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40 Open

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To date there have been 13 people vote for 40 in G-Man's poll, "What caliber is your open gun?"

I know there have been a few threads in the past, but I'd like this to be a place for us all to come together to compose a shapshot to answer the who, what, where, when, why, and how's. So, some questions, then I'll answer myself:

When did you start shooting open? Was 40 your first caliber in open? Why did you choose 40?

What make is your gun? Who built it? What barrel length, comp and optic are you using?

Do you run a big stick, and what capacity are you getting?

What have you settled on for a load?

What's your open classification?

Where do you live?

My answers:

I had a limited gun and put a 6" top end on it with the idea I'd reuse the 5" top end someday for an open gun. After finding little bits of information scattered all over this forum I decided to go for it. I primarily chose the 40 for financial reasons. I had the major components that were already fit to my frame. I get to use the same mags and dies in the press as my limited gun. In the end, I saved a few thousand dollars by going with 40. If I had the money, I would've gone 9mm, but i'm doing this on a poor man's budget.

I decided to have Gary Natale (gansguns) do my 40 top end. I just received it back from him this week and haven't shot it yet. I decided on his Model 5 comp with bleeders in the last two chambers. I thought it looked cool and he said it would work fine. My optic of choice was the Trijicon MS03, 8 MOA dot with a JV Dynamics frame mount. I chose the Trijicon to keep the dot low (don't like the high up C-more) and for it's lifetime warranty. Pics can be found in the gallery.

I'm interested to find out who the rest of you are, mainly just to learn more about it because I'm so new to "the dark side."

Thanks,

splash

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I'll be back later when I have more time. I would like to add to the thread this request to participants:

Please do not bother to tell us why what we do is a bad thing. Just sit back and enjoy our foolishness. :cheers:

Later,

chuck

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When did you start shooting open? Was 40 your first caliber in open? Why did you choose 40?

What make is your gun? Who built it? What barrel length, comp and optic are you using?

Do you run a big stick, and what capacity are you getting?

What have you settled on for a load?

What's your open classification?

Where do you live[/guote]

Wow, almost my exact story. I built a 6" top end to replace the 5. I threw the 5 in the safe and just recently decided to build up an open topend. I want to shoot open at the Pro-Am as well as Limited.

STI frame. I'm building it (although i'm having the barrel threaded and comp reamed by Steve Rose). I shortened the barrel by .400" and reduced the diameter of my original 5" bull barrel to accept a cone comp (EGW). I chopped off the slide a bit to match the shorter barrel (guess how).

Aimpoint CompSD sitting in a Weigand double sided tube mount (not rail, and no longer available so I bought two).

Big stick holds 26.

Load will be my limited load but with a .2 grains more powder. 5.2g Universal Clays, 1.180 OAL. It's a slow powder.

I've never shot an Open classifier, actually I've never even shot an open gun.

I live in the Bluegrass state.

I have $220 in the optic and mount, $100 or so in the comp, will have to spend a few dollars to have the barrel threaded and $60 for the big stick.

Down the road I'll probably buy another frame for my 6" top end and have both guns complete but for now they get to share.

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I'll be back later when I have more time. I would like to add to the thread this request to participants:

Please do not bother to tell us why what we do is a bad thing. Just sit back and enjoy our foolishness. :cheers:

Later,

chuck

I wouldn't tell you it's a bad thing. Silly maybe, but not bad :roflol:

Seriously, I'm interested to see the hows and whys people post on this as well...sort of along the lines of why I started the poll. R,

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When did you start shooting open?

I started in 1988 when there was only one division

Was 40 your first caliber in open?

Started with a 9mm, then a 45 to a 38 Super and the 40 S&W right about the time the cartridge was announce. Had a little inside info.

Why did you choose 40?

Initially cause I could not get my gun to run in 10mm reliably and I had know about the Centimeter, but the commercial 40 s&w made so much more sense

What make is your gun?

I initially started with a Colt Delta Elite and then upgraded the frame to a Caspian Hi-Cap

Who built it?

With the exception of the barrel installation which, was done by Bar-Sto everything else was pretty much installed by myself.

What barrel length, comp and optic are you using?

It was 5", started with a Two Port Plaxco comp then had a 3 port wide front side baffles installed by a Gunsmith friend T Face in CA when I was living there. Started with a Tasco, then a Holosight and then a C-More

Do you run a big stick, and what capacity are you getting?

Big stick gets 25 rds

What have you settled on for a load?

Used HS-6/WW540 pushing a Nosler 135gr JHP Last match shot had a PF of 186 and won my class

What's your open classification?

B

Where do you live?

VA

I retired this open gun back in 2004 after shooting her for 12 years on the hi-cap frame, still the best open gun I ever had. Going to 9Major in 2004 has done nothing to improve my performance. I am and have been contemplating building another .40 Open.

Alan

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I think I've posted this info somewhere else on the forum but I like talking .40 Open so here goes....

My first Open gun was a .45 SS built on a Springfield Armory "complete kit" that I traded my Hi Power to a friend for when they first came out and you could get one for $200.00 This is only to show how long I've been playing.

My .40 Open was built when IPSC/USPSA considered going to .40 caliber as minimum for Open in light of unramped barrels/175 PF/light bullet blow-ups in .38 Super and then 9 Major. Built on a Para gunsmith frame with a Centaur Systems bull/comped barrel system with the shims and roll pin in the slide stop to adjust lock-up and their own captive recoil spring and guide that didn't require slide modification. Dual port (upward facing) comp. This barrel was unramped, and throated like a .45 but I never had any blowouts with it. Loaded long as Para advertised their mags as 10mm mags. I bought twelve of them before the mag ban. It wore Bomars for most of it's life and I made B Open with it. I later added an EGW 7 port comp and an Aimpoint Comp...I was like the last guy in our club to go to a red dot. Two Aimpoints later I stuck on a Tasco PDP5 on a Weigand mount and that's how it's configured now. The EGW comp works relatively well but with Centaur long out of business I haven't been able to find replacement recoil springs and to make the original system work I end up cutting off way too many coils. So I'll probably have to modify the slide for a shouldered plug and guide set-up. I don' shoot her too often anymore as the Caspian slide that used to be so tight has loosened considerably, the slide lightening I did (read: mangled) affected the reliability (spring problems) and the Guncraft weld on magwell which was so trick long ago seems woefully inadequate now compared to the gargantuan ones I have on my STI's. She still has the best trigger job I ever did even though it's not that light (2.5) which is a tribute more to the way parts used to be made (Chip's original Ti Hammers and A-6 sears, Al Marvel OS pins). I do have a Clark mount that has the Weigand hole pattern that I'm figuring on changing after she goes to Doug Jones for Accu-railing after he stops sniggering. While she's there he can cut the Clark style ramp too. Then a Schuemann AET Hybricomp barrel (or two, one in .40 one in .357 Sig) and she'll ride again.

Favorite load was 7.3 grains of the old Winchester Super Field (not WSF) under a 155 gr Hornady XTP over Winchester or Federal primers. 135 gr bullets were too short to be loaded long and not so safe in an unramped barrel. Later on, WAP at 7.0 grains shot softer, though just as dirty.

Since I live in Hawai'i where we're Everything-10, magazine capacity is a non issue although we're allowed to block our hi-caps to ten rather than have to use factory ten rounders which makes for better reliability and durability.

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When did you start shooting open? Not quit 2 years ago.

Was 40 your first caliber in open? Yep

Why did you choose 40? Didn't want to dump alot of money in a dedicated open gun (new gun, mags, dies, etc.) I just wanted to have fun shooting open since I only do about 2 majors a year.

What make is your gun? STI

Who built it? Gary at gansguns built a new top end for it. Really good guy.

What barrel length, comp and optic are you using? 5in, bedell, c-more w/barry mount

Do you run a big stick, and what capacity are you getting? 25+1

What have you settled on for a load? Got a couple based on what I can get at the time. 135 rainer FP @1.175, 8.9 longshot, 8.6 power pistol, 8.7 vv350 All pretty good, longshot really irritates RO's (loud), and PP put on a decent light show.

What's your open classification? B

Where do you live? SC

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When did you start shooting open? Late 2003

Was 40 your first caliber in open? Yes

Why did you choose 40? I had a couple limited guns in .40, mags in .40 and since I live in Ca, mags are an issue. This was just after 9mm major was given the nod and it was still scaring folks back then.

What make is your gun? Para frames and STI slides

Who built it? Wil OHara, Corona, Ca

What barrel length, comp and optic are you using? 6 in Tribrid II with a 5" slide on one and 5" Kart with an EGW 8 chamber in the other. Bevenized Docter on both.

Do you run a big stick, and what capacity are you getting? 26+1 and 27+1

What have you settled on for a load? Started out with N-350 and then tried N-340 with a 135 gr bullet. 350 didn't burn completely. Tried Silhouette and it worked well but still did not quite burn fully. So, back to N-340 with Rainier 135 gr or Nosler 135 JHP. Using about 8.1 - 8.2 gr for +175.

What's your open classification? B

Where do you live? SoCal

Later,

Chuck

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My 40 is my back up gun, Splash you know my story.

It's Reliable

Its freaking sweet

And only wussies are afraid to do a mag change.

Tony Kidd built it

Easy to make major and is soft shooting

Perfect PIN caliber

A little about myself:

I'm 20, a Taurus, and I love chicken and long walks on the beach.

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Thanks for the details guys. Chuck was right on the money with his first comment. No Bashing us 40 guys. You can just sit back and shake your heads.

Let's get more details on how you're getting your mag capacity. I've got a stock STI tube with Gram's internals and 4mm pad and I'm getting 25+1. It needs a couple strokes with the file to get it to fit the gauge, but it's basically there.

Mine was a Tribrid AET "sight tracker" style barrel that was turned down to accept the cone comp. As you can see, it's got 4 chambers with bleeders in the last two.

I'm unclassified right now. I've only fired a handfull of rounds through a couple of open guns, both with C-Mores. Finding the dot was difficult after several rapid shots. The dot on my gun is found easily when indexing normally in dry fire. This will be an interesting season for me.

And don't forget pictures! Here's mine:

Leone40openL.jpg

Leone40openR.jpg

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I started shooting in 1987 in NC with a pawnshop 45 and a drop in comp kit. I shot it for a couple years and had to quit shooting because of a lack of free time.(Marines) I started again in around 1990 to 93 with a tanfoilio in 40 with a aim point. I started again last year with a g-17 and for Christmas I picked up a g35. I am thinking hard on buying a sjc stealth, an open gun built on a g35. I have 2 aimpoint comps on my shelf that I would like to use even though the one I'm looking at has a c-more. I don't have any ambitions of being a national champion, i am currently a "B" and I have ambitions of being an "A" I am entirely self taught except this year I bought Brian Enos's book and this spring I signed up for 2 classes offered by 2 GM's

I can go with either 9x19 or a 40 open Glock but I think I am going with a 40

scotteb8.th.jpg

Edited by rupie

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When did you start shooting open? 2008 Was 40 your first caliber in open? Yep Why did you choose 40?

It's what I got. What make is your gun? Glock G35 Who built it? SJC built the conversion. What barrel length, comp and optic are you using? 5-3/8", SJC 5 port and a Burris FastFire

Do you run a big stick, Sort of :) and what capacity are you getting? 23+1

What have you settled on for a load? 180gr Zero JHP and Clays

What's your open classification? "U" :angry:

Where do you live? Arizona

post-1015-1232720515_thumb.jpg

Jim

Edited by JimmyM

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What have you settled on for a load? 180gr Zero JHP and Clays

Jim

:o40 & CLAYS AT OPEN PRESSURES? :o

BE CAREFUL!

ETA: I want to think that the SJC barrel has better support than the OEM tube... Right?

Edited by Nemo

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:o40 & CLAYS AT OPEN PRESSURES? :o

40 with clays and a 180 is just like anyone's limited load. Not that crazy.

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What have you settled on for a load? 180gr Zero JHP and Clays

Jim

:o40 & CLAYS AT OPEN PRESSURES? :o

BE CAREFUL!

ETA: I want to think that the SJC barrel has better support than the OEM tube... Right?

Current (meaning within the last 15yrs or so) Glock barrels have pretty much the same amount of support as high end custom barrels so it shouldn't be an issue. I've linked to this pic before....I need to retake this picture with the new camera and proper lighting but it gets the point across....almost an identical amount of support on the stock Glock barrel (G22) when compared with a new Schuemann Classic AET .40. I'd have to check to be exact, but I bought the Glock this barrel is in back in 94 or 95.

More importantly, I'd think that a slower powder, and more of it, would work the comp a lot better on that SJC setup.

P1010025.jpg

Edited by G-ManBart

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What have you settled on for a load? 180gr Zero JHP and Clays

Jim

:o40 & CLAYS AT OPEN PRESSURES? :o

BE CAREFUL!

ETA: I want to think that the SJC barrel has better support than the OEM tube... Right?

:) It's my everyday limited load. And the one recommended by SJC to use in their conversion. It's.....soft. Have not found a light bullet and slow powder load for this configuration that I like, yet. My poofy Limited major .40 in this thing feels like cheating. Ridicules.

Jim

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I just made up 200 rounds of my first open load. 9.0 gr Silhouette and a 140 gr Bear Creek Moly Bullet at 1.170" COL. I got a few Nosler 135 gr JHP's to try as well (thanks Howard). For now, I'm going to see just how bad leading can be in the comp. I've read that some people practice with straight lead in their open guns so I'm willing to give the moly bullets a go. I'd like to find a good source for the Rainier 135's so I can give them a try.

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What have you settled on for a load? 180gr Zero JHP and Clays

Jim

:o40 & CLAYS AT OPEN PRESSURES? :o

BE CAREFUL!

ETA: I want to think that the SJC barrel has better support than the OEM tube... Right?

:) It's my everyday limited load. And the one recommended by SJC to use in their conversion. It's.....soft. Have not found a light bullet and slow powder load for this configuration that I like, yet. My poofy Limited major .40 in this thing feels like cheating. Ridicules.

Jim

Open pressures, limited pressures, same same... takes the same amount of pressure (Clays) to get the 180 gn bullet to make major.

However, this load is for non-comped guns. If it feels good, do it, but I doubt you need a comp at all with that fast of a powder and that heavy of a bullet.

Been shooting open 40 for all of my short 5 year life in action shooting. mostly 3 gun now, but a local pistol match every weekend here in the Denver area.

I experimented alot, and had Bevin Grams on my speed dial (he shot a LOT of open 40). I have 3 open 40 pistols, and a Modified pistol (Modified Division is what I think we need to promote here in the USA, but that's another thread...) Finally settled on 155 gn bullets, (135s are too short to load to the proper length) and HS6 powder. Yea, VV would work too, as well as the other "traditional" open powders.

26 rounds is the best you are gonna get in a 170mm mag. usually 25.

Been doing 9mm lately, but one of the open 40s go on every trip to a match, and I do use it if when walking the stages I decide the 40 would be a better choice.

jj

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I have been using Rainier 135 gr for many years with excellent results. The OAL is in the 1.16-1.17 range. I looked at the Berrys a while back but due to the shape, there was less meat for the case and would have to be loaded shorter. And they did not group all that well.

Later,

Chuck

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The stock Glock barrel could have something to do with me not liking a lighter bullet slow powder load. I'll grab some 155's and pop the LWD barrel in. Keep hearing HS6. Tried Longshot...hated it. How's HS6 comparatively?

Jim

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Haven't tried Longshot, might be worth giving it a go, but it is about 12 positions slower than HS6 on the burnrate chart I have, down in the N350, AA#7 range. HS6 is dirtier in my 40s than my 9mm, and you will see some unburnt powder in 40. Tried HS7 (before it was discontinued) and it was worse. HS7 is down near Longshot as well on the burnrate chart. 3N37 vs 3N38 seemed to be kinda the same problem...

the Rainer 135s were just a pain for me, not very uniform in length/weight, horrible accuracy, and I found the flat nosed bullets didn't feed as well as the round nose 155s. Shot the Berry hollow base round nose 155s for awhile, but then they got stupid with the price. Then I found that Montana Gold was making 155 RNs, tried em and loved em, been using them and haven't looked back. The 135s were a bit more snappy (read; muzzle rise) and seemed to have more recoil than the 155s. I think there is a point where you can get TOO light of a bullet and have to have TOO much powder, and the 135s were over the line for me. Same for 9mm, 115s are too light, 124s, just right!

So I settled on a medium/slow powder, and a medium/lite bullet, not near the extreme but leaning off of center quite a ways... :wacko:

jj

edit; in a Para or STI frame, I found 1.185 to be the optimum OAL, not easily obtainable with a 135 bullet. Glocks of course will be shorter.

Edited by RiggerJJ

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Tried out the 40 open gun today. The load worked out great. When sighting in the dot leaves the lens, but in action shooting mode, it returns pretty quick for splits and transitions. I'm having some trouble adjusting the elevation, but the windage is right on. I'm going to shim it some to see if that will get me on target.

Now, where do I sign up for the cookies?

And some more good news, my buddy Albert picked up the .38 super shorty w/ slide mounted Docter that's been in the classifieds. That gun is pretty sweet. Atta boy, Albert :cheers:

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