40 Open

[AlphaShot]

I love the LimCat JayDub posted.

[splashdown]

Hey 40 Open shooters. Here are some tips and words of advice I have dispensed on Power Factor Show.

This is the best one-stop-shop for 40 open advice on the ultranet!

[pbc44]

Thanks for the info. Whose scope mount is that and where did you get it.

Thanks Pete

Edited September 15, 2015 by pbc44

[splashdown]

Scope mount is from JV Dynamics.

[pbc44]

Thanks again

[JoeyMac]

just doing some thinking about the 40 open and how it works comps... Since 40 has no problem making major with variety of bullet weights and published loads, would using a 4" platform instead of a 5" be advantageous?

Right off the start, you should be able to have lighter slide action and the comp is closer to the chamber (higher pressure to work the ports). Plus, you could up the powder charge to maintain the PF out of the shorter barrel which should deliver even more pressure & volume to the comp.

I was thinking about putting together a G22 open-upper to run on my G35 limited frame I already have... but now I'm debating going with a G23 total open build. Thoughts?

Edited September 24, 2015 by JoeyMac

[splashdown]

Interesting thought JoeyMac, but I think no one will know unless there has been some experimentation done. A G23 with threaded barrel would give about a 4.5 inch length, not too terribly short. I cut my G23 for an RMR and am playing in Carry Optics currently. My current plans to go to an Open gun involve a G22 which means cutting another slide and getting another optic. I would run it on the frame that I already have setup for Limited with magwell, etc. You've got me thinking though about just getting a barrel and comp for my G23 and going for Open Div. Are there magwells for the compact Glocks?

[theWacoKid]

... You've got me thinking though about just getting a barrel and comp for my G23 and going for Open Div. Are there magwells for the compact Glocks?

I really like the Carver magwells on my Glocks. I have a black one for a 3rd gen 23/19 that I'm willing to part with.

http://w.iwebcenters.com/bbenterprise2/ecommerce/custom-magwells-glock-xd-xdm/custom-glock-magwells.cfm

Heck I also have a black LW threaded barrel for a 23 I'm not using.

Edited September 27, 2015 by theWacoKid

[JoeyMac]

Interesting thought JoeyMac, but I think no one will know unless there has been some experimentation done. A G23 with threaded barrel would give about a 4.5 inch length, not too terribly short. I cut my G23 for an RMR and am playing in Carry Optics currently. My current plans to go to an Open gun involve a G22 which means cutting another slide and getting another optic. I would run it on the frame that I already have setup for Limited with magwell, etc. You've got me thinking though about just getting a barrel and comp for my G23 and going for Open Div. Are there magwells for the compact Glocks?

Sorry, yeah 4.5" would be the actual length. I think threaded G22 and G35 based guns come in around 5" and 5.8" so it's still a hair shorter than those. As mentioned above, there's those Carver G19/G23 comps. That was my planned route. They give the extra length for the full-hand grip too and should install on & off easily to cross divisions if you wanted. A Lone Wolf barrel with GT hole is pretty cheap and Carver makes comps threaded for LW barrels already. Well, if you do it, let me know. I'd be interested to know if there was an appreciable difference. My biggest concern is reliability given the shorter action and all.

I'm sort of in a different boat. I already have a G35 completely set up for limited (magwell, thumb rest, good trigger, etc).... so reusing my G35 frame with an open upper saves me about $600 over having to buy and set up another frame just to put together a Limited gun. But if a G23 based Open gun offered an advantage, I'd be interested in having something a bit different, haha.

Edited September 28, 2015 by JoeyMac

[splashdown]

I've decided to try the Shorty Forty concept with my G23 Carry Optics gun. A 4.5" barrel isn't all that different than the 5.0" that I used to run. I'm going to pick up the magwell and barrel from the Waco kid and try it out. Going to get a Carver 4 port comp to go with it I think. For the rest of the year I am going to continue shooting Carry Optics so as to "vote" for keeping it as a permanent division by participating until the next BOD meeting. I have been planning on going open for quite a while, but took a detour down the Carry Optics route when it was announced.

I've made 10 rounds each of some test loads already using CFE Pistol and Power Pistol behind Rainier Ballistics 135gr. Not going to win any national titles, but it will be fun!

Edited October 17, 2015 by splashdown

[splashdown]

Rare, but not the first... Shorty Forty Open Gun! I'm back into the 40 Open club!

This is a G23 with a LW threaded barrel and Carver magwell, reduced power recoil assembly and 4 port comp. The 170mm mag is a 22-round factory mag with a Taylor Freelance +3 base pad.

I have not fired it yet because the comp touches the slide. I need to have someone take a few thousanths off the back of the comp. Then I get to start testing some loads that I have made up using Rainier Ballistics 135gr FP's. I will be testing Hodgdon CFE Pistol and Alliant Power Pistol.

I'd really like to add a thumbrest, but I don't want to do any mods that would make it illegal for Carry Optics. Also, I'm not sure that my Safariland 014 holster has any clearance for a thumbrest.

Thanks to TheWacoKid for selling me some of these parts.

[Rudukai13]

Larry, are you planning to use the G23 for Open and CO divisions? Are you still planning to build a dedicated Open .40 Glock at some point in the future?

[splashdown]

Yes, this gun is still a CO legal pistol. No illegal mods were made to the slide or frame. I will shoot this for a while and get it tuned up first. Someday I'll build a dedicated Open top end with a G22 slide with all sorts of cuts and put it on my current Limited frame.

[Rudukai13]

Is your decision to use a slide mounted optic as opposed to frame mounted informed by your want to be able to use one frame for multiple divisions?

What're your thoughts in general on slide vs frame mounted optics?

Sorry for all the questions, just intellectual curiosity!

[splashdown]

Initially I planned to go with slide mounted because I just wanted to use my standard kydex holster. (Now I have a Safariland 014 that I got a good deal on.) Then Carry Optics provisional came along and I already had the optic, so I had it installed into the gun I typically use for production, the G23 shown above. Ultimately, I do plan to switch back and forth between Open and CO. I've shot open guns with both frame and slide mounted optics. As long as the gun shoots flat, I don't think there's a difference for me at my skill level. I can find the dot faster with it mounted low, so I like slide mounted better right now.

[busdriver02]

Larry, have you shot the short .40 yet?

I've been playing around with a comp on a XD 5.25 .40, and haven't been super thrilled with it compared to the "proper" open gun I have. On a whim, I ran some quickload simulations last night on a much shorter barrel (as if I had an XDm 3.8, so a 4.3 inch barrel once extended and threaded) and the muzzle pressure numbers were much higher. While not surprising, what was interesting was that the ratio of muzzle pressure to charge weight on the shorty .40 (155g bullet at 1.135) was basically the same as a 5.2 in barreled 9mm (124g bullet at 1.175).

[ChuckS]

Larry, have you shot the short .40 yet?

I've been playing around with a comp on a XD 5.25 .40, and haven't been super thrilled with it compared to the "proper" open gun I have. On a whim, I ran some quickload simulations last night on a much shorter barrel (as if I had an XDm 3.8, so a 4.3 inch barrel once extended and threaded) and the muzzle pressure numbers were much higher. While not surprising, what was interesting was that the ratio of muzzle pressure to charge weight on the shorty .40 (155g bullet at 1.135) was basically the same as a 5.2 in barreled 9mm (124g bullet at 1.175).

Try a 135 grain bullet. You will find it closer to what you are used to.

[busdriver02]

Try a 135 grain bullet. You will find it closer to what you are used to.

They did seem closer, but didn't group well. I screwed up the barrel fit so I put the whole thing on hold till I got a new barrel, which I haven't shot yet.

[splashdown]

Have not shot it yet. Planning to chrono some loads this Sunday if the weather is decent and film it for power factor show.

I've got three different charge weights made up with CFE Pistol and two more charge weights with Power Pistol. All using Rainier Ballistics 135gr FP and loaded to 1.135" COL. Hoping for major.

[Hello]

Off to build my open 10mm or .40 Major?

[splashdown]

Shot the G23 shorty forty today over the chrono. Had a couple loads make major, but results are mixed and more testing is definitely needed.

The comp is not matched to the load all that well. By that, I mean that there was too much muzzle flip and too much gas going out the end of the comp. It was quite a thumper too! The entire gun only weighs 28oz. Launching Rainier 135's at major power hits you in the hand pretty good!

[splashdown]

Experiences so far with my G23 Open gun:

First shots were over chrono with five loads that I was testing for power factor. Gun short stroked ~40% of the time causing Failure to Extract/Eject malfunctions. I later figured out that the recoil spring was heavier than stock. Recoil was stout with all five loads as described in my previous posts.

Replaced recoil spring with 13 lb ISMI spring for a compact gun.

Second time out, I shot an indoor outlaw match with three stages. First observation - the dual illuminated RMR was not very bright at the indoor range where lighting is angled and almost never directly overhead.

Started Stage 1 with a minor load using 135gr Rainier and Ramshot Competition. This is my production/carry optics load. It was soft shooting, but the gun short stroked twice in a 24 round stage, failing to eject/extract. One failure was shooting Strong hand only, the other Weak hand only.

Stage 2 used 1/2 scale targets and a plate rack. We were given the option of shooting from a closer line Strong hand only, or shooting further back freestyle. I chose to shoot further back because there was good lighting directly overhead. I could see the dot much better. Again with the minor load the gun short stroked, FTE 6 times on a 24 round stage.

Stage 3 gave us 32 paper plates to shoot at with a 10 second time limit. I chose to run a new load that should be about Major PF, but I have not shot it over a chrono yet. The load used 155gr Hornady XTP (the only 155's I currently have available) and Hodgdon CFE Pistol powder. Using my 25 round big stick the gun functioned flawlessly allowing me to draw and fire 25 rounds in 8.25 seconds. I hadn't planned to reload, so I didn't even attempt one. The recoil did not feel nearly as harsh as the 135gr loads I tested before and video confirms that the gun shot pretty flat. Again, shooting was from a location of bad lighting so I did not track the dot too well.

Basically, the moral of the story is that this gun and comp (and the nut behind the trigger) may like 155gr bullets better. Time to get some 155 Rainier's and do more testing!

Edited January 2, 2016 by splashdown

[NMinzghor]

New JPL 40 Open gun. Switching from a sideways mount so I'll have some learning curve. Starting with the same load as my other SV 40 Open - 8.5 Longshot with 135gr Nosler @ 1.155. Picking it up this week and running some rounds through it.

[splashdown]

Nice!

You convinced JPL to build a 40 Open gun? I'm sure my name came up more than a few times.

[pbc44]

Hey Chuck, one quick question. What # recoil spring were you using on your open 40 with 135 gr. BBs. Are you shooting Mesa this week?

Pete