back, had the car repaired, $4500.00 there abouts. drove it quite a number of miles, then on a trip up north, it started shifting funny. Had to leave it up there and get a new transmission and radiator/trans cooler combo. Seems that the cooler/radiator combo allowed the trans fluid to mix with the engine coolant and trashed the whole system. Follow the advise given, A see if the oil change place will man-up and if not, call Dewey, Screwem and Howe Attorneys. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 This is common with Toyota Carollas, Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe (same motor/tranny).What happens is: -tranny fluid is accidentally drained from pan (but about 1/2 of it remains in the torque converter - so the tranny still "works" sort of). - oil filter is removed, so SOME of the motor oil is removed. The shop "replaces" it with 3 or 4 quarts - leaving a LOT of excess oil in the motor. Result is a shot tranny. Try finding a used Carolla or Martix tranny anywhere - they do not exist (made worse by some faulty tranny bearings in 03 or 04 Toyotas). BTW - In 1997 I had an issue with a cracked tranny in my Honda civic after a guy in an SUV turned in front of me (his fault). Dealer missed the crack, the oil slowly leaked out, tranny siezed, and Honda did not want to warranty it (dealer said it was not his problem). I contacted BOTH the dealer who fixed the car and Honda USA and informed them that if ONE of them did not pay, I would be happy to meet one or both of their lawyers in small claims court, as the car had only 2000 miles on it with a non-functioning tranny. After that, Honda changed their mind about the warranty & installed a new tranny for me. Its a subaru and only has 18000 miles on it. The car is now at the subaru dealer and had run fine until this event. It seemed to me that the only significant thing was the oil change. The subaru dealer refilled the tranny and tested it. They stated that there was still noise comming from the tranny, but there were no leaks. So if it is not leaking where could it have gone, and could the car go 18000 miles with no fluid? Is there any way; or what defect could cause the fluid to dissapear. Thanks for the help so far. +10 Carlos is all over this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I worked at a dealership for 12 years. If the car is uderwarranty, have it towed to the dealership and tell them the car does not want to move. Hopefully they will give you a loaner car while they fix it. They should replace the tranny if it is not repairable. Insist that you are paying for a car that doesn't work. if they cant fix it and wont give you a loaner car to get you around, i would get a lawyer!! we always get things done once we hear litigation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) At a dealer, the squeeky wheel gets "all" the lube !!! Trust me, I have to put up with it everyday !! Your choices are to go to another dealer and act stupid !! Insist that the trans is faulty and that no work was performed to it, they have to prove otherwise, they wont.. Make the lube shop pay for it.. Edited February 18, 2009 by DIRTY CHAMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 It was a long time ago but I had a Chevy with an automatic that decided to siphon the tranny fluid out through a vacuum valve (vacuum modulator, I think?). It just stopped shifting. Right part ( FORD called it modulator valve ) mine would stop shifting also -- replacet it for about 15.00 hope you have a good dealer-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I had an oil change shop (a chain operation) break a $200 sensor on my Hyundai Sonata doing an oil change. I made the manager of the shop an offer he couldn't refuse, offering to take compensation in the term of free oil changes (I usually watch, so I am certain it really gets changed) until the value balances out. I was taken care of, the shop manager didn't have to get his district manager to approve a "damage payment", and I keep getting these zero balance bills with the "Senior Discount" field equal to the cost of the oil change when I take the car in every 3000 miles. If you were certain you'd be using that shop for the next 250 oil change, you could make them a similar offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Gundry Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Its a subaru and only has 18000 miles on it. The car is now at the subaru dealer and had run fine until this event. It seemed to me that the only significant thing was the oil change. The subaru dealer refilled the tranny and tested it. They stated that there was still noise comming from the tranny, but there were no leaks. So if it is not leaking where could it have gone, and could the car go 18000 miles with no fluid? Is there any way; or what defect could cause the fluid to dissapear. Thanks for the help so far. Have them check the oil. If it is way over full, then you are pretty much guaranteed the oil change shop is at fault. But, that boxer motor should make one hulluva noise if it's that overfull... No way the car would go 18000 miles with no fluid (if you're thinking it never got filled from the factory). The car could possibly have driven to the range on an empty tranny / full converter, but it would have been awkward... They should at least try to figure out what happened. Tell the dealer you're lawyering up (and actually do it). Either they just fix it, or they can go after the oil change shop, if they can prove it was their fault. Not sure on the '09's, but the <'08's, it's pretty difficult to mistake the tranny pan for the oil pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I did a INTERNET search of recall or Subaru forums = I didn't find a match , But you may find something. Edmond's has the recall list for each make and model. The ford truck forum helped a bunch with problems saved me lots of cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Page Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) I need to thank every one for your help and input. There is an update. I contacted the involved parties and explained that I was indeed "Lawyering up" and would like one last opportunity to arbitrate the matter before legal counsel was secured. I told them that once this was done all bets were off and all communication would be with my attorney. The phone started ringing off the hook and the owner of the shop finnaly contacted me. He stated that he would cover all the costs associated with the repair and rental of a car. He stated that while he did not want to admit guilt, he understood my position. He understood that I was a loyal customer and wanted to honor that relationship. So chock one up to good business practice. I am quite pleased that my car will be fixed by subaru so I still have my warranty and I do not have to draw this out. I also have to say how great it is to post something and get tons of help. Thanks. Edited February 18, 2009 by David Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I need to thank every one for your help and input. There is an update. I contacted the involved parties and explained that I was indeed "Lawyering up" and would like one last opportunity to arbitrate the matter before legal counsel was secured. I told them that once this was done all bets were off and all communication would be with my attorney. The phone started ringing off the hook and the owner of the shop finnaly contacted me. He stated that he would cover all the costs associated with the repair and rental of a car. He stated that while he did not want to admit guilt, he understood my position. He understood that I was a loyal customer and wanted to honor that relationship. So chock one up to good business practice. I am quite pleased that my car will be fixed by subaru so I still have my warranty and I do not have to draw this out. I also have to say how great it is to post something and get tons of help. Thanks. I would get that on paper and a signature. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbs007 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I need to thank every one for your help and input. There is an update. I contacted the involved parties and explained that I was indeed "Lawyering up" and would like one last opportunity to arbitrate the matter before legal counsel was secured. I told them that once this was done all bets were off and all communication would be with my attorney. The phone started ringing off the hook and the owner of the shop finnaly contacted me. He stated that he would cover all the costs associated with the repair and rental of a car. He stated that while he did not want to admit guilt, he understood my position. He understood that I was a loyal customer and wanted to honor that relationship. So chock one up to good business practice. I am quite pleased that my car will be fixed by subaru so I still have my warranty and I do not have to draw this out. I also have to say how great it is to post something and get tons of help. Thanks. Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kframe_mike Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Cool man!I'm happy to hear things are looking up on this deal.As an aircraft mechanic,it p*sses me off to see the stuff a lot of these auto shops get by with.-Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I need to thank every one for your help and input. There is an update. I contacted the involved parties and explained that I was indeed "Lawyering up" and would like one last opportunity to arbitrate the matter before legal counsel was secured. I told them that once this was done all bets were off and all communication would be with my attorney. The phone started ringing off the hook and the owner of the shop finnaly contacted me. He stated that he would cover all the costs associated with the repair and rental of a car. He stated that while he did not want to admit guilt, he understood my position. He understood that I was a loyal customer and wanted to honor that relationship. So chock one up to good business practice. I am quite pleased that my car will be fixed by subaru so I still have my warranty and I do not have to draw this out. I also have to say how great it is to post something and get tons of help. Thanks. Life is Good! A.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBo1 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I need to thank every one for your help and input. There is an update. I contacted the involved parties and explained that I was indeed "Lawyering up" and would like one last opportunity to arbitrate the matter before legal counsel was secured. I told them that once this was done all bets were off and all communication would be with my attorney. The phone started ringing off the hook and the owner of the shop finnaly contacted me. He stated that he would cover all the costs associated with the repair and rental of a car. He stated that while he did not want to admit guilt, he understood my position. He understood that I was a loyal customer and wanted to honor that relationship. So chock one up to good business practice. I am quite pleased that my car will be fixed by subaru so I still have my warranty and I do not have to draw this out. I also have to say how great it is to post something and get tons of help. Thanks. I would get that on paper and a signature. BK Not certain if its necessary but getting it notarized can't hurt. JimB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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