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On 9/4/2017 at 8:41 AM, ChuckS said:

That's about what I was seeing using Rainier 135 in a 5" Kart barrel. (~ 1.157 OAL)

Thanks guys.  Tried HS-6 this week and thought it was too much recoil compared to my Longshot load.   Trying Autocomp this coming week.

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Putting together a .40 4.5 XDm for an open gun to see if I really like it before I drop 3-4K on a steel gun. Still waiting on the threaded Storm Lake barrel, first one was lost in shipment and the vendor is about as responsive as Fritz the Cat. Have the Springer comp ready, Burris Fastfire, and a NeuMont mount. I have ordered the 135 grain Rainiers, and wonder if anyone here has used a Storm Lake barrel with any of the powders here. I have Longshot, CFE, 800X, Silhouette, and Accurate 5 to play around with. 

 

Will be a fun winter project since we have a winter storm watch in effect, so match season is just about done here. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Probably not zinger.  If your goal is to reduce muzzle rise with factory ammo, barrel ports would be more effective than a comp.

 

mont, I don't have any Storm Lake barrels, but I have used the Rainier 135 in two Open pistols. 8.2gr WAC under the 135 makes 170PF in one gun with two 3/16" poppels and a 5-port, 4-chamber comp.  8.3gr Silhouette does the same.  Same results in the other pistol with a custom 3-chamber, 7-port comp.

 

I decided I really like the feel and reaction of the Rainier 155gr plated.  So I use 7.1gr WAC for 172PF or 7.2gr Silhouette.  8.2gr HS-6 will do the same, but make more gas.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I got the comp and barrel off to the smith to get them fitted, so now I have a good starting point with the Silhouette to start from. I don't have poppel holes, so I figure I will develop a bit more gas by the time the bullet hits the comp. I am thinking I will pick up a pound of HS-6 to play around with also.

 

Even though the whole Open crowd thinks 9MM and Super are the only rounds to use, I am not convinced that is true. I note the extra 2-3 rounds is an advantage for the 9, rarely is there a stage that does not require a mag change of some sort. It would also appear that .40 rounds give more advantages to the shooters ability to modify components to achieve the amount of gas needed to keep the barrel as level as it can be.

 

Of course, I presently shoot L10 with a .45, so I am already classed as nuts. 

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I decided as the off season was approaching to do some load testing.  I realize the felt recoil is a personal preference so I am just stating my preferences here for the benefit of discussion.

I'm running a custom JPL 40 with a Bedell comp cut down to 5 ports.  In my other Open 40 I was running 8.5gr of Longshot with the 135gr Rainier/Nosler at 1.155 OAL.  In my back up gun it was running about 177pf and that is the minimum load for Longshot.  I shot that for a number of years and it was pretty good out of that gun (Tony Kidd built, custom Tony Kidd comp, Schuemann barrel).

 

The same load is running 183pf with the JPL gun and a KKM barrel.  When I started shooting open in 2004 I started with a shorty 9 major and hated it.  I switched to a 40 Open in 2011 and tried numerous powders and bullet weights before I settled on Longshot.

 

With the higher power factor and more modern powders, I decided to give it a go again.  I'm using a baseline of 174pf for all powders and all are loaded to 1.155 OAL.  I'm trying the following powders:

 

Hodgdon HS-6

Winchester Auto Comp

Ramshot Silhouette

Winchester 572

 

I'm not trying any Viht powders, as I tried several years ago and they are ridiculously expensive.

 

So far, I have shot HS-6, Auto Comp and Silhouette side by side with Longshot.  I preferred Auto Comp and Silhouette over Longshot but Longshot over HS-6.  I'll be testing the 572 later this week and shooting Auto Comp, Silhouette and 572 side by side.

 

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Wow, this thread is almost 9 years old! It is time to either 'sticky' it, or send it too its grave.  I started shooting IPSC in 1991. Around the early 90's, there were a lot of shooters that used 40 S&W as open guns as it is easy to make major with them, as back then, the powders that we had to work with were tricky making major for 38S or 9x21, and 9mm Major was not even contemplated. Today is a different story. We have powders that are a lot safer making major and really, the days of 40 S&W open I would say are over, as the benefits of loading 38s, 38sc, and 9mm major are huge (muzzle rise, ammo capacity, etc), and there is no justifiable reason to build a race gun in 40 S&W. Just ask any gunsmith how many 40S&W race guns he has built in the last 5 years, and I would be surprised to see any. It is also tough selling a race gun in 40S&W when you want to move on and this too must be contemplated in your decision to go open.

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6 hours ago, abb1 said:

Wow, this thread is almost 9 years old! It is time to either 'sticky' it, or send it too its grave.  I started shooting IPSC in 1991. Around the early 90's, there were a lot of shooters that used 40 S&W as open guns as it is easy to make major with them, as back then, the powders that we had to work with were tricky making major for 38S or 9x21, and 9mm Major was not even contemplated. Today is a different story. We have powders that are a lot safer making major and really, the days of 40 S&W open I would say are over, as the benefits of loading 38s, 38sc, and 9mm major are huge (muzzle rise, ammo capacity, etc), and there is no justifiable reason to build a race gun in 40 S&W. Just ask any gunsmith how many 40S&W race guns he has built in the last 5 years, and I would be surprised to see any. It is also tough selling a race gun in 40S&W when you want to move on and this too must be contemplated in your decision to go open.

 

Lots of good information in this thread for the 25 of us that are dumb enough to run .40 in Open. 

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There are more than 25 of us.  I just bought another 40 Open as a backup.  i don't feel at all disadvantaged by using 40.  All I give up is 3 rounds of mag capacity that i probably wouldn't use anyway.  Then I get all of the advantages of using 40, and I get to make Major at safe pressures.

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3 hours ago, zzt said:

There are more than 25 of us.  I just bought another 40 Open as a backup.  i don't feel at all disadvantaged by using 40.  All I give up is 3 rounds of mag capacity that i probably wouldn't use anyway.  Then I get all of the advantages of using 40, and I get to make Major at safe pressures.

Never mind that I've got 30K of 40 brass and that I would have to spend $ 3800 to $4500 for a new gun.  This topic is still relevant no matter what the miscreants say :D

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  • 1 month later...

20171122_214757.jpg

I picked this up recently because my coworker has one and I always wanted one. Plus it shares clothes with the cz ts I use in limited.

So far I've only shot it with a few rounds of my old limited load of a precision bullets 170 moly coated on top of Bullseye at 1.135 and it was surprisingly flat and soft considering it isn't an ideal load for something with a comp.

I'm going to whip up some test loads with different weights and some slower powders over thanks giving. I wish there was more load data out there for these old modified division guns.

 

Edited by HotrodMachinegun
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46 minutes ago, HotrodMachinegun said:

20171122_214757_zpstezqdk2s.jpg

I picked this up recently because my coworker has one and I always wanted one. Plus it shares clothes with the cz ts I use in limited.

So far I've only shot it with a few rounds of my old limited load of a precision bullets 170 moly coated on top of Bullseye at 1.135 and it was surprisingly flat and soft considering it isn't an ideal load for something with a comp.

I'm going to whip up some test loads with different weights and some slower powders over thanks giving. I wish there was more load data out there for these old modified division guns.

 

I have a Open Glock 35 and I use 6.9gr of  Hodgdon  Universal Powder with 135gr berry.  I like the Universal more than HS6.   

Give it a try. 

I didn’t like Autocomp and Longshot.   

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8 hours ago, aandabooks said:

What mount is that?

Honestly, I haven't the faintest. Something CZ came up with the squeeze it into the box. I do know the hole pattern is definitely not cmore.

 

8 hours ago, tag129 said:

I have a Open Glock 35 and I use 6.9gr of  Hodgdon  Universal Powder with 135gr berry.  I like the Universal more than HS6.   

Give it a try. 

I didn’t like Autocomp and Longshot.   

Thanks, I'll give that a try. I also have some accurate no 7 and VV n105 I usually use for my .38 super loads I want to try. I've heard 180's and slow powders were the order of the day for IPSC modified.

I've only tried autocomp in my 9 and I didn't like it. It actually reminded me a lot of WSF in the way it felt.

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I think I can pretty much determine that my.gun doesn't like medium weight bullets like 155 and 165. I was getting the most dot movement with those weights regardless of powder and charge weight.

Going to run some more test loads today with 135s and 180s. So far 135s and hs-6 are... harsh but very flat. I was however oushing max with the listed load data. I'm going to back it off half a grain and try a few more.

I still have universal and power pistol on the way to try but at least I have the bullet weights narrowed down. I would almost prefer to make hs-6 work because I use it in other loads. I don't remember it being this difficult to get a .38 or 9 major load worked up but I sure am having fun with it.

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5 hours ago, HotrodMachinegun said:

I think I can pretty much determine that my.gun doesn't like medium weight bullets like 155 and 165. I was getting the most dot movement with those weights regardless of powder and charge weight.

Going to run some more test loads today with 135s and 180s. So far 135s and hs-6 are... harsh but very flat. I was however oushing max with the listed load data. I'm going to back it off half a grain and try a few more.

I still have universal and power pistol on the way to try but at least I have the bullet weights narrowed down. I would almost prefer to make hs-6 work because I use it in other loads. I don't remember it being this difficult to get a .38 or 9 major load worked up but I sure am having fun with it.

Try 180 grain bullets with the Universal.  The HS-6 may be to slow for that setup.  Based on what I have, I'd be testing it with Power Pistol.

It is an adventure testing all the bullet weights with various burn rate powders.  Once you come up with a good combo, it will be sweet. 

What about the previous owner?  Any idea what was used before?

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I've noticed a few folks in the last couple pages getting close to 180PF.  I built my own load (7.1 Autocomp, 155gr plated Rainier, 1.130") with a goal of minimum power factor.  I'm pretty sure I was getting 169-171PF.

 

Should my goal be focused more on dot behavior than on velocity/power?  Is my thinking a little too much like Production load development?  Will a higher PF sometimes be a benefit when the comp is worked better?

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CHL, the answer is yes.  I run the exact same load as you.  It makes 172PF.  7.2gr Silhouette does the same. 

 

The rule of thumb I use is add more powder until it starts jetting out the front.  That is as flat as you are going to get with that combination of components.  However, it may be harsher than you like.  I went for flat at first, and went all the way up to 188PF with HS-6.  It certainly shot flat, but it was very violent.  HS-6 runs a little softer and flatter than WAC or Sihl at the same PF, but it is dirty.

 

With the 135 Rainiers, try 8.2gr Autocomp.  That makes 170PF at 1.126" OAL out of my gun.

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I ran .40 major for the first time today in a match.  Forgot my 170mm mag at home but it didn't matter since it was a 32rd stage.  I'm at 172PF with Autocomp under a 155gr Xtreme bullet.  Gun shot very accurate and soft.  Took 1st for the match.

 

It is a .40 upper for a CZ TS thst I got on here.

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I ran about 50 rounds of hs6 and 135gr through it this morning and I just wasn't getting a very good or consistent burn with such a slow powder. Maybe I would have better luck with WSF but I threw a lb of power pistol on my last powder order and I'll wait until I can try a few of each side by side.

I'm going to try some 180s with hs6 next and see where that takes me.

I'm not really concerned with the cost of 180s vs 135s but I already use hs6 in another gun and I use 180s in my limited load. I do like the idea of being able to use components I already have.

The original owner had a large collection of competition guns that never really saw any use. I don't think he was a reloader and I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if it was never fired at all. The recoil spring still has the colored paint on it indicating weight.

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What do you think, can you build a open glock 22 (40 s&w) with a carver mount that will run reliablely  and you wouldn't feel like you wasted your money on the build? It looks like it would be a 1000 to 1500 for a complete open glock set up build youself including the cost of the gun. Anybody have experience with this type of set up?

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2 hours ago, jbecker said:

What do you think, can you build a open glock 22 (40 s&w) with a carver mount that will run reliablely  and you wouldn't feel like you wasted your money on the build? It looks like it would be a 1000 to 1500 for a complete open glock set up build youself including the cost of the gun. Anybody have experience with this type of set up?

 

I haven’t tried it but I was thinking about it being easier to set up and run efficiently in 40. Not that it couldn’t be done in a 9 version. Plenty of people have. But in my experience it took quite a bit of work. Different issues arose for me and my buddy on 9. The glock mag limits you on oal so I was always worried about doing it on 9. Not a lot of margin for error. I was about to venture into making a open 40 glock but came across a good deal on a 2011 in 40. Shooting that 2011 really wanted me to explore more in an open 40 glock but I never got around to it. All I would need is a compensator for it and I may revisit. I know in my 2011 I have some rounds that produce a lot of gas and the slide manipulate fairly slowly. I would think that it would be a great load in the glock so you can run lighter recoil springs. 

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I haven’t tried it but I was thinking about it being easier to set up and run efficiently in 40. Not that it couldn’t be done in a 9 version. Plenty of people have. But in my experience it took quite a bit of work. Different issues arose for me and my buddy on 9. The glock mag limits you on oal so I was always worried about doing it on 9. Not a lot of margin for error. I was about to venture into making a open 40 glock but came across a good deal on a 2011 in 40. Shooting that 2011 really wanted me to explore more in an open 40 glock but I never got around to it. All I would need is a compensator for it and I may revisit. I know in my 2011 I have some rounds that produce a lot of gas and the slide manipulate fairly slowly. I would think that it would be a great load in the glock so you can run lighter recoil springs. 
You can't run lighter than an 11 pound recoil spring in a glock without encountering a host of issues around not reseting the striker and stuff. A 19/2011 allows you to run springs down to like 6#, since the recoil spring doesn't have an effect on cocking the gun. If your 2011 is cycling slowly, go down a spring weight and test.
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